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Old October 23, 2001, 03:35   #211
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To: Planetary Council
From: Representative Solo

Exactly which resolution from this council gives the Pirates the right to stop vessels and "inspect" them? Also I would like to know which resoulution sets up registrations numbers for vessels? And while I am asking, exactly what resolution names the Peacekeepers, under Commssioner Lal, the Planetary police force?

As far as I know no Spartan representative has ever voted on any of these matters. I would go as far to say that no Morgan, University, Hive, Believer, Cult or Drone representative has ever voted on such a measure either. That pretty much leaves the so called Chiron Alliance. And if that is so. What does that say for their committment to this body?

I am only trying to determine exactly what they seem to think of this body. I suspect that they hold it as dear as their precious democracies. Which, if examined a little closely is as democratic as ours. What kind of democracies have leaders for life.
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Old October 23, 2001, 05:05   #212
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Ambassador Fuentes rises to answer...

She starts with a quick look and a nod in Svensgaard's direction, indicating that she'll let the Pirates speak for themselves, then she turns to face Solo...

"Mr. Solo..."

"You have to keep asking, dont you?
You keep asking... over and over and over and over... what resoultion names the Peacekeepers as the Planetary Police Force?"
She pauses again and sighs, shaking her head...

"How many times do we have to spell it out for you? There IS no such resolution!
Why is it so hard for you to understand that we try to enforce the U.N. Charter because the Charter says we should?? It's as simple as that, really."

Another pause.

"As for the Chiron Alliance..."
Yet another pause. A sour look in Roze's direction. More questioning looks at the others.
"Well, to be blunt, I'm not sure if it even exists anymore, so I won't stick my neck out for it at this time."

She straightens and takes a final brief look around.

"As for what kind of democracies have leaders for life, you'll have to ask someone who has that sort of arrangement. Perhaps Roze can explain this to you."


[OOC: Lal was never proclaimed leader for life. He's just never been replaced, that's all.
It's been mighty close a few times, but somehow he keeps coming out on top and the people never really seem to blame him when things go wrong...]


Private Message
From: Ambassador Fuentes
To: Representative Solo


Commissioner Lal sends word that he will meet your Colonel.



Meanwhile...

Commissioner Lal himself is at the U.N. Embassy, conversing with the staff and preparing his appearance in the Council. During a short break, he takes the opportunity to send a long-delayed response to the message from Prophet Cha Dawn...



Private Message
From: Commissioner Pravin Lal
To: Prophet Cha Dawn of the Cult


Greetings Prophet, and my apologies for taking so long to get back to you.
New Hope is technically in your territory, so on your request, we shall definitely try to maintain some sort of presence in the area. However, we must also seek not to unduely provoke the Believers and their allies. The exact details are yet to be negotiated and our forces will in any case be staying until a peace agreement has been successfully negotiated and implemented. At that point, however, you'll be likely to see some significant force reductions at New Hope.
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Old October 23, 2001, 19:58   #213
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OOC: I believe that the Free Drones' vote breaks the deadlock...

From: Ambassador Ian Davidson-Splertovsky
To: Peacekeepers


Lal, If I must say- what gives anyone the right to enforce the UN Charter unless all people not involved in the issue vote that someone should enforce it.

Private Message
From: H.A. Zakharov
To: Free Drones


Apologies... University computers have been slow- we did not notice your vote.
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Old October 23, 2001, 21:05   #214
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Originally posted by DarkCloud
Private Message
From: Ambassador Ian Davidson-Splertovsky
To: Svensgaard


Several of these reports conflict with our reports, such as the first tale... However, we shall let that issue drop for now. As for the "3 inspected"... We have no comment- those merchants have been deat with and we would wish that you not discuss exactly what those merchants were transporting.

About the fifth case- it is believed that Pirate vessels sunk the merchants- we cannot varify this of course, but the last transmission the ship made was extremely suspicious.
As far as I am concern, the Nautilus Pirates as nothing to do with it.


Quote:
IF you must investigate University vessels that go astray- you must provide them with due chance to change their course.
We usually do.

Quote:
Thank you for this little clarification.
*nods*

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Old October 23, 2001, 21:18   #215
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sprayber
To: Planetary Council
From: Representative Solo

Exactly which resolution from this council gives the Pirates the right to stop vessels and "inspect" them? Also I would like to know which resoulution sets up registrations numbers for vessels? And while I am asking, exactly what resolution names the Peacekeepers, under Commssioner Lal, the Planetary police force?
Didn't the Spartans sent representives to the Global Trade Summit back in 2183? Chiron Alliance used a joint ship registry since the formation of the Trade Alliance back in the early years. As for the rest, we acquire them politly and via infiltration. The only factions seriously not using a registry is the Spartans, Hive, Believers and the Cult as they don't operate much merchant ships.

