Turns of Democracy in Peril - Page 5

knowhow2 · October 6, 2001, 19:50

turn to Darius

I'm almost through reading the first thread. Will start on the other one after posting this.

I just had a breakthrough: Ecological Engineering. Let me know if you want it. And now going for the enviromental economics.

A unknown probe landed northeast on my land when I ended my turn. I don't have any infantries nearby. But I did start to build 3 new probes at 3 different bases.

So the question I had about "cleaness" when it comes to the methods of for success. Are we allowed to play it dirty?

johndmuller · October 7, 2001, 00:54

MY 2151 turn to knowhow2

Knowhow2, Googlie recommended using the stockpile energy thing and upgraded crawlers as he considers the AI to be a real steamroller and figures that we would need to use all such things to have a chance. Personally, I don't really like the crawler upgrade trick although I haven't ruled out using it in this game. I don't like using the stockpile energy trick either, but I have used that sometimes in this game and I try not to have stuff in the queue after facilities [I really wish I had never heard of that one since I like to use the queues so I don't have to keep rethinking the same plans over and over again]. Do whatever you feel comfortable with although I would hope you don't have any really serious gimmicks available beyond the usual.

knowhow2 · October 7, 2001, 01:53

John,

well I wasn't actually referring to the game engineering part of the game (the trciks you mentioned for stockpile, upgrade), I was more thinking of the allowedness to use nervegas, nervestapling and such when the right moment arrise (preferable after repealing the UN chart) but there is however a morale question. We're suppose to be "the good guys" right? So methods such as those mentioned shouldn't really be avaible for us should they? We ARE the democracies in this world shouldn't we be a good example for the new world then? Anyway, about the stockpile thing: does it really work?, I'm using it but I can't really see the difference between using it and not. The crawaler upgrade thing I often use in SP games (haven't played a MP game long enough to get the chance to use it - I've played two so far = finished, the first I got eradicated after 20 or so years, the other I gave away after 60 or so years during the summer month and when I got bcak the game was over, playing the Cult stranded on an small island with almost nonexistent fungus didn't give much to research).

the time CET 8:00, still haven't received the turn yet. maybe msn and hotmail are having problem connecting?

knowhow2 · October 7, 2001, 07:15

John I still haven't received the turn from you. Please resent. I will also email you for notification.

Darius · October 7, 2001, 12:19

Personally, I don't have a problem with using nerve gas, expecially against the AI. It's all part of the game.

I'm not sure if I understand the stockpile energy bug, though.

johndmuller · October 7, 2001, 12:21

Knowhow2,

I resent the game turn; my e-mail has occasional periods of bad performance, but this one was partly my fault - I failed to notice that the first try got aborted in the middle of transmitting for some reason.

As to the morals question, I've been wondering the same thing, especially with respect to whether we should be "forcing" ourselves to run Democracy since it is, after all the name of the game. For my part, the thought of using Police

even crossed my mind at one point. I think TMS was running Demo, but I haven't looked recently. As to the nerve gas (and nukes) I don't have strong opinions; are the economic sanctions automatic, or can we get away with that stuff since we won't be making friends with the bad guys anyway?

knowhow2 · October 7, 2001, 14:36

turn to darius

maybe we should wait and see what Googlie has to say about this. But if we do decide to go through with it, then we should try to do our atrocities the same time so that we don't lose out on trade for to many years.

If we all commit a 10 year atrocity at the same time we will all three be sanctioned for 10 years simo but if we do it in succession then it would be 30 years of sanction (no trade income) that wouldn't be a good solution since we're talking about quite a some of cash here.

anyway, I destroyed that enemy probe it turns out to be the Cyborgs.

Darius · October 7, 2001, 15:38

"I've been wondering the same thing, especially with respect to whether we should be "forcing" ourselves to run Democracy since it is, after all the name of the game." I've never been interested in "role-playing" games where you limit yourself to what you think your faction leader would do. I want to have the full range of options open to me. I tend to mostly use Democracy anyway, but there are times when I want the flexibility to use other options. So I say anything goes as far as SE settings.

That may be a good idea about coordinating our atrocities, if we do use them. On the other hand, it may be beneficial for two of us to remain "sanction-free" and provide economic assistance to the player who does use the atrocity. And again, I don't see any problem with using atrocities, though it's another thing I just tend not to do because of the natural consequences.

Turn 2152 to John.

johndmuller · October 8, 2001, 12:31

MY 2152 turn to Commissioner Knowhow2 of the Olive Branch.

I started on the Virtual World SP, although I expect to be beaten by the AI (and then switch to the Merchantile Exchange); I don't really think that the AI looks at what humans are building and tries to beat them, but if so, my Merch. would be protected - not that I would mind the VW either. If either of you gets intelligence on the AI's schedule for the VW, please advertise it.

Gents, I'll be getting Neural Grafting (2 abilities and BioEnhance Center) next turn (2153); let me know if/when you want it. I will likely go for PolyM SWare (on the way to Fusion) next, although BioEngin (Clean) may distract me or Darius talk me into SynthFuels (see below).

