View Poll Results: Who will be CivIII's animated German leader?
CivII's anonymous "Frederick", but animated 2 3.45%
Heinrich the Fowler 0 0%
Otto the Great 1 1.72%
Frederick Barbarossa 5 8.62%
Frederick the Great 10 17.24%
Wilhelm I 2 3.45%
Otto von Bismarck 18 31.03%
Wilhelm II 1 1.72%
Adolf Hitler (Heavens no!) 16 27.59%
A woman! Probably Maria Theresa 3 5.17%
Voters: 58. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Thread Tools
Old August 4, 2001, 01:16   #1
Alexander I
staff
Scenario League / Civ2-CreationCivilization IV CreatorsCivilization IV: MultiplayerPolyCast Team
 
Alexander I's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:26
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Resident Mormon
Posts: 2,853
CivIII Animated leader-Germans
Who will be the animated leader for the Germans in CivIII? Tell us what you think!
Alexander I is offline  
Old August 4, 2001, 01:43   #2
Alex 14
Prince
 
Alex 14's Avatar
 
Local Time: 22:26
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Asia Pacific
Posts: 611
Adolf Hitler.
__________________
Alex
Alex 14 is offline  
Old August 4, 2001, 07:57   #3
Adagio
staff
Spore
Deity
 
Adagio's Avatar
 
Local Time: 14:26
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 11,112
I don't really know any of them, except for Adolf...and if it becomes Adolf, the Germans won't suvive one single game
__________________
This space is empty... or is it?
Adagio is offline  
Old August 4, 2001, 08:01   #4
Solver
lifer
Civilization IV CreatorsAge of Nations TeamApolytoners Hall of FamePolyCast TeamBtS Tri-LeagueThe Courts of Candle'BreC4WDG Team Apolyton
Deity
 
Solver's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:26
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Latvia, Riga
Posts: 18,355
If it will be Hitler, I'll trash the Germans. Fu*kitler was the worst person ever. I also have neverplayed Russians in Civ, because of their leader being Stalin (and BTW, that was USSR, not Russia).
__________________
Solver, WePlayCiv Co-Administrator
Contact: solver-at-weplayciv-dot-com
I can kill you whenever I please... but not today. - The Cigarette Smoking Man
Solver is offline  
Old August 4, 2001, 08:13   #5
Bereta_Eder
Settler
 
Bereta_Eder's Avatar
 
Local Time: 14:26
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 65,535
Quote:
Originally posted by Solver
, because of their leader being Stalin (and BTW, that was USSR, not Russia).
Good point Solver!!

I am almost certain it will not be Hitler. The Germans had great thinkers and statesmen, I think it will be someone from them.
Bereta_Eder is offline  
Old August 4, 2001, 08:50   #6
Solver
lifer
Civilization IV CreatorsAge of Nations TeamApolytoners Hall of FamePolyCast TeamBtS Tri-LeagueThe Courts of Candle'BreC4WDG Team Apolyton
Deity
 
Solver's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:26
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Latvia, Riga
Posts: 18,355
Yes, Barbarossa was just a conqueror, not so evil as Hitler, for example.
I don't know why was the Russians called Russians in Civ. They had cities like Minsk, Riga, Kiev, which are not Russian, but were Soviet at those times. And, Stalin was a Soviet ruler.
__________________
Solver, WePlayCiv Co-Administrator
Contact: solver-at-weplayciv-dot-com
I can kill you whenever I please... but not today. - The Cigarette Smoking Man
Solver is offline  
Old August 4, 2001, 09:01   #7
Rasputin
lifer
DiploGamesThe Courts of Candle'Bre
Deity
 
Rasputin's Avatar
 
Local Time: 22:26
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Between Coast and Mountains
Posts: 14,475
Apart from his Racial Hatred, I quite liked the way Hitler got power over the Germans and rose to become a great leader. If he hadnt been mad he may have ended up winning the war and we would all be typing in German now.....
__________________
GM of MAFIA #40 ,#41, #43, #45,#47,#49-#51,#53-#58,#61,#68,#70, #71
Rasputin is offline  
Old August 4, 2001, 09:04   #8
Al'Kimiya
Chieftain
 