Quote:
As far as I know no Spartan representative has ever voted on any of these matters. I would go as far to say that no Morgan, University, Hive, Believer, Cult or Drone representative has ever voted on such a measure either. That pretty much leaves the so called Chiron Alliance. And if that is so. What does that say for their committment to this body?
The Free Drones been part of the joint ship registry for awhile now, which proves that it is not solely used by the Chiron Alliance. I am surprise that the Spartans finally got around to complain about this, slow are we?

Quote:
I am only trying to determine exactly what they seem to think of this body. I suspect that they hold it as dear as their precious democracies. Which, if examined a little closely is as democratic as ours. What kind of democracies have leaders for life.
Hey, it wasn't my doing that my people actually voted me for life. Just proves how much they think I am doing a good, where for some factions, cannot state their opinion without getting imprisoned or "re-educated".

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Old October 23, 2001, 21:27   #216
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Lal, If I must say- what gives anyone the right to enforce the UN Charter unless all people not involved in the issue vote that someone should enforce it.
Funny that no one here seem to even bother reading the U.N. Charter or pay attention to the Peacekeepers when they quoted it in some parts throughout the decades.

So, if you people want some other group then the Peacekeepers to enforce it, then we could vote in creating the Interfactional Peacekeeping Task Force like it was proposed back in 2183 after the Second Spartan War. Else, stop complaining and stop breaking the rules stated in the Charter.

Captain Svensgaard


[OOC: For University admitting that THEIR computers were slow to register the Free Drones vote is classic ]
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Old October 24, 2001, 14:01   #217
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(OOC: Well... their probe rating is near 0 anyways So they cannot always be reliable for information )
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Old October 25, 2001, 02:29   #218
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Ambassador Fuentes seems to lighten up a bit as the Captain speaks up in her favor.
When he is finished, she stands to add a few words of her own.

"Commissioner Lal himself will be with us shortly. In the meantime, I will answer this... (*slight chuckle*)... question... on his behalf..."

Quote:
Lal, If I must say- what gives anyone the right to enforce the UN Charter unless all people not involved in the issue vote that someone should enforce it.
"Well, if you look at it that way, what right does anyone have to enforce any law without first calling for a popular vote to determine whether the law should be enforced in that particular case?"
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Old October 25, 2001, 03:22   #219
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After listening to the remarks by Captain Svensgard and the PK Ambassador, Solo rises and looks at each of the representatives.

“So let me get this strait. The PK ambassador states this.

Quote:
"How many times do we have to spell it out for you? There IS no such resolution!
Why is it so hard for you to understand that we try to enforce the U.N. Charter because the Charter says we should?? It's as simple as that, really."
I have read the charter many times, most likely more than any other Spartan. But if I am getting your point, we in Sparta could technically deploy our forces to enforce the charter. As could the Hive, or Morgans, or the Believers. My question is how are we to accept your version of the charter when we all read the charter in our own way. I must say that you wrote the damned thing so vague that you could claim to be enforcing the charter by doing almost anything. When the Pirates illegally established Athens Outpost on Spartan soil, was that enforcing the charter. When they tried to prevent us from founding our sea base, was that enforcing the charter. When they confronted the Believers, was that enforcing the charter. If all of these things have been done in the name of the charter. Why can’t you accept that Sparta came to the aid of the Believers against the Cults use of native life forms, as an enforcement of the charter. How about the Hive’s actions in preventing open rebellion, caused by the Drones and Pirates, as their enforcing the charter.

Quote:
So, if you people want some other group then the Peacekeepers to enforce it, then we could vote in creating the Interfactional Peacekeeping Task Force like it was proposed back in 2183 after the Second Spartan War. Else, stop complaining and stop breaking the rules stated in the Charter.

I believe that Sparta would be more than happy as to volunteer as the Planetary Police Force. We are the best soldiers on Chiron and you can trust us be without bias against any of the individual factions. We promise not use our position indiscriminately and will only intervene when it is absolutely necessary. I believe we should start right away by establishing a seabase next to Safe Have, since it is located in a strategic location. I also believe that a Spartan outpost in necessary in the middle of Peacekeeper lands on the Eastern Continent. You know just to be sure we can get to where we need to be in a timely manner. Now you should not question our motives when we park an entire army on your doorstep. We really have your best interests at heart…

Oh and Captain Svensgard, Sparta would be happy to participate in some form of registry. But not if it means allowing anyone the right to stop and inspect, or harass Spartan ships. Perhaps a registry could be created, but not one used by the Chiron Alliance.

