English or British?

[red_jon]

Is it the 'English' or 'British' civilisation in Civ3? So far I've heard its English - but in this screenshot http://www.civ3.com/images/screenshots/foreign.jpg it says 'Queen Elizabeth of Britain'.

I hope Firaxis don't make the mistake of getting the two mixed up - as anyone from the Isles will tell you, England is a province of Britain. Britain also includes Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales.

I knows it's a relatively small problem, but it bugged the hell outta me in the SNES version of Civ2.


RJ

[Ilkuul]

Yes, yes, yes, as a fellow-Brit I must speak up and be counted! Do make sure you get it right, Firaxis, and don't start talking about 'British' when you mean 'English', or vice versa.

As an aside, I think it's quite appropriate to have an English civ. as opposed to a British one, in view of the overall historical period of the game. 'Britain' has only been a unified nation for about 400 of the past 4000 years. Also, I like to be able to add the Scots as a separate civ and then grind them to dust...

[red_jon]

Originally posted by Ilkuul
Also, I like to be able to add the Scots as a separate civ and then grind them to dust...

You can in the Call to Power games ... I played with the English, Welsh, Scottish and Irish.
I very much doubt Scotland or Wales will be in Civ3 though.

I do hope Firaxis get it right.

[tniem]

Could it be that depending on your status in the game i.e. your an empire, nation state, or small city-state that your nation's name changes? I know this is a long shot but if it was the case, going from simply being a tribe (the Egyptians) to an empire (Northern Kingdom) to a modern nation (Egypt) would be a great touch.

[Ilkuul]

AAARGH! In the setup screenshot referenced in Arator's thread "the most disappointing NON-IMPROVEMENT" -- http://www.civ3.com/images/screenshots/playersetup.jpg
-- look at the last "YOUR CIV" option in the right-hand column: "Britain"!!

Come on, Firaxis, get your facts straight! Elizabeth I was queen of ENGLAND, not Britain!!!!

[Inverse Icarus]

bloody 'ell!

(psst... you lost an h)

bhloody 'ell!

(smack)

[Ilkuul]

TRIPLE AAAARGH!!!

I don't believe this.

I've been checking the screenshots on the new website, and there's no doubt about it: "England" has now become "Britain"!

Look at trade1.jpg (Gallery, p.2): Britain is listed, not England.

And worst of all, in foreign.jpg (same page) there's the explicit description: "Queen Elizabeth of Britain"!

No, no NO, NO, NOOOOO! Firaxis, if you must have "Britain", you can't make Elizabeth I its queen! If you must have Liz I, you can't make her queen of Britain!!

ALL BRITS SHOULD RISE UP IN REVOLT AT THIS MANGLING OF OUR HISTORY!

[Lenius]

Britain should not be included in Civ3 it is obviously just gonna p**s people off. Please FIRAXIS don't put Britain in just rename it England even if your not gonna have a Celtic Civilisation.

It makes sense that Britain shouldn't be in Civ3 for a huge host of political, social, economic and historical reasons that would take ages to explain.

At the end of the day putting in Britain is a very bad idea!!!

Oh and I also would like for England to be seperate in Civ3 (scene as that topic has been started) so i can nuke them.

[down th' pub]

I'll do worse than that, boyo, I'll nuke your sheep.

[- Groucho -]

Errr, why not have Lizzie queen of Britain? It's not like it is historically accurate to have her reign last 6000 years, so why do you care that her title isn't historically accurate either?

How about Empress of Britain? Would that be OK?

[red_jon]

Originally posted by Echinda
Errr, why not have Lizzie queen of Britain? It's not like it is historically accurate to have her reign last 6000 years, so why do you care that her title isn't historically accurate either?

How about Empress of Britain? Would that be OK?

It's like having Abe Lincoln as the President of North America (INCLUDING Mexico and Canada)!

Firaxis will get it wrong. Mark my words.

[SerapisIV]

Originally posted by red_jon
It's like having Abe Lincoln as the President of North America (INCLUDING Mexico and Canada)!

Well they ARE just economic colonies


j/k

[- Groucho -]

WHAT?!?! ECONOMIC COLONIES!??!!

