Turns of Democracy in Peril - Page 2

johndmuller · August 13, 2001, 17:54

I've analyzed the tech tree a bit on the assumption that we are interested in Fusion, Air Power & Derestricting and it looks like we should be researching somewhat along these lines at the moment:
- Social Psych / Doc: Loyalty & Ethical Calc / Gene Splicing & Intel Integrity
- Applied Physics / PolyMorph SW & Hi Energy Chem & Doc Flex / Op Comps & Adaptive Doc & Econ
As you know, the tech tree is perilous and I wouldn't claim to be an expert, but it looks to me that Social Psych / Ethical Calc is important to a lot of paths, so I would suggest we treat that as high priority. Applied Physics and Doc Loyalty are also reasonably timely.

TMS, it looks like you should do Ethical Calc next as you are doing the prereq; that path continues with Intel Integrity (on the way to Fusion) and Gene Splicing on the way to Doc: Air Power and the restrictions).

Darius, Doc Loyalty is a bit more on the critical path is Doc Flex; if you can switch without losing accumulated techs or getting your tech cost recomputed, it might be worth it; if it looks like a bad idea, thats cool - think about doing Progen Psych next, then Adaptive Econ on the Doc: Air Power track.

I will be through with Intustrial Auto in a few turns and will probably research PolyMorphic S'Ware or Applied Physics (perhaps Doc Loyalty if Darius can't switch or Doc: Flex if he can); I could instead double TMS on Social Psych and then switch to Ethical Calculus when he is done and gives Soc Psy to me (leaving him to do Applied Phys, PolyM SW,or Doc Loyalty/Flex.

Googlie · August 13, 2001, 18:15

In PBEMs, you can turn over control of a unit to a pactmate - must be in a pactmate's base. (to anyone, actually, but as it must be in a base only works with pactmates). Have it activated (flashing), then hit ctl+shift+U, and you'll be prompted "Are you sure you want to turn over control to faction xxx?" or something like that. Hit 'OK', and its done

G.

Tai Mai Shu · August 13, 2001, 21:44

You're forgetting about clean reactors, we'll need secrets of the human brain and also neural grafting and then Bioengineering for that.

Bio-engineering is a critical tech too and will come sooner than fusion power will.

MY 2124 to Darius

johndmuller · August 14, 2001, 00:08

Absolutely, TMS, and the Neural Grafting also goes for MMI. That path to Clean et al seems to be pretty straight forward - without the critical path problems of the others, good stuff to research if/when the critical path elements are not offered or are otherwise under control.

Darius · August 14, 2001, 08:02

Quote:

Originally posted by johndmuller
Darius, Doc Loyalty is a bit more on the critical path is Doc Flex; if you can switch without losing accumulated techs or getting your tech cost recomputed, it might be worth it; if it looks like a bad idea, thats cool - think about doing Progen Psych next, then Adaptive Econ on the Doc: Air Power track.

Maybe I'm cracking up, but on my chart, Progenitor Psych and Adaptive Economics are NOT on the path to Doc:Air Power, but Doc:Flexibility is one of the direct prerequisites to Doc:Air Power. I couldn't switch out of flex without losing 1-2 turns so I stayed with it, but again, I think that is the right thing to do to get to Air Power.

Turn to jdm.

Darius

johndmuller · August 14, 2001, 11:45

MY 2125 to Tai Mai Shu - Peacekeepers

No Darius, you're not cracking up; I thought that looked a little strange too, but I persisted in misreading

the #$%&^! chart (I think that they skimped on the Graphic Artist budget when they converted the SMAC Chart to SMAX).

So, my current take on it is that in the short run, aside from what we are already working on, I've got 4 techs in the most critical category and 2 more in the next most critical batch, based on the various goals we've mentioned (Air Power, Fusion, Restrictions, BioEngineering/MMI); they are:
--Most Critical: Applied Physics, Doc: Loyalty, Ethical Calculus & Polymorphic Software;
--Next Most Critical: High Energy Chemistry & Secrets of the Human Brain.

If we toss in NonLinear along the way, we can also research SuperString (Chaos) after we get Cyberethics without needing any other prereqs. We do have a some work to do though; I think we need a bit over 20 more techs to get that stuff.

I'm thinking that we could specialize a little at this point and hold a few less techs (and associated Tech Cost penalty). There is a bunch of techs that are mostly free of interlocks with the others - Applied Physics, Hi Energy Chem, Polymorphic SW, Optical Computers &Superconductors, also Adaptive Doc, Advanced Military Algorithms and (optionally) NonLinear Math. Darius?