Colonel Santiago will be her tomorrow. She will address the council and will have some important announcements to make.
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Old October 25, 2001, 15:24   #220
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The PK ambassador rolls her eyes at the Spartan's speech.

"My apologies, Mr. Solo, but I honestly wasn't aware of any different 'versions' of, say, the ban on chemical weapons or the articles protecting civilians from indiscriminate slaughter. What exactly is it you don't understand about this? What is so 'vague' about it?"

She turns to face some of the other delegations..

"Let's see... perhaps we need to rewrite the entire Charter.
Something along these lines..."


Quote:
Article 105.1 C
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion.

Translation for the Spartans and the Believers: Means you're not allowed to blast everyone who don't think the way you do.


Article 107.4 E
Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression.

Translation for the Hive: Means your 're-education' camps are illegal.


Article 119.6 A
No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

Translation for whomever it may concern: What? No punishment spheres???

Fuentes looks around, carefully noting the various delegations' reactions.

"Is this really necessary?

She turns back to face the Spartan delegation.

"Mr. Solo, I will be happy to discuss the meaning of the Charter with you if you really feel such a discussion is needed. As a matter of fact, I'll be happy to do it right here in this Council. I propose we start with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which is an important part of the Charter, originally adopted and proclaimed by General Assembly resolution 217 A (III) of 10 December 1948. I shall transmit the full text momentarily, and then you can tell us all what you don't understand about it, okay?"

Without waiting for an answer, she turns away from the Spartans and returns to her seat...
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Old October 25, 2001, 15:36   #221
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General Broadcast
From: U.N. Ambassador Isabella Fuentes
To: Planetary Council


Universal Declaration of Human Rights


Adopted and proclaimed by General Assembly resolution 217 A (III) of 10 December 1948

On December 10, 1948 the General Assembly of the United Nations adopted and proclaimed the Universal Declaration of Human Rights the full text of which appears in the following pages. Following this historic act the Assembly called upon all Member countries to publicize the text of the Declaration and "to cause it to be disseminated, displayed, read and expounded principally in schools and other educational institutions, without distinction based on the political status of countries or territories."

PREAMBLE

    Whereas recognition of the inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world,

    Whereas disregard and contempt for human rights have resulted in barbarous acts which have outraged the conscience of mankind, and the advent of a world in which human beings shall enjoy freedom of speech and belief and freedom from fear and want has been proclaimed as the highest aspiration of the common people,

    Whereas it is essential, if man is not to be compelled to have recourse, as a last resort, to rebellion against tyranny and oppression, that human rights should be protected by the rule of law,

    Whereas it is essential to promote the development of friendly relations between nations,

    Whereas the peoples of the United Nations have in the Charter reaffirmed their faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person and in the equal rights of men and women and have determined to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,

    Whereas Member States have pledged themselves to achieve, in co-operation with the United Nations, the promotion of universal respect for and observance of human rights and fundamental freedoms,

    Whereas a common understanding of these rights and freedoms is of the greatest importance for the full realization of this pledge,



Now, Therefore THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY proclaims THIS UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS as a common standard of achievement for all peoples and all nations, to the end that every individual and every organ of society, keeping this Declaration constantly in mind, shall strive by teaching and education to promote respect for these rights and freedoms and by progressive measures, national and international, to secure their universal and effective recognition and observance, both among the peoples of Member States themselves and among the peoples of territories under their jurisdiction.


Article 1.

    All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.


Article 2.

    Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.


Article 3.

    Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.


Article 4.

    No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.


Article 5.

    No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.


Article 6.

    Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.


Article 7.

    All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.


Article 8.

    Everyone has the right to an effective remedy by the competent national tribunals for acts violating the fundamental rights granted him by the constitution or by law.


Article 9.

    No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.


Article 10.

    Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.


Article 11.

    (1) Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.

    (2) No one shall be held guilty of any penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was committed.


Article 12.

    No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.


Article 13.

    (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.

    (2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.


Article 14.

    (1) Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution.

    (2) This right may not be invoked in the case of prosecutions genuinely arising from non-political crimes or from acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.


Article 15.

    (1) Everyone has the right to a nationality.

    (2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.


Article 16.

    (1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.

    (2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.

    (3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.


Article 17.

    (1) Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.

    (2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.


Article 18.

    Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.


Article 19.

    Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.


Article 20.

    (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association.

    (2) No one may be compelled to belong to an association.


Article 21.

    (1) Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives.

    (2) Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country.

    (3) The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.


Article 22.

    Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization, through national effort and international co-operation and in accordance with the organization and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality.


Article 23.