Local Time: 13:26
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 81
Besides... Hitler was Austrian, not German.
Al'Kimiya is offline  
Old August 4, 2001, 09:08   #9
Kassiopeia
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameGalCiv Apolyton EmpireApolyton Storywriters' GuildCivilization II Democracy GameApolytoners Hall of FameACDG3 Spartans
Emperor
 
Kassiopeia's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:26
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Aperture Science Enrichment Center
Posts: 8,638
Hopefully not Chancellor Bismarck, he was the one who allowed Adolf to bcome the chancellor. He supported him and his ideals IMHO, as what I could determine with that history book at school. It will be Frederick the Great.
__________________
Cake and grief counseling will be available at the conclusion of the test. Thank you for helping us help you help us all!
Kassiopeia is offline  
Old August 4, 2001, 09:14   #10
Rasputin
lifer
DiploGamesThe Courts of Candle'Bre
Deity
 
Rasputin's Avatar
 
Local Time: 22:26
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Between Coast and Mountains
Posts: 14,475
perhaps they should use mutiple leaders to give players a choose. I never use the leader they propose any way and always add my own name isntead....
__________________
GM of MAFIA #40 ,#41, #43, #45,#47,#49-#51,#53-#58,#61,#68,#70, #71
Rasputin is offline  
Old August 4, 2001, 09:16   #11
Martinus
Prince
 
Martinus's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:26
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Warsaw, European Union
Posts: 938
Quote:
Originally posted by kassiopeia
Hopefully not Chancellor Bismarck, he was the one who allowed Adolf to bcome the chancellor. He supported him and his ideals IMHO, as what I could determine with that history book at school. It will be Frederick the Great.
Well, it must have been a great history book, since Hitler was born in 1889 and Bismarck died in 1898 . I think you may be confusing him with Hindenburg.

But I also think it should be one of the Fredericks - actually, I would opt for Barbarossa, as leaders such as Frederick the Great (or Maria Theresa for that matter) did not rule Germany but Prussia (and Austria) respectively.
__________________
The problem with leadership is inevitably: Who will play God?
- Frank Herbert
Martinus is offline  
Old August 4, 2001, 09:19   #12
Solver
lifer
Civilization IV CreatorsAge of Nations TeamApolytoners Hall of FamePolyCast TeamBtS Tri-LeagueThe Courts of Candle'BreC4WDG Team Apolyton
Deity
 
Solver's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:26
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Latvia, Riga
Posts: 18,355
Then it just becomes the question of what was the country name at that time.
__________________
Solver, WePlayCiv Co-Administrator
Contact: solver-at-weplayciv-dot-com
I can kill you whenever I please... but not today. - The Cigarette Smoking Man
Solver is offline  
Old August 4, 2001, 09:21   #13
Eagle one
Settler
 
Eagle one's Avatar
 
Local Time: 12:26
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Austria
Posts: 13
Just the facts
Marie Theresia was empress of Austria. So she cannot be the leader of the Germans.

But it's true that Hitler was born in Austria (1889 in Braunau). After he has failed to study in Vienna (Austria) he went to Germany (1913 Munich).
Eagle one is offline  
Old August 4, 2001, 09:23   #14
Martinus
Prince
 
Martinus's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:26
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Warsaw, European Union
Posts: 938
Quote:
Originally posted by Solver
Then it just becomes the question of what was the country name at that time.
The problem with Germany as a civilization is that there was no such country for the most time.

At first at least there was the Holy Roman Empire, so the Emperor may be considered such a ruler - and Barbarossa was Emperor.

But after that it degenerated. And consider that Maria Theresa and Frederick the Great ruled during the same time - one in Prussia and one in Austria, with dozens of other German states, like Bavaria, Saxony or Pfalz ruled by independent rulers.

