Custom Civs

Arator · August 12, 2001, 00:31

Let's let Firaxis know how we feel!

Apocalypse · August 12, 2001, 00:54

Ummm...they do know how people feel on the issue. It isn't like that are totally out of touch.

Inverse Icarus · August 12, 2001, 00:56

comming from a chieftan of this site No, I don't like to have the freedom to make my own choices. Let Firaxis decide how many (only 16!) and which Civs I can choose from to play with. is a rather harsh statement.

anyway... firaxis spent way too much time developing some extemely diverse, and animated civs. IMHO the time spent making different animations for different eras could have added a few more civs to the mix, but it's too late now.

you don't really want firaxis to push back civ3 for a year just so you can play as the Celts or Japanese do you?

Arator · August 12, 2001, 01:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Apocalypse
Ummm...they do know how people feel on the issue. It isn't like that are totally out of touch.

I know. But it sure seemed like they were when I saw that button toggle Civ selector just like in Civ II in their Civ 3 "Player Set Up" screen shot. I mean, we've waited 10 years and we are still locked in to whatever Civs they provide in the standard, random map game? That's just unacceptable to me.

Arator · August 12, 2001, 01:39

Quote:

Originally posted by UberKruX

you don't really want firaxis to push back civ3 for a year just so you can play as the Celts or Japanese do you?

No, but it really shouldn't require that. Look, they have already promised a full featured scenario editor, right? Presumably, even though they've given us NO INFO about it, its near ready to go.

Well, how hard would it really be then to FULLY INTEGRATE IT with the "Player Set Up" for the standard, random map game?

All we would need is:

An infinitely expandable scroll menu or pull down menu INSTEAD of the rigid button toggle in the "Your Civ" selector window.

Have both the "Your Civ" selector window and the "Your Opponents" pull down menus include any Civ you have created with the editor in the list of selectable civs for the standard, random map game!

Provide either a means to customize the leader graphic in the editor OR provide a simpler GENERIC leader graphic to use for any CUSTOM CIV.

Do that and PRESTO! you have given long-suffering Civers the means to play with and against any Civ they please, regardless of which and how many Civs Firaxis happens to build into the game!

Now, how hard is that? Do you think that will take a year? I don't.

Rasputin · August 12, 2001, 01:58

as an avid MP player I dont care at all about the civ specific stuff , animated leaders and such. im fact it takes away from the game and shows how little they think of MP in civ 3 IMHO...

MP is all about your style of play and as such you should be able to name your civ any name , give your leader your name and name the cityd anything you want. Thats al lthe custom entries i want...

Apocalypse · August 12, 2001, 02:02

We weren't locked into the Civs they provided. It has always been customizable. You seem to be making very dangerous assumptions based on a limited amout of screenshots. This poll has no real value either. I've been out of the Civ community for a while, converting console gamers to PC gamers, and I'm appalled at how prevelent this has become. No one was ever like this before SMAC was released, minus a few people who were run out of the forums. Don't make such harsh judgements before you can played the game or there is hard information on the subject. As of yet, there is no real indication that it is impossible to have civs like China, the Vikings, etc in a random map game at the same time.

Arator · August 12, 2001, 02:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Rasputin
as an avid MP player I dont care at all about the civ specific stuff , animated leaders and such. im fact it takes away from the game and shows how little they think of MP in civ 3 IMHO...

MP is all about your style of play and as such you should be able to name your civ any name , give your leader your name and name the cityd anything you want. Thats al lthe custom entries i want...

I agree 1000%. My fear is that fundamental playability and fun has been sacrificed to accomodate completely superfluous fancy leader graphics. I could give a flying fig for "leaders" anyway. There is no need for personalized leaders for a civ spanning 6000 years. It's absurd. We ought to just have generic leader references like "King of France" or "President of America". There doesn't need to be a personality there. It adds NOTHING to the game. In fact, it makes it just plain silly. And when it is made the priority over fundamental advances in game customizability and play, fancy leader graphics are just downright GALLING!

Inverse Icarus · August 12, 2001, 02:59

hey screw you. i love seeing Comrade KruX of the Roman Empire for eternity.

Inverse Icarus · August 12, 2001, 03:00

and if u really care that much turn off the animations.

i'm sure you can.

using the tools you can replace them with still images.

make the image a black square if u want... i really dont care.

Sabre2th · August 12, 2001, 03:03

Quote:

hey screw you

I agree with this and I really wish Arator would go away, but don't start flaming.

Sabre2th · August 12, 2001, 03:04

Krux! Your cow just disappeared! Nooooooooooooooo................

Arator · August 12, 2001, 03:16

Quote:

Originally posted by UberKruX
hey screw you. i love seeing Comrade KruX of the Roman Empire for eternity.

Hey, I like playing [insert my personal leader name of the moment] for all eternity too. But does that mean I want to look at the fancy leader graphic of Firaxis's choice for leaders of my opposing civs morphing and aging throught the game? NO! That just detracts from my enjoyment, because I live for 6000 game years, but Mao, Abe, etc. never did and never will! Get it?