    (1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.

    (2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.

    (3) Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.

    (4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.


Article 24.

    Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay.


Article 25.

    (1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.

    (2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.


Article 26.

    (1) Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit.

    (2) Education shall be directed to the full development of the human personality and to the strengthening of respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all nations, racial or religious groups, and shall further the activities of the United Nations for the maintenance of peace.

    (3) Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children.


Article 27.

    (1) Everyone has the right freely to participate in the cultural life of the community, to enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits.

    (2) Everyone has the right to the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author.


Article 28.

    Everyone is entitled to a social and international order in which the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration can be fully realized.


Article 29.

    (1) Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development of his personality is possible.

    (2) In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society.

    (3) These rights and freedoms may in no case be exercised contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.


Article 30.

    Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.


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Old October 25, 2001, 20:09   #222
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From: Ambassador Ian Davidson-Splertovsky
To: Planetary Council


How can Lal say that Punishment Spheres are cruel, inhuman and degrading punishment- what constitutes "cruel, inhuman and degrading"

A Punishment Sphere is not cruel- it is just.
A Punishment Sphere is not inhuman- it punishes humans and droids.
A Punishment Sphere is not degrading- it helps people greater realize their untapped glory and human potential.

(OOC: Good work on the list, Guardian)
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Old October 26, 2001, 13:34   #223
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Solo stands up and smiles at the PK Ambassador.

“Your offer to rewrite the charter in plain text for all of us mere mortals was very amusing. As I was reading the information that you sent to all of us I couldn’t help but notice something that jumped out at me. I’ll read it to you.

Quote:
On December 10, 1948 the General Assembly of the United Nations adopted and proclaimed the Universal Declaration of Human Rights the full text of which appears in the following pages. Following this historic act the Assembly called upon all Member countries to publicize the text of the Declaration and "to cause it to be disseminated, displayed, read and expounded principally in schools and other educational institutions, without distinction based on the political status of countries or territories.
In particular, the date of the document jumped out at me. 1948. But Something else kept nagging at the back of my mind, and finally I realized why this date bothered me. At the end of the UN charter we find this little quote.

Quote:
The present Charter shall come into force upon the deposit of ratifications by the Republic of China, France, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and the United States of America, and by a majority of the other signatory states. A protocol of the ratifications deposited shall thereupon be drawn up by the Government of the United States of America which shall communicate copies thereof to all the signatory states.
Why is it that we are upholding a document as outdated as this one surely is? Why is it that we cannot discuss with the nations that I mentioned about the merits of the UN? We cannot because they no longer exist. They are gone. Only a few of us in this room actually no about their existence at all. To the vast majority of people on Chiron, these nations are merely fairy tales told by their parents. This charter addresses nothing of the perils that we face on this planet here in 2200. You so rigidly follow this charter and forget things such as the diabolical use of native life forms as weapons. You constantly look the other way as your allies interfere and disrupt the internal affairs of other nations. And most importantly, you forget that the original UN only was used by the great powers as a selfish tool to interfere in the affairs of the smaller countries. They hid behind their security council and used the “Will of the international community” and “Protection of Human Rights” as an excuse to establish bases of aggression against those who refused to submit to the will of the few. Now such bases are called New Hope and Athens Outpost. We in Sparta do not use punishment spheres because we do not have to. But who are to you sit up in the reading rooms of UNHQ and pronounce them as evil. Are they as evil as forced encroachment on our territories? If the UN wants to lead, then I suggest you get out from behind the Pirates and lead. Don’t look over to the Captain ever time you want to make a speech. Does he have final say on UN positions? I say loudly to you all, let us have a charter that is relivent to us here and now. One that is not dictated to us from Safe Haven or UNHQ. Let it be a charter forged on Chiron and not one that was at least partly to blame for Earth’s demise.”

Solo turns around to sit down. But stops and looks back at the assembled people.

“I look forward to hearing from the UN ambassador, after the Pirates have given their permission and their witty retort.”
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Old October 26, 2001, 15:44   #224
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Ambassador Fuentes stands up and is clearly annoyed.

"First of all, Mr. Solo, I don't need the Pirates' permission to speak to you or anyone else on this Planet, and though I did see some valid points in what you just said, I fail to see what you hope to achive by insulting me like that.

Second, are you implying that we are less human now than they were back on Earth in 1948?
If not, then why is that date a problem for you?

Third, I see you've been playing with the original Charter from 1945.
Did you happen to notice that the paragraph to which you refer was removed in the 2007 revision of the Charter and so has in fact not been part of the Charter for the past 193 years?