So, if we choose a ruler from before the unification of Germany in late 19th century, it should be some Emperor (like Otto, Barbarossa or the Fowler).
__________________
The problem with leadership is inevitably: Who will play God?
- Frank Herbert
Martinus is offline  
Old August 4, 2001, 09:25   #15
Solver
lifer
Civilization IV CreatorsAge of Nations TeamApolytoners Hall of FamePolyCast TeamBtS Tri-LeagueThe Courts of Candle'BreC4WDG Team Apolyton
Deity
 
Solver's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:26
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Latvia, Riga
Posts: 18,355
Well, Israel also appeared in 20th century, but Jews have been a lognway before it.
__________________
Solver, WePlayCiv Co-Administrator
Contact: solver-at-weplayciv-dot-com
I can kill you whenever I please... but not today. - The Cigarette Smoking Man
Solver is offline  
Old August 4, 2001, 09:26   #16
Martinus
Prince
 
Martinus's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:26
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Warsaw, European Union
Posts: 938
Re: Just the facts
Quote:
Originally posted by Eagle one
Marie Theresia was empress of Austria. So she cannot be the leader of the Germans.

But it's true that Hitler was born in Austria (1889 in Braunau). After he has failed to study in Vienna (Austria) he went to Germany (1913 Munich).
Well, Maria Theresa was theoretically the Holy Roman Empress of the German Nation (since the crown belonged to Hapsburgs back then). And, Austria was considered a part of Germany (along with Bohemia). But I agree it shouldn't be her.
__________________
The problem with leadership is inevitably: Who will play God?
- Frank Herbert
Martinus is offline  
Old August 4, 2001, 09:28   #17
Martinus
Prince
 
Martinus's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:26
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Warsaw, European Union
Posts: 938
Quote:
Originally posted by Solver
Well, Israel also appeared in 20th century, but Jews have been a lognway before it.
Yes, I have no problem with that. I was only saying that Germany's name back than was not Prussia or Austria, as both Prussia or Austria were part of the German Reich.
__________________
The problem with leadership is inevitably: Who will play God?
- Frank Herbert
Martinus is offline  
Old August 4, 2001, 09:31   #18
Solver
lifer
Civilization IV CreatorsAge of Nations TeamApolytoners Hall of FamePolyCast TeamBtS Tri-LeagueThe Courts of Candle'BreC4WDG Team Apolyton
Deity
 
Solver's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:26
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Latvia, Riga
Posts: 18,355
That's right. Luckily, it makes no problem to play the game.
__________________
Solver, WePlayCiv Co-Administrator
Contact: solver-at-weplayciv-dot-com
I can kill you whenever I please... but not today. - The Cigarette Smoking Man
Solver is offline  
Old August 4, 2001, 10:18   #19
Alexander I
staff
Scenario League / Civ2-CreationCivilization IV CreatorsCivilization IV: MultiplayerPolyCast Team
 
Alexander I's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:26
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Resident Mormon
Posts: 2,853
I think everyone's forgetting a few things. Bismarck didn't support Hitler, and neither did Hindenburg - Hindenburg had to make Hitler the Chancellor because he was elected. Hindenburg even said he didn't want to see a Bohemian corporal became Chancellor of Germany.

And in CivII, the Russian male leader was Lenin.
And the German female leader was Maria Theresa.

AND there have been lots of butchers much worse than Hitler- he's just the most famous.

Hitler had 12 million people killed.
Stalin had 30 million.
Mao had over 60 million.

Genghis Khan wanted to depopulate China as a huge pasture for his horses - literally! until one of his generals stopped him.

You shouldn't focus only on Hitler. Just about every nation has had some bad eggs.
Alexander I is offline  
Old August 4, 2001, 10:23   #20
Martinus
Prince
 
Martinus's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:26
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Warsaw, European Union
Posts: 938
Good post, Alexander
__________________
The problem with leadership is inevitably: Who will play God?
- Frank Herbert
Martinus is offline  
Old August 4, 2001, 10:28   #21
Sabre2th
King
 
Sabre2th's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:26
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,691
It's true that most countries have had bad leaders, but Hitler does seem to rise above most of them.
Sabre2th is offline  
Old August 4, 2001, 10:30   #22
Wernazuma III
Spanish CiversCivilization III PBEMNationStates
Emperor
 
Wernazuma III's Avatar
 
Local Time: 14:26
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,512
Judging from the screenshot posted in the "Just the facts madame"-thread it will be Maria Theresia.