I you would each be so kind as to offer me your techs this turn, I would appreciate them. I plan to accept them after I get the tech breakthrough so as not to unnecessarily increase my tech cost.

Darius, if you think that it would be better for us if I duplicated your research on SynthFossFuels, now (before I open my next turn) would be the time to convince me - you would also need to give me only HiEnergyChem (notwithstanding my note in the game) so that I could accept that at first (before I finish/start techs). At present, my tech rate is better than yours and after including HiEngChem would have, I think, the same number of techs as you had when you started (plus the effect of any tech cost penalty you may be getting for your faction), so that I would probably be finishing it sooner leaving you with a big installment on Air Power (which then would be finished on your current SynthFuels timetable). The downsides of this plan are possibility that the game doesn't offer us the necessary tech choices, the delay in getting to Fusion and the need to be careful with out trade/gift timing. Please let me know your thinking.

Darius · October 8, 2001, 12:45

Johndmuller, that sounds like a good plan. I would like to get to Air Power as quickly as possible. I will offer you HEC next turn.

knowhow2 · October 8, 2001, 13:29

turn 2152 to darius

I'm currently researching on Enviro Economics and I think I should stay that way, the energy restriction lift would give us a jump in research. I think next I will build CCs in all my bases and then pop boom all bases. How many years till the axis invasion do you estimate it would be?

Darius · October 8, 2001, 15:05

There's no way to tell when an invasion might occur. I want to get to Air Power quickly and get some aircraft out there patrolling so we will have some warning.

Take a look at the latest map off my west coast. My Unity chopper has located the edge of a territory close to me, but I don't know who it is. I'll send my probe foil over there for a look.

JDM, I offered you High Energy Chemistry. Knowhow2, I will want Ecological Engineering soon, but not until I have a few crawled mines experiencing mineral restrictions. And by the way, Knowhow2, I have several techs you don't have. Check your F2 screen if you want to check it out.

Turn to John.

knowhow2 · October 8, 2001, 15:27

I think I will wait with all techs until Enviro Economics. After that if you guys need me perhaps I should join the path to Fusion. Otherwise prog psych and adap eco for Planetary eco would be something i shoot for to maximize my pop limits. Not to mention tree farms and hybrid farms. 2152- it still early. We might have another 10-15 year before the first attack. Maximazing the mineral production would be important for spitting out troops later on when the actual invasion occurs.

johndmuller · October 8, 2001, 16:55

MY 2153 turn to Commissioner Knowhow2

Well, the best laid plans, . . .

It didn't offer me Synth Fossil Fuels after all that manipulation, so I'm researching PolyM SWare afterall (at a slightly slower pace too, I suppose). Oh well, I'm scheduled to get it in 2163, and maybe sooner, so I could always switch to Synth Fossil Fuels after that and gain a few turns edge out of it. Darius, why don't you send me that last tech too, I might want to build a PD (or run a Police state

).

I may have gotten a >pop<, but I'm not sure if it counts without the interlude message (or whether the interlude messages are in fact on or not. >pop<'s are good, but it converted one of my (operating) forests into fungus, so that was >bad<.

I also encountered an IOD

at the end of the move after finally getting my Unity Rover all the way around to the channel between Darius and me. I guess I've got a 50/50 chance of surviving, but if you've got a chopper or something else over there Darius, the (green) IOD is at (54,38); it has an MW on board, so you could get some ec's if you win, while the best I can get is a promotion.

knowhow2 · October 8, 2001, 18:51

turn to darius

a cyborg scoutrover just landed on my island, fortunely i have a probe in "striking distance" but I'm afraid I might be short in cash. So if one or both of you could spare some (just in case) it would be great. If I don't need it I send it back with the map. I also forgot about the map this turn, sorry.

I'm 4 turns from enviro economics.

a damn mindworm have been bugging me for 2 turns now, killing one former and one scout (independent), it's still alive but probably gets it next turn when it goes for my newly build former in base.

Darius · October 8, 2001, 22:23

Sorry, John, I didn't read your post until after I played my turn.

I don't think I could have gotten my chopper there anyway, though.

I did discover that the base near my western coast belongs to the Hive.

Turn to JDM.

johndmuller · October 9, 2001, 02:21

MY 2154 turn to Commissioner Knowhow2

Knowhow2, I sent you 30ec; I know its not much, but . . . .

I find that if I take care of the trade stuff right away at the beginning of the turn when it comes up, it's very hard to forget. You can always go back in there and change it later on in your turn; when I put it off til later, that's when I forget to do it at all.

Darius, please send the Doc Loyalty whenever.