Fourth, in spite of what you seem to think, we are aware of the failures of the original UN. Intimately aware. If you hadn't been so busy trying to wipe us off the face of this planet, you might have noticed that we're doing a lot of things different now.

If you have a problem with the actions of our allies or anyone else, all you have to do is bring it before this Council. We will listen to whatever you have to say and we will support you if you have a case. Likewise, if you'd stopped complaining for 5 minutes and actually submitted a proposal for this body to vote over, we could have had a ban on offensive PSI warfare in effect right now. Instead you choose to hide behind your armies and threaten us all with your extravagant weapons. -And then you complain about us not giving you a chance!

We tried, Karl. We really tried.
-And you almost killed us all for it.

In spite of that, we are willing to try again.
-But we won't do it on our own..."

She stands for another moment, watching him, with an eyebrow raised in an unspoken question.
Then she sits back down.

During the brief silence following her speech, Commissioner Lal enters the chamber and quietly works his way over to sit next to her. The two of them are clearly delighted to see each other and actually smile for a few moments...

Last edited by Guardian; October 26, 2001 at 16:03.
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Old October 26, 2001, 16:56   #225
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As the PK ambassador finished her speech and commissioner lal sat down, Solo looked around uncomfortably thinking that he might have hurt her feelings. He noticed a message for him blinking and when he had finished reading it a large smile spread across his face. Solo stood up.

“Commissioner Lal. It is good of you to grace us with your presence. If I may I would like to address some of the things just said before Colonel Santiago enters the chambers. I must have hit a nerve with my reference to the Pirates. But regardless if you see it or not, the rest of us see you as a distant second with the Pirates. Perhaps that is something your planners should take into account.

I mentioned that paragraph for a purpose. One to which you didn’t respond to. Removing the statement in 2007 did nothing to remove the practice of the great powers abusing the UN. It just made it off the record.

We are not less human than we were in 1948, but we are different. We should recognize those differences with a new charter. One that limits those such as the Pirates that dare to set themselves up above others. You spoke of us hiding behind our armies. It is not us who deploys warships across the seas and harass those that set up colonies on the sea. It is not us who establish outposts on the border of another countries. And it is not us who came to this base with a vast fleet of warships. Colonel Santiago arrived on a single unarmed transport plane. How did you come here Commissioner Lal?”

Solo paused as he heard a message coming over his quicklink. He remained quiet as the doors opened and Colonel Santiago strode through the high vaulted archway. She was followed by her aide who walked closely behind her. Santiago nodded as she passed by Morgan and made her way over to the Spartans desk. Solo stood at attention and she said something barely audible in a language that no one could quite understand and Solo nodded. She sat down and started at the PK position in a confident yet non threatening manner. Solo sat down at his desk and pointed at some controls on his desk.

[OOC: Solo was filling space until Santiago arrived.]
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Old October 27, 2001, 08:29   #226
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Helena Gamma-7, recently appointed Cybernetic Consciousness liaison and representative to the Planetary Council, rises and prepares to speak.

My fellow delegates, we appear to have reached something of an impasse. As I understand it, both candidates for the Planetary Governorship have 34 votes.

Obviously, since there are only two candidates, a 'coalition' form of government would be both impractical and unfeasible. Also, it is the opinion of the Consciousness that CEO Nwabudike Morgan cannot hope to continue as Planetary Governor, since he did not stand for re-election and so received no votes from any of the factions.

Therefore, it is the opinion of the Consciousness that the vote should be retaken. It has come to our attention that both the Peacekeepers and the Cult of Planet may wish to alter their votes, and this may turn the stemmed tide. It is our belief that public opinion should be allowed to triumph, and that whichever faction gains the most votes in the re-vote should take the Planetary Governorship.

If there is significant opposition to this proposal, why should we not table it as a motion before the Planetary Council and let everyone decide?


She sits again, looking demurely embarrassed at having to present such a speech.
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Old October 27, 2001, 10:49   #227
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Representative Solo starts to stand but Colonel Santiago grabs his arm and whispered something in his ear. Solo sits back down with mild case of shock at Santiago grabbing his arm. He notices Ambassador Fuentes unsuccessfully trying to hold back her laughter at seeing the look on his face. As this is happening, Colonel Santiago stands up and moves to the podium to address the council.