Sabre2th · August 12, 2001, 03:17

Arator - you are clearly a minority here. You can turn them off, I'm sure. If you can't, then you just don't play the game. Stop whining.

hetairoi22 · August 12, 2001, 07:54

Arator,
How do you know for serain you can't add more civs to the player setup menu?? You've been playing the beta haven't you. Damn you.

orange · August 12, 2001, 12:43

I'm upset that the game is shipping with only 16 Civs and none of them are new! I mean, alls they did was replace Sioux with Iroqious. Even CTP II had more civs than this!

And I'm guessing only 8 at a time can play? Man...what a let down

Arator · August 12, 2001, 13:12

Quote:

Originally posted by hetairoi22
Arator,
How do you know for serain you can't add more civs to the player setup menu?? You've been playing the beta haven't you. Damn you.

Check out this screenshot:

http://www.civ3.com/images/screenshots/playersetup.jpg

Note the "Your Civ" selector window. It's the same rigid, locked-in, built-in Civs ONLY set up we had in Civ II. There is no allowance made in this graphic for added custom civs. So, apparently, as in Civ II, you can't add custom civs to the playable mix in a standard, random map game. You can only, at best, hack text files and REPLACE the 16 built-in civs, up to the rigid limit of 16. This, by far, to me is the MOST DISAPPOINTING NON-IMPROVEMENT to this game. It is even a retrograde, as we now only have 16 civs we can replace as opposed to 21.

Pythagoras · August 12, 2001, 15:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Arator

Check out this screenshot:

http://www.civ3.com/images/screenshots/playersetup.jpg

Note the "Your Civ" selector window. It's the same rigid, locked-in, built-in Civs ONLY set up we had in Civ II. There is no allowance made in this graphic for added custom civs. So, apparently, as in Civ II, you can't add custom civs to the playable mix in a standard, random map game. You can only, at best, hack text files and REPLACE the 16 built-in civs, up to the rigid limit of 16. This, by far, to me is the MOST DISAPPOINTING NON-IMPROVEMENT to this game. It is even a retrograde, as we now only have 16 civs we can replace as opposed to 21.

Oh well. So what. You cant have everything you want, I dont care, I just want to play this game. Theres always gonna be something to comlain about, and I think the game will be awesome.

Warm Beer · August 12, 2001, 15:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Apocalypse
You seem to be making very dangerous assumptions based on a limited amout of screenshots

Very excellent point! At this time, unless specifically stated by Fraxis, we should look at the screenshots as excamples of what we can do, as opposed to what we can't.

Arator · August 12, 2001, 15:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Warm Beer

Very excellent point! At this time, unless specifically stated by Fraxis, we should look at the screenshots as excamples of what we can do, as opposed to what we can't.

Well, if I've made a bad assumption, I sure wish they'd disabuse me of it. Firaxis, what say you? SPEAK!

Inverse Icarus · August 12, 2001, 15:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Sabre2th
Krux! Your cow just disappeared! Nooooooooooooooo................

no, the old cow was just replaced with a new one, ME!

was that cow a CTP unit or something? why was it here? lol

Arator · August 12, 2001, 18:58

Bump to get more votes!

Apocalypse · August 12, 2001, 23:54

Firaxis can't go out and diffuse every rumor and false assumption. Be happy that they actually post at message boards.

Warm Beer · August 13, 2001, 01:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Arator
Bump to get more votes!

I don't know if I am the only one, but I didn't vote in the poll because the options are completely loaded: Me, Me, Me!; I cant think for myself; and I have no opinion.

My vote would be: "Yes- Customization and flexablility is a good thing in a game," but I don't see that option.

HisMajestyBOB · August 13, 2001, 11:45

Down with freedom!!!

This has got to be one of the most slanted polls I've ever seen.

Anyway, Firaxias said they've included an editor that will allow you to edit to your hearts desire, so stop your damn whining.

Brent · August 13, 2001, 14:17

Hey, I'm with Arator 99%. He is the Brave and Fearless Leader of the Underground Movement! So what if he's a tad overzealous?

Leader animations were a nice thought, just like Dinosaurs was, but in the end should have been just a thought.

I suppose it Is possible that the screenshot in question is just one option.

By the way, I Did vote in the poll.

Edward · August 16, 2001, 17:07

Add my name to the "minority" in agreement with Arator.

I found the Civ2 animated heralds to be awkward and annoying. ('Though I found the Civ1 leaders with smiles and frowns to be somewhat amusing. Perhaps Civ3 leaders will be more like this.)

As others have pointed out: Animated leaders, love 'em or hate 'em, who cares 'cause you can just turn them off.

However, Firaxias's huge effort into animation at the (totally assumed - no evidence) cost of effort elsewhere in the game is disconcerting. Like Rasputin, I'm more concerned with game play than fancy graphics.

So far Firaxias has been very adamant about how customizable Civ3 will be. I'm hoping it will be possible to customize the civs. I'll have to agree that it would be asking a bit much of players to have to rename some files to access civs other than the 16 that one currently has in their queue. As Apocalypse and Warm Beer note, Firaxias MIGHT make it easy to add more civs to a (longer than 16) list to choose from.

The fact that a game can only have 8 civs is IMHO the most disappointing fact in this area. My guess is that this was necessary so they could implement their "circle of leader heads" to show diplomatic relations via colored lines. I was really hoping to be able to play with more active civs in a single game.