Just listen to this stunning list of home grown Canadian companies:

GM Canada
Ford Canada
IBM Canada
Xerox Canada
McDonald's of Canada

Need I go on.

[red_jon]

I'd have preffered Winston Churchill to Elizabeth, anyway. He strikes much more of a chord with the British (plus, you could call him leader of Britain and be correct).

[Dauphin]

To me Vicki is the only palletable leader of the British Empire.

I hope Firaxis don't make the mistake of getting the two mixed up - as anyone from the Isles will tell you, England is a province of Britain. Britain also includes Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales.

England and Scotland are countries, Wales is a principality, N Ireland is a province. The name United Kingdom was coined when the Kingdoms of Scotland and England were united under James II/VI, by which time the Welsh and to an extent the Irish were subjects of the English.

"Britain" officially came into existence in 1801 when all of the British Isles became united after the shotgun wedding with Ireland. Before that time the term "English empire" was a more common usage than "British Empire".

[Col Bigspear]

Pfffh
This is what happens when you let an American design a game.
I suppose when the Russians develop Nuclear weapons, they launch instantly without reason!. Being the Evil Commies that they *are*. *(Sorry, Were)
Get ya Finger out Firaxis.

-------------------OT------------------------------------
Americans, I think the Russians were more afraid of you launching first. You had missle bases in Turkey (on their frigging border) and across Europe, but when the Commies try and even things up you nearly start WW3 ( Cuban Missle Crisis ). Your more of a threat to the world than Communism ever was.

[Inverse Icarus]

Originally posted by red_jon
I'd have preffered Winston Churchill to Elizabeth, anyway. He strikes much more of a chord with the British (plus, you could call him leader of Britain and be correct).

even as an american, i recognize churchill's greatness.

(and i know its odd for an american to hail a foriegner )

--------------------------OT-------------------------------

yes. it was our policy of containment, and brinkmanship, which basically said whenever the commies tried to extend their power or economic theory (stupid) onto other nations we would go to the brink of war, but never actually go there.

of course we never told the commies that

and the reason for such a reaction was the "domino effect" thought up by many political upperclassmen. although it never happened, the thought was if NAM fell then all of southeast asia would, and if Cuba showed strength under communism, even with soviet aid, other latin american nations would go red.

also, i was just reading a local paper, and there was an "ask the community" column, asking "how do you feel about the olympic games being offered to china given their human right violations".

this one guy said

"china shouldn't get the games because the games are about unity, about all nations comming together. and communists like china aren't about unity, they want to tear all nations apart".

TALK ABOUT PROPAGANDA BRAINWASHED.

socialism wants to engulf the world as one nation you dolt.

Originally posted by UberKruX


even as an american, i recognize churchill's greatness.

(and i know its odd for an american to hail a foriegner )

Did you know that Churchill is also an American?

[Alexander I]

I am an American citizen, but first generation on my father's side.
His father is a German, and his mother is British (Anglo-Scot). Growing up knowing the correct way of things (ie. the Union Jack is NOT England's flag) and having to try to explain to thousand of ignorant Yankees how it really was is tough. I feel just the same way as all of my British citizen friends out here on this thread. Yet I think I can see where Firaxis is coming from. They're trying to make a time-wise universal civ. In other words, Mao can be emperor of China, Joan of Arc can be a queen, and so on. Britain is not a civilization, it's an island, and the British are a mixture of peoples that live there. But Elizabeth was British as well as English (all English are British but not all British are English). I think perhaps that, while Elizabeth was not the best choice (come on Victoria! ), that the Firaxis team had their hearts in the right place, not in some ignorant cesspool of degeneracy.

Plus, all the threads demanding that Britain be the English tribe if the Celts were gone... well, it only goes to show that they do occasionally listen to us. (Like how we found out Babylon and Persia were in before the site came out).

[Chronus]

Errr, why not have Lizzie queen of Britain? It's not like it is historically accurate to have her reign last 6000 years, so why do you care that her title isn't historically accurate either?

I agree. This is sheer pathetic.

It's like having Abe Lincoln as the President of North America (INCLUDING Mexico and Canada)!