To: Planetary Council
From: Colonel Santiago

“While this is not the time I had wished to speak, the issue that has been brought up is of great importance to me. This has been a long and difficult campaign. I can imagine all of the deals that were attempted to gain this or that faction’s votes. I know that I found myself talking to people that I normally would not have. But after all is said and done, I believe that that was a good thing. All of us here has had the privilege of living a long time. But along with the privilege comes a curse. Some of us have allowed our personal feelings for another leader to cloud our judgments. For some it has become more of a personal matter than a matter of state. And that is after all why we are here. To ensure that our citizens get their fair share or resources and to protect them from the dangers that everyone faces. If we fail at that, than we are merely parasites upon our respective factions. The Consciousness liaison has suggested that we go through this process again. But I must disagree. We have already spent way too much time on this issue and there are so many other issues that need the attention of this body if it is to remain relevant. Cause I must honestly ask if the most important aspect of this body is who is its governor. Since myself and Roze both received the same number of votes it would appear clear that we are unacceptable to at least half of the population on this planet. I ask Data Jack Roze to join me and call on CEO Morgan to go on as Planetary Governor. He has served with distinction for the past term and believe that he will serve with honor for a second. There would be no purpose to have a revote unless there is intent to alienate have of the factions on this planet. As to the argument that the Cult of Planet and the Peacekeepers should have a second chance to revote, I would just like to say that Sparta is opposed to any attempt to decide an election after the fact. A new round of voting would only result in the same result and would be in effect giving the Cult and Peacekeepers a second chance at voting. This would cast a shadow on next governor. I would not want that and if I have judged Sinder Roze correctly, I believe she would not want that. I would like to thank the leaders that voted for me in the election. Sister Miriam Godwinson, Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang, CEO Nwabudike Morgan, and Academician Prokhor Zakharov. Your support will not be forgotten.

[OOC: Can you see Solo's look when Colonel Santiago grabs his arm. Kind of like a parent would do with a child that is about to do something. This would be like the last thing in the world he would expect from her. Of course he will have a good laugh about later when he deals with the embarrasment.]
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Old October 27, 2001, 16:37   #228
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From: Believing Representative Father Deacon
To: Planetary Council


The Believers support the Spartan motion to retain CEO Nwabudike Morgan as the Planetary Governor. Obviously, a third party is needed to avoid a possible political crisis.

Since the voting has already passed, and the fact that certain occurrences slowed her progress in travelling here considerably, Sister Miriam has aborted her voyage and is now returning to New Jerusalem.

Father Theodore Deacon
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Old October 27, 2001, 17:12   #229
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Roze stands to address the Spartan proposal.

General Address
To: Planetary Council
From: Datajack Roze

How gallant and noble Colonel. Yet, I cannot help but notice the situation you so "objectively" put forward. Your solution to a stalemate between two clear sides of the voting is to have one of your staunch supporters to retain the Governership. Excuse me if I don't jump at your "generous" offer. A man who did not continue his candidacy, not because he no longer sought the office, but because no one save the University of Planet was willing to back him.

While I mean no disrespect to CEO Morgan in this situation, his retaining the Governership at this stage would be absurd. We cannot decide between the two eligible candidates, so we opt for the man that no one wanted to lead anymore. How can we respect the leadership of such a Governor.

The only people I see gaining from this Colonel Santiago, is you and your burgeoning alliance.

I say the situation is clear. We have two factions who for their own reasons chose not to support either candidate. I propose that they must now submit a vote for either yourself Colonel, or myself. Whichever they deam as the lesser of two evils I suppose. That way no one's votes are negated and the majority of Planet's population will support one candidate as a further deadlock would be impossible.
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Old October 27, 2001, 19:07   #230
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To: Planetary Council
From: Colonel Santiago

A faction’s vote cannot be changed once it is given out. To allow that to happen would set a precedent in which a faction can go back on its word on any matter. If you want to be the governor of an insignificant body than this is the path to be taken. You will preside over a hollow body that serves no other purpose than for show. There will be no reason for the Believers to come to this body in search of peace if the Cult can change it’s mind on a whim. The Cult’s decision to revote was made because they felt that they could have an opportunity to make the difference and to gain favor with the Data Angels. When they felt that they had no chance to affect the outcome they considered you to be “unworthy of their vote”. What has happened to change their mind? What have they to gain? At least the Peacekeepers had the honor to stand upon their principles, while the Cult merely wants to pander to whomever they think they can cozy up to. I seem to remember that they like to talk about environmental issues but associate with those that pollute far more than anyone else. Take a revote and this council become meaningless. And as far as my supposed alliance with CEO Morgan. Well, he was governor for the last ten years. Exactly how has it been overly beneficial to Sparta? He has refrained from interfering at every little opportunity. Would you do different?
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Old October 27, 2001, 19:08   #231
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From: Ambassador Ian Davidson-Splertovsky
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Another issue that the University would like to discuss in regards to the charter- Just why are women and children given extra rights? Are they weaker- no! Are they more important, most certainly NO!

We suggest a revision.