Pleased let me know of the latest flaws in my reading of the charts and any favorite paths you want to follow.
John

Darius · August 14, 2001, 14:50

Here are the prerequisites for each of the four stated goals (air power, restriction lifting, clean reactor, and fusion power). We already have the blue ones. Red ones are needed for more than one of the goals.

Air Power
Industrial Base
Biogenetics
Doctrine: Mobility
Social Psych (TMS researching now)
Doctrine: Flexibility (Darius researching now)
Ethical Calculus
Gene Splicing
Applied Physics
High Energy Chemistry
Synthetic Fossil Fuels
Doctrine: Air Power

Elimination of Restrictions
Industrial Base
Biogenetics
Centauri Ecology
Industrial Economics
Social Psych (TMS researching now)
Ethical Calculus
Gene Splicing
Ecological Engineering
Environmental Economics

Clean Reactor
Biogenetics
Information Networks
Planetary Networks
Industrial Economics
Industrial Automation (JDM researching now)
Social Psych (TMS researching now)
Gene Splicing
Secrets of the Human Brain
Neural Grafting
Bio-Engineering

Fusion Power
Industrial Base
Information Networks
Doctrine:Mobility
Planetary Networks
Social Psych (TMS researching now)
Doctrine: Flexibility (Darius researching now)
Ethical Calculus
Polymorphic Software
Doctrine: Loyalty
Optical Computers
Adaptive Doctrine
Intellectual Integrity
Superconductor
Advanced Military Algorithms
Cyberethics
Pre-Sentient Algorithms
Fusion Power

Based on this analysis, I suggest that we work toward the first three goals listed above. Fusion power will take longer. We should research the red techs first, as they enable more than one goal at a time. I suspect that we cannot each pick one list without sharing, but my brain hurts and I have to get back to work. What do you guys think?

Darius

johndmuller · August 14, 2001, 18:13

I'm thinking that Fusion is the most important one (for offense and defense too). Do we really want to bother with Fission Choppers and paying to upgrade stuff after only a dozen years or so or do you think that its worth it? I'll go along with the majority, but I would suggest the strategy in the paragraph below.

I attached a Word document which (if it doesn't get reformatted to badly) shows the research paths. You'll notice that there are several paths with no slack in them (2 in Fusion - (1)PolyM SW to Fusion via Present Alg, and (2)Soc Psych to Fusion diagonally from lower right; and 1 in Air Power/MMI - Soc Psych thru Gene Splicing to Air Power & MMI); I think that we should try to make sure we are researching the techs in those critical path elements whenever possible, otherwise we may find ourselves waiting on them later. Its not a great chart, but once you figure it out, it works pretty well for visualizing the critical paths.

The path to Bioengineering is largely independent and the restriction lifting tech fork off the path to Air Power - we already have their other prereqs.

The path I suggested for Darius in my previous post is taken from the left sides of the two charts; its main advantage is that if one person does them, they wouldn't have to have any of the techs on the right side or the center unless they needed them for some infrastructure or unit in their own faction. Thats why I thought of Darius since he may be able to operate without Social Psych whereas I definitely can't; that, and the fact that the Conquer stuff starts over there and Darius' industry suggests he build a lot of war stuff. Those aren't terriblly good reasons, as we will probably each want Soc Psych and at least some military techs, so that group would be fair game for anyone. I do think however, that it makes sense to isolate that set of techs for Tech Cost reasons.

I'm almost finished a Net Node, hope to build another 1 or 2 soon; hope you all do too.

johndmuller · August 14, 2001, 18:16

Here's the attachment (I hope; it didn't work last time)

Darius · August 15, 2001, 11:26

Sorry, I don't understand your chart.

I think we're trying to think too much. It's starting to spoil the fun. I'm just going to forge ahead and not worry so much about squeezing every last research point out of the tech tree. I don't have any problem with your suggestion that I concentrate on the military techs and will try to do so, but if something else looks important to me when my turn comes up, I might just go for it. I still think that Ethical Calculus and Gene Splicing are especially important right now since they enable multiple paths.

Regarding fission jets/choppers, it depends on the timing, but it could very well be worthwile to build a few fission units before fusion becomes available. We'll have to see how it goes.

Hey, did TMS go on vacation or something?

Darius

Tai Mai Shu · August 16, 2001, 23:18

Sorry, DSL went down so I wasn't able to get to the internet. I'll be able to play my turn later tonight.

Tai Mai Shu · August 17, 2001, 01:39

Hey John, could you send the turn again? I accidentally deleted the email after trying to clear out the 2 pages of junk mail in my email account :/

Darius · August 17, 2001, 07:39

Turn to JDM.

Turns out that TMS and I are on the same landmass. The CC is very close, but I'm not sure if they are connected or on a separate island. I have a Unity transport in a good position to explore, but I don't want to accidentally make contact.