A clarification for those who say Maria Theresia was ruling Austria: That's not absolutely right. She also ruled Austria but through her husband Franz Stephan she was quasi Empress of the Holy Empire of German Nation. Until 1804, the habsburgs were german emperors and not austrian emperors. The Austrian empire "officially" started in 1806.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm no german nationalist, but that's just fact: Until 1804, Austria was an official part of Germany and no one had a problem with that. After WWI, the vast majority of the Austrians felt german ("the 2nd german state"). We all have to remember that this was before Hitler and has nothing to do with what happened then.
__________________
"The world is too small in Vorarlberg". Austrian ex-vice-chancellor Hubert Gorbach in a letter to Alistar [sic] Darling, looking for a job...
"Let me break this down for you, fresh from algebra II. A 95% chance to win 5 times means a (95*5) chance to win = 475% chance to win." Wiglaf, Court jester or hayseed, you judge.
Wernazuma III is offline  
Old August 4, 2001, 10:35   #23
Martinus
Prince
 
Martinus's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:26
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Warsaw, European Union
Posts: 938
You are right WernazumaIII. I was saying (at least I think so) the same a couple of posts before - Austria was (and to some extent culturally still is) a part of German civilization.
__________________
The problem with leadership is inevitably: Who will play God?
- Frank Herbert
Martinus is offline  
Old August 4, 2001, 10:37   #24
Wernazuma III
Spanish CiversCivilization III PBEMNationStates
Emperor
 
Wernazuma III's Avatar
 
Local Time: 14:26
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,512
Quote:
Originally posted by Alexander01
Hindenburg even said he didn't want to see a Bohemian corporal became Chancellor of Germany.
Only because he confused Braunau in Austria with Braunau in Bohemia


And Alexander: Stop comparing badass with badass, madman with madman. Hitler's crimes where unique, as Stalin's where et al.
The combination of technocratic trying to make several genocides, launching the biggest war ever seems to be uncomparable.
I don't think that Russians should say "But Hitler was worse than Stalin!", so us germans and austrians shouldn't do it the other way around.
__________________
"The world is too small in Vorarlberg". Austrian ex-vice-chancellor Hubert Gorbach in a letter to Alistar [sic] Darling, looking for a job...
"Let me break this down for you, fresh from algebra II. A 95% chance to win 5 times means a (95*5) chance to win = 475% chance to win." Wiglaf, Court jester or hayseed, you judge.
Wernazuma III is offline  
Old August 4, 2001, 11:05   #25
Martinus
Prince
 
Martinus's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:26
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Warsaw, European Union
Posts: 938
Quote:
I don't think that Russians should say "But Hitler was worse than Stalin!", so us germans and austrians shouldn't do it the other way around.
Yes, but we Poles can say both were equally bad
__________________
The problem with leadership is inevitably: Who will play God?
- Frank Herbert
Martinus is offline  
Old August 4, 2001, 11:27   #26
Alexander I
staff
Scenario League / Civ2-CreationCivilization IV CreatorsCivilization IV: MultiplayerPolyCast Team
 
Alexander I's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:26
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Resident Mormon
Posts: 2,853
Yes, all the despots' crimes were unique. But I do not hold the view that Hitler was the worst of them all. During the Second World War, Finland actually turned to Hitler for help against Stalin and the Soviets.

I don't support what any of them did, mind you.

(Incidentally, Russia still has THEIR half of Poland)

Also, Montgomery and Patton were ready to press on for moscow after taking Berlin, but the Allied command were patsies to Stalin.

I think Hitler stands out just because he lost a war and had all his crimes revealed to the world.

All these madmen do the dirty work in secret - just because the others aren't publicized as much doesn't make them better.