---
From: Zakharov

My belief is that the two candidates govern equally.
It is the only fair decision.
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Old October 28, 2001, 08:02   #232
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From: Lady Deirdre Skye
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Please explain, my dear Zakharov, how on Planet that is a fair decision. We have word that both the Cult and the Peacekeepers wish to change their votes. This is supposed to be a democratic system, and it follows that we must allow all factions their votes.

Is our dear Colonel Santiago afraid of popular opinion, perhaps?
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Old October 28, 2001, 15:29   #233
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From: Head Academician Prokhor Zakharov
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If they neglected to vote for whom they wished to, then they should not have a second chance to vote.

Most likely they were coerced into wishing to change their votes.

...And even if they had not; they should not be able to revise their poor planning through changing their votes, with all respect to Cha-Dawn and Lal, of course.
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Old October 28, 2001, 16:04   #234
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Ambassador Fuentes has been sitting in silence next to her Commissioner since her last little speech, trying not to make too much of an issue out of her obvious distaste for the Spartan's notion that she would need the Pirates' permission to speak up for herself. Karl Solo might not have intended it that way, but as far as Isabella Fuentes was concerned, he might as well have called her a dirty whore.

Commissioner Lal's arrival momentarily lifted her spirits, but as Solo spoke again and Colonel Santiago entered the Chambers, it seemed clear that the UN Ambassador was anything but happy.

Lal noticed her gloomy mood and started a whispered conversation, apparently trying to cheer her up a bit. After a sour look in the Spartans' direction, she turned her attention to Lal and gradually started smiling again. The two of them appeared to discuss some kind of question and reach some kind of agreement, then they both turned their attention back to the ongoing discussion.

Fuentes giggled at the look on Solo's face when Santiago grabbed his arm, but otherwise stayed put for yet some time. As she listened to Santiago and Roze, she seemed to change back into her usual self again, and it seemed clear that it was only a matter of time before the UN Ambassador would speak again. After the message from Deirdre Skye, the time has come...

With an interesting smile, she stands up and speaks in a clear, musical voice.

"I must say, I find it interesting to hear that the Gaians have word that we wish to change our vote. We weren't aware of this, and so we would be interested in hearing how they know." Looking out the corner of her eye, she noted with satisfaction that she got the intended chuckle from Solo.

Changing back to a more serious attitude, she goes on.
"Our position in regards to the Planetary Governor Election remains a neutral one at this time. We do not support either candidate and have no official policy on how the matter should be resolved. We have abstained from voting and so we aren't really involved in the discussion. We will listen the arguments presented by both sides and we will try to help resolve the matter if we are called upon to do so, but we will not intervene at this time."

She turns to face the Spartan desk again.
"Mr. Solo, I have yet to hear a single reason why would need a new Charter. I still believe that properly enforcing the existing one would take care of the problems you have mentioned."
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Old October 28, 2001, 17:17   #235
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From: Lady Deirdre Skye
To: Planetary Council


My dear Zakharov, whatever happened to the 'repetition increases reliability' mantra so beloved of scientists? We do not believe the current results to be at all reliable, and as such believe that the vote should be repeated.

(She turns to Ambassador Isabella Fuentes)

My most sincere apologies, Ambassador Fuentes. Our information was indirect at best, and incorrect at worst. We did not intend to cause offence.
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Old October 28, 2001, 17:23   #236
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After hearing more complaints from Solo about the Pirates and his attempt to annoy Svensgaard, he was about to speak until he saw Commissioner Lal entering the Council. Soon later, so did Colonel Santiego. He grinned when Solo showed that look when Santiego grabed him. After it silent again, he raises up to speak:

Solo, what part of INTERFACTIONAL Peackeeping Task Force don't you understand? The proposal is to create the IPTF comprised of military units from various factions leaded by someone of the Council's choosing. That someone will be working for the Planetary Council, no one else. Meaning, the IPTF will enforce whatever rules and laws set by the Planetary Council, including the UN Charter. Anyway, it is just a Proposal which is still open for the Council to vote on.

All the factions that are part of the Planetary Council had to agree to follow all rules and laws set by the Council, inluding the UN Charter. So if the Spartans or any other faction wants to stay in the Council, they must obey the UN Charter. If you people have a problem with that, simply set a motion to remove it or change it. If your not please with the results of the vote, you cannot do anything about it.

Everyone here seem to forget that the Planetary Council as a Constitution, which is not surprising as we never had an election problem until now. The Constitution does state that in the event of a Stalemate, the abstainies would have to Vote one of the other of the candidates who have a tie. If that still results in a Stalemate or other problems, we are to have re-election which should be done now. Question it as you want, but all you factions have agreed to it when you joined the Council and no one can change it without a 3/4 majority. It is no one else's problem if you didn't bother to read it when you Agreed.