We should get some foil probes ready to infiltrate all factions as soon as we get flex.

Darius

johndmuller · August 17, 2001, 12:57

MY 2126 to Tai Mai Shu - Peacekeepers (I guess you were able to recover/find the turn)

I have some other land off my east coast; I don't know if it is a continent or just a small or medium island; whether it is inhabited or not (don't have any units on board my Unity foil to accelerate investigation). Darius, what do you think the consequences are to contacting the enemy; do you think they will home in on whatever direction the see us; change their production profile to something we would like less; some other thing?

I am currently planning to research Social Psych (duplicating TMS, who can give it to me when he finishes - at which point I will switch to Ethical Calculus) when I finish Ind Auto in 2128. Just in case the program offers me unsatisfactory choices, it would be good if Darius offers me Doc: Mob so that I have it available in 2128 - I believe that means offering it to me not this turn, but the following one. I presume that the year changes sometime after the Drones turn so that would be 2127 at that point from Drones' perspective.

Tai Mai Shu · August 17, 2001, 14:17

MY 2126 to Darius.

Btw, if and when we contact the enemy, basically they'll just declare vendetta right away, and that means they'll change production to pure wartime effort. While it's a semi good thing in that they're probably going to waste much of their minerals in support costs, it's also going to tie up our own industries with the creation of military units to defend our bases.

Also, when they get Doc: flex, we'll have our hands full keeping transports off our land and such. Preferably I'd like to make contact only after we have a chance to set up preliminary defenses and such. I don't feel the time for contact is right right now.

johndmuller · August 18, 2001, 01:33

MY 2127 to Tai Mai Shu - Peacekeepers

Darius · August 18, 2001, 14:53

2128 to JDM.

I agree - we should postpone contact until we get our empires running efficiently and some military in place.

Darius

johndmuller · August 18, 2001, 20:51

MY 2128 to Tai Mai Shu - Peacekeepers

Got Ind Auto and offered it to TMS - Would have offered it to you too Darius, but the fickle finger clicked on "end turn" instead of "communications". Will offer it next time unless you tell me that you don't want it either because you've already gotten it from TMS or just don't it yet. My tech cost went up to 162 if you all want an idea of what to expect - am now doing Social Psych prepratory to switching to Ethical Calc when TMS gives me Soc Psych. Will not intentionally provoke our ex Unity buds.

johndmuller · August 21, 2001, 01:21

MY 2129 to Tai Mai Shu - Peacekeepers

TMS, How come you're researching Ethical Calc too, are you trying to make it more "interesting" or something?

Tai Mai Shu · August 22, 2001, 20:09

Could you resend the turn please? I think I accidentally deleted it in the 229

messages I got from sales lists and email spam and such.

Btw, I'm researching Ethical Calc because I thought you wanted it. It's not too late to switch, will only cost me an extra turn to get something else.

johndmuller · August 22, 2001, 23:36

Resent.

Tai Mai Shu · August 23, 2001, 00:38

Uhm, so should I switch to something else?

johndmuller · August 23, 2001, 02:16

TMS, if it doesn't cost you anything, then maybe switch to preferably (IMhO) either Doc: Loyalty or PolyM SW; Applied Physics would be OK too. If it does cost, then we just need to be careful that whoever discovers Eth Calc first makes sure to offer it that very turn as it is quite possible that we will discover it in succession. Last I recall, you were scheduled to get it first, just before my turn, but it could change as things happen either to reverse the order or give us a bit more breathing space.

Tai Mai Shu · August 23, 2001, 06:33

Well, since we're not going to both discover Ethical Calc on the same turn, it's not going to be a big problem. I think I'm going to finish two turns before you do so I could just give it to you and you can switch to something else.

turn sent to Darius

Darius · August 23, 2001, 21:03

I'm back home from my trip. Turn to JDM.

johndmuller · August 24, 2001, 12:40

MY 2130 to Tai Mai Shu - Peacekeepers

Tai Mai Shu · August 24, 2001, 17:35

Turn to Darius

johndmuller · August 25, 2001, 04:01

MY 2131 to Tai Mai Shu - Peacekeepers

Darius · August 25, 2001, 12:27

I finished Doc:Flex. I'll offer it next turn; you can refuse if you don't want it yet. I wasn't offered Applied Physics for my next tech. I'm doing Doc:Loyalty now.

Darius

Darius · August 25, 2001, 12:27

I finished Doc:Flex. I'll offer it next turn; you can refuse if you don't want it yet. I wasn't offered Applied Physics for my next tech. I'm doing Doc:Loyalty now.

Turn to jdm

Darius