I'm tired of people only looking to the Germans as villains. Yes, I'm German. So what? I'm no Nazi. Yes, I've actually been mistreated by Jewish people who want to make up for the Holocaust by taking it out on me and other Germans. I don't support what any of these insanely wicked men did, but I don't think we should single any one of them out as worse. They're all unique, but they're all in the same boat.
Alexander I is offline  
Old August 4, 2001, 11:41   #27
Bereta_Eder
Settler
 
Bereta_Eder's Avatar
 
Local Time: 14:26
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 65,535
Quote:
Originally posted by Alexander01
I'm tired of people only looking to the Germans as villains. Yes, I'm German. So what? I'm no Nazi. Yes, I've actually been mistreated by Jewish people who want to make up for the Holocaust by taking it out on me and other Germans.
No one is saying that. It is very passee if you will We are a whole new generation
I think german culture is not very well respresented in Europe and that is a shame. You have great philisophers and statesmen as well as litterary writers.

But I do consider Hitler to be the worse ever. (although it must be all the greek villages the Nazis burned down as repayment for the guerilla resistance after we defeated the italians and the germans came over).
Bereta_Eder is offline  
Old August 4, 2001, 11:48   #28
Eagle one
Settler
 
Eagle one's Avatar
 
Local Time: 12:26
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Austria
Posts: 13
About Austria
Quote:
Now don't get me wrong, I'm no german nationalist, but that's just fact: Until 1804, Austria was an official part of Germany and no one had a problem with that. After WWI, the vast majority of the Austrians felt german ("the 2nd german state"). We all have to remember that this was before Hitler and has nothing to do with what happened then.
After WWI, a majority of the Austrians even wanted to get part of Germany. They called it "Deutsch-Österreich" (German-Austria). But the Allies forbid the connection.
Eagle one is offline  
Old August 4, 2001, 12:00   #29
Wernazuma III
Spanish CiversCivilization III PBEMNationStates
Emperor
 
Wernazuma III's Avatar
 
Local Time: 14:26
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,512
Quote:
Originally posted by Martinus

Yes, but we Poles can say both were equally bad

Granted, and "Noch ist Polen nicht verloren" ("Poland is not lost yet"; isn't that from your hymn or is this a myth?)
__________________
"The world is too small in Vorarlberg". Austrian ex-vice-chancellor Hubert Gorbach in a letter to Alistar [sic] Darling, looking for a job...
"Let me break this down for you, fresh from algebra II. A 95% chance to win 5 times means a (95*5) chance to win = 475% chance to win." Wiglaf, Court jester or hayseed, you judge.
Wernazuma III is offline  
Old August 4, 2001, 12:10   #30
Wernazuma III
Spanish CiversCivilization III PBEMNationStates
Emperor
 
Wernazuma III's Avatar
 
Local Time: 14:26
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,512
Quote:
Originally posted by Alexander01

I think Hitler stands out just because he lost a war and had all his crimes revealed to the world.
cause he was so mad that he didn't know where to stop. but you're right with the point.

Quote:
I'm tired of people only looking to the Germans as villains. Yes, I'm German. So what? I'm no Nazi. Yes, I've actually been mistreated by Jewish people who want to make up for the Holocaust by taking it out on me and other Germans. I don't support what any of these insanely wicked men did, but I don't think we should single any one of them out as worse. They're all unique, but they're all in the same boat.
No, not all germans are villains of course. I'm austrian and don't feel a personal guilt either. Still the rememberance is important and sometimes you only have to scratch the surface off of "normal" people here and you'll find old opinions hidden - even in our generation. Collectivizing the guilt on our generation is ridiculous however, there we agree. I've had a couple of confrontations with jewish people about that but always could make my point. But surely the fun is over when e.g. I wouldn't get a certain job just for being austrian...
__________________
"The world is too small in Vorarlberg". Austrian ex-vice-chancellor Hubert Gorbach in a letter to Alistar [sic] Darling, looking for a job...
"Let me break this down for you, fresh from algebra II. A 95% chance to win 5 times means a (95*5) chance to win = 475% chance to win." Wiglaf, Court jester or hayseed, you judge.
Wernazuma III is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:26.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team