Before I finish *looking towards the University Ambassador*, will like to continue to state to the Council of the stupidity of some Ambassadors in the Council.

Captain Svensgaard

[OOC: Yes, i just bring up the Contitution out of nowhere :P but it is getting annoying and the elections is dragging way to long. Besides, would make sense for a Council to have a Contitution stating the rules of the Council. Complain as you want, I am still one the Moderators Darkcloud, nothing personal to you directly, just that Svensgaard doesn't take University seriously. ]
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Old October 28, 2001, 17:25   #237
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Oh, another thing. The Spartans continue to give the Nautilus Pirates way to much credit. If we had so much power like they say, there wouldn't be a Sparta at all to complain about it.

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Old October 28, 2001, 21:16   #238
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Quote:
All the factions that are part of the Planetary Council had to agree to follow all rules and laws set by the Council, inluding the UN Charter. So if the Spartans or any other faction wants to stay in the Council, they must obey the UN Charter. If you people have a problem with that, simply set a motion to remove it or change it. If your not please with the results of the vote, you cannot do anything about it.
From: Representative Solo
To: To Planetary Council

Please Captain. Spare us all the speech about following rules set up by the Council. The council also has very specific rules about factions occupying land of anther factions during times of peace. Your faction is a walking council violation. I tell you what. We will have another election if you follow the Councils rules on territory integrity and vacate Athens Outpost. Until then, don’t try to lecture Sparta on following the supposed rules of Council. I would ask DataJack Roze that if she were the Planetary Governor, would she actually enforce the rules and have the Pirates vacate Spartan territory. This is the whole reason that Colonel Santiago is running in the first place. If DataJack Roze would come out against Pirate occupation of Athens Outpost, which would simply mean following the rules, then Sparta would be more than happy to withdraw from the election. If not, we can only count on ourselves to act in defense of Sparta.

[OOC: I would assume that the Council would have some rules concerning this. If not, what good is it to begin with.]
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Old October 28, 2001, 22:03   #239
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Originally posted by Sprayber


From: Representative Solo
To: To Planetary Council

Please Captain. Spare us all the speech about following rules set up by the Council. The council also has very specific rules about factions occupying land of anther factions during times of peace. Your faction is a walking council violation. I tell you what. We will have another election if you follow the Councils rules on territory integrity and vacate Athens Outpost. Until then, don’t try to lecture Sparta on following the supposed rules of Council. I would ask DataJack Roze that if she were the Planetary Governor, would she actually enforce the rules and have the Pirates vacate Spartan territory. This is the whole reason that Colonel Santiago is running in the first place. If DataJack Roze would come out against Pirate occupation of Athens Outpost, which would simply mean following the rules, then Sparta would be more than happy to withdraw from the election. If not, we can only count on ourselves to act in defense of Sparta.
There isn't a single Pirate unit or outpost WITHIN Spartan territory. The Spartans seem to think they own the whole Eastern Continent. The sector which Athen Outpost is located isn't Spartan territory and it wasn't Spartan territory when the Athen Outpost was established. If we do ever leave Athen Outpost, that sector would go under Free Drone control. So the Pirates isn't violating the Charter. If the Spartans want to us to leave the Outpost, they will have to fight us off, but wait, they can't do that because THEY themselves would be violating the Charter. So whats the point of complaining? I thought you Spartans are Warriors, not whiners.

As for the Election, I suggest the Spartans and others to stop complaining over the matter and allow the abstainies to Vote or have a re-election as the Consitution suggests. If you don't like it, then lets have a vote now and then to Modify that rule in the Constitution. The Nautilus Pirates is tired of Council bickering without getting anything done. So lets Vote people.

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Old October 28, 2001, 23:28   #240
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From: Sau-ji Tseng
To: Planetary council

I am here today to deliver the proposal of the Hive central committee as regards the Planetary Council elections. The votes are tied. No one has been elected governor. Therefore, we suggest that no one should be governor. The planetary governor serves no real purpose. There is no need to give one leader veto power over the other members, and no reason to set one faction or its head above the others in controlling the Council's offices, indeed, that only harms the Council's position as a neutral arbiter. Therefore, the Hive suggests that for the next ten years, Planet go without a governor in the current sense of the word. The council officer with the highest rank and most seniority will serve as the head of the planetary bureaucracy, but he will not have veto power or any of the other perks of the Governor. We suggest that this system be installed for the next ten years, after which new elections can be held, or, if the factions of Chiron are fully satisfied with the functioning of the new system, it can be continued.
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