I don't have a transport anymore (moment of silence); nor a port on your coast, but I am going to have a base within drop range of your landmass soon - much sooner than we have drop capability though. If you have a ship and can bring one or two of your formers over I can trade you for mine (assuming it/they can get onto your boat - I've never tried that, so I don't know); just give me a few turns warning so that I don't get them committed on too long of a term jobs. Eventually, I will have a port or two over there and/or can sail another transport around from my port on the other side. There is always the infamous needlejet transport method (it's better than nothing) which may end up being the quickest method.

knowhow2 · October 9, 2001, 07:15

turn sent to darius.

i manage to succesfully buy that scoutrover for 65 cred (which I had) so that means the creds I borrow its on its way back.

Also I decided to push for enviro economics by tunning up my labs to 100%. breakthrough in two turns. which leads to, which tech should I after this put my attention to? If we decide to shoot for fusion then I probably need to collect all tech I don't have from you guys. Otherwise I stay where I am and go for Pro Psych and Adaptive Economics and then Planetary Economics.

Darius · October 9, 2001, 12:08

John, I can't get there for a while. I have a transport under construction, so remind me in a few turns if I forget.

Knowhow2, I would suggest going for Fusion next. Let us know which techs you want from us.

Turn to John.

johndmuller · October 9, 2001, 12:28

(note: this was cross posted with Darius' above)

Knowhow2, my suggestions would be:

-a- Intellectual Integrity - soon to be on critical path to Fusion Power
- - - You would need Doc: Loyalty from Darius (or me after he sends it to me);

-b- BioEngineering - for "Clean" ability
- - - You would need Neural Grafting from me;

-c- Duplicate Darius' research on Synth Fossil Fuels on the path to Air Power - In theory, when one of you finishes and immediately gives the tech to the other, that other will (hopefully) be able to switch to Air Power, but with their same tech cost and a good headstart in accumulated tech points, giving them Air Power at the same time they would have gotten SSF
- - - You would need Hi Energy Chem from either of us;

-d- Duplicate my reseach into PolyM SWare on a different part of the path to Fusion Power - this would operate the same way as -c- above, except that the second party would be switching to a different tech (perhaps SFF).
- - - I think you have all the prereq's for this already

You should probably double check the prereq situations as I am not certain I know who has what techs and I have been known to misread the tech chart.

I suppose I favor -c- since that it is what I hoped to do the last time I switched techs. However, the game is supposedly consistent as to what techs it offers, given what you have already (but I have no idea what the relationships are), so it could very well happen to you as it did to me, that the game does not offer you SFF. Then you would end up following -d- as I did, or perhaps straying from the desired paths altogether.

If you choose -c- or -d-, you will have to be careful to transfer the tech in time if you discover it first as otherwise it could be possible to independently discover the tech and waste a lot of research.

Anyway feel free to select your own approach, those are just my suggestions; Darius may also have some ideas too, although I think this post may already have exceeded his think-about-tech-choices limit.

Darius · October 9, 2001, 12:37

Quote:

Originally posted by johndmuller
Darius may also have some ideas too, although I think this post may already have exceeded his think-about-tech-choices limit.

Indeed.

Darius

johndmuller · October 9, 2001, 15:35

MY 2155 turn to Commissioner Knowhow2

knowhow2 · October 9, 2001, 16:25

turn 2155 to darius

I guess i will shoot for SFF so I need HEC. One of you will have to give it to me. Breakthrough next turn.

Darius · October 10, 2001, 09:12

Turn to John last night at 10:43 PM Eastern time.

I offered HEC to you, knowhow2.

johndmuller · October 10, 2001, 11:17

MY 2156 turn to Commissioner Knowhow2

Knowhow2, Please send over the Environmental Economics tech as soon as you get it as I have a number of producing tiles bounded by the Energy Restriction and we could use the extra techpoints and ec's. Thanks.

BTW knowhow2, feel free to change your leader's name; you don't have to be TMS (unless you want to).

knowhow2 · October 10, 2001, 16:32

I don't think I know how to

change the name.

knowhow2 · October 10, 2001, 16:45

turn 2156 to darius

enviro economics in my hands. sent to you, John.

currently researching SFF (breakthrough in 8 turns after lowering labs to 50%)

..

Darius · October 10, 2001, 21:18

2157 to John.

To change your faction name: Click Menu, then Network, then Customize Faction.

I'm hoping to infiltrate the Hive next turn.

johndmuller · October 11, 2001, 11:57

MY 2157 turn to Commissioner Knowhow2

Darius, I hate to keep asking you this, but the @#%%!* IOD that ate my Unity Foil is a smart cookie; instead of dropping off the MW where it was (and where my men were waiting for it), it moved along the coast and dropped it off next to my new (and undefended) base Morgan ModestoMagnifico. If by chance, you are in a position to zap it, I would be grateful (the MW is in the river downstream from MMM and the IOD is right offshore - I jotted down (49,31) but I'm not sure whether that is the base or the MW). I didn't see your chopper over there, so I suppose it won't be possible, but I thought it worth a try anyway in case it is in the open where I can't see it.

Darius · October 11, 2001, 12:13

John, my chopper is on my west coast recuperating from reconnoitering Hive territory at extreme range. It will take at least two turns to get there, but I'll see what I can do.