In CivII, Lincoln is President of the AMERICANS which would include both North and South America. This is obviously not historical . . . so what? He is also refered to as Comrade, King, High Priest (or whatever titles Civ has for the various governments) which he obviously wasn't. I also don't recall the U.S. ever being a Communist nation or a Monarchy (well, that's up for debate ) but, lo and behold, it is in many of the Civ games I've played . . . what's the big deal? The same could be said about Ghandi . . . he didn't have any political title such as "King" or "President" (at least, not that I'm aware of) . . . and yet it occurs all the time in Civ.

Yes, it would be nice for Firaxis to get it right. But, come on people . . .

[Inverse Icarus]

Originally posted by joseph1944

Did you know that Churchill is also an American?

yes. they made him a citizen. that doesn't count

Originally posted by UberKruX


yes. they made him a citizen. that doesn't count

Yes but his Mother was American.

[tniem]

Originally posted by Chronus
In CivII, Lincoln is President of the AMERICANS which would include both North and South America. This is obviously not historical . . . so what?

No it does not. Look he is refered to as this because there is no U.S. ethnicity and that is what they were going for. The British, Egyptians, the Russians, and the Germans. All an ethniticity. The U.S. doesn't have that.

So what they substitute is Americans. It is how it has to be. It is the U.S. tribe name.

[Lenius]

Wales is a principality

Any self respecting Welshman would call Wales a country and is as much a country as any other country in the world - the pricipality comes from English subjecting doctrines which any Proud Welshman couldn't give a **** about what they think.

Before that time the term "English empire" was a more common usage than "British Empire".

True, lets face it the British Empire is the English Empire the Celts in Briton certainly didn't want to subjacate and enslave half the world. Also the English Empire expression was used far after 1801 and is a much truer term than British Empire - Look at (DISRAELI'S Crystal Palace Speech in 1860 odd i think - He uses the term English Empire)

Plus, all the threads demanding that Britain be the English tribe if the Celts were gone... well, it only goes to show that they do occasionally listen to us.

WHAT?????? As if 1 true Celt would want that it's bad enough being associated with the English in real life let alone Civ. There shouldn't be a Britain Civ in Civ3 if the Celts aren't in PLEASE Firaxis just keep England as England not Britain - at worst call England the English Empire.

[Provost Harrison]

"Proud Welshman". Isn't that an oxymoron?

Who cares, a historically important figurehead has been selected, one who you can recognise, feel some kind of connection with, and you can make all sorts of negotiations with. What do you play the game for? An exact, step-by-step recreation of history or to play a damn fine game? I know which it is for me!

[Sabre2th]

Originally posted by Chronus
Monarchy (well, that's up for debate )

No it's not....... No single person has ever held power. Every decision is discussed by Congress. It is at best an Oligopoly (and not much of one at that)

[Bereta_Eder]

I think it's a question of commerciability (assuming such word exist in english? )

Easily recognisable and inspiring faces, countries, civs. (not that a lot of the civs that were left out did not have these characteristics).

I don't think it's a mistake. I think they did do some historical mistakes (like designing Alexander with short hair instead of the long hair he had according to statues, scriptures etc), but to have an english Queen for Britain is too big to be unintentional.

They just combine what's best known. The british empire with the english Queen.

Still, I can understand your points.

[Bereta_Eder]

Or it can be something even more simple:

The queen is the leader of the british, not their queen.

Who was the leader of the british? Wasn't it the english queen? (I'm asking, I don't know)

[Bereta_Eder]

In that case of course, that would have to change

Originally posted by red_jon
http://www.civ3.com/images/screenshots/foreign.jpg[/url] it says 'Queen Elizabeth of Britain'.

[Draco aka Se7eN]

I think Firaxis can change this well before the release date. Really i think it would be better just to call whatever nation it is England instead of Britain, Really the only reason i can think of that they would even call it Britain is either because thats what it says on the globe in their offices or just to change things up. It seems like most of you would prefer England if not all of you. And i doubt there will be any complaints if its called England instead of Britain, so i dont see any reason why Firaxis cant change it. Well there is one reason "ah who cares, let them edit in the rules text" (laziness ).

I say on England

Since some of us seem to be giving our nationalities for fun.

Im Irish american