Sucking at OCC

Jule · January 20, 2001, 04:10

Im having fun with this, but the AI keeps beating me to Alpha Centauri. Last time I was sure Id won till one of em launched a ship way after mine that beat me by -one- year. Earlier tonight they launched later and beat me by about 8 years, but that doesnt hurt as much as when you are sure you finally won.

Anyway, I am looking for suggestions as to how to handle the end game. Ive been getting the 80 shields, and even have had extra caravans when it gets to components and modules. Maybe Im not blowing the AI away enough in the midgame. My gameplay has improved so much after reading these boards. I used to never even try diety, then won AC easily with an 8 city perfectionist strategy. The OCC has me tho.

Scouse Gits · January 20, 2001, 05:42

I don't know if you have read Paul's guide. Follow this advice and you will start winning. http://members.home.nl/paulvdb/occ.htm
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SG(2)

Chris 62 · January 20, 2001, 07:59

Try this: keep a carrier with choppers and nukes near ALL AI capitols working on space ships. If the capital is inland, try to have city close enough for an airbourne drop. After your launch, pay attention to who's building. If they launch, NUKE their capitol and follow up with the chopper or the paratrooper. Without their capitol, the spaceship is recalled and cannot be rebuilt until they establish a new capitol. If your in a gov that doesn't permit sneak attacks simply go into revolt, and attack! You don't even have to hold the city, as your occupation DESTROYS their palace! That will show them you mean buissiness!
[This message has been edited by cpoulos (edited January 20, 2001).]

Laertes · January 20, 2001, 11:49

Getting one launched is not sucking! I have not got that far yet, (have managed to build 5-10 stucturals) and I do not want to contemplate the thought of being on some sub-sucking level!

Cannes · January 22, 2001, 10:14

quote:

Originally posted by cpoulos on 01-20-2001 06:59 AM
Try this: keep a carrier with choppers and nukes near ALL AI capitols working on space ships. If the capital is inland, try to have city close enough for an airbourne drop. After your launch, pay attention to who's building. If they launch, NUKE their capitol and follow up with the chopper or the paratrooper. Without their capitol, the spaceship is recalled and cannot be rebuilt until they establish a new capitol. If your in a gov that doesn't permit sneak attacks simply go into revolt, and attack! You don't even have to hold the city, as your occupation DESTROYS their palace! That will show them you mean buissiness!
[This message has been edited by cpoulos (edited January 20, 2001).]

You will have a difficult time getting all this done in an OCC game. You can't waste shields on things you might not need in the OCC.
Back to the original comment. I too have just tried OCC and following the GL advice, but I'm also having a difficult time in winning the last time I tried I launched but too late. On the turn after my launch: Sneack attack by the chinese lost my city and end game

I think what you need to do is really picomanage your resources for optimal science growth so that you develop way ahead of AI. Don't accept any advances that you wont need, because they will slow you down... I am of course just speculating since I too have never won an OCC game, maybe some of the more experienced players would like to comment?

[This message has been edited by Cannes (edited January 22, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Cannes (edited January 22, 2001).]

Ming · January 22, 2001, 10:21

quote:

Originally posted by cpoulos on 01-20-2001 06:59 AM
If they launch, NUKE their capitol and follow up with the chopper or the paratrooper. Without their capitol, the spaceship is recalled and cannot be rebuilt until they establish a new capitol.

Yeah... anybody wasting shields on nukes, choppers, and paratroopers in a OCC game doesn't really understand the concept

La Fayette · January 23, 2001, 09:55

There is no chopper in my civilopedia.
The only chopper I know is that kind of motorbike that I don't feel like riding (though I'm very fond of riding motorbikes).
My dictionary states that it might be a helicopter.
Is that so ?

Scouse Gits · January 23, 2001, 10:27

Yes La Fayette, 'chopper' is a slang term for a helicopter.

If you are playing OCC on v2.42 it is perfectly possible to gain alliances with all civilisations that might get near you and maintain them until launch - don't be affraid to gift techs to the AI - it only slows down their research and speeds up yours!
Any shields spent on defence (or offence) are wasted and should be avoided - normally you can get adequate protection from a few NON units - in extremis invest in a diplo, but try to opperate with the absolute minimum of military units - this way you appear weak to the AI and they pay less attention to you. Combined Arms is definitely not on the recommended tech path.
Most of the above is also valid in MGE, but you have to tread very carefully indeed - a viable strategy in 2.42 is to exchange maps and request gifts on alternate turns - this will provide you with enough cash to run a deficit budget and squeeze a few more beakers out of your scientists. In MGE they will terminate the alliance - so you can't get as much income by this route.

If you have read the Paulicy - as referenced above - you should then have a look at some of the OCC logs that are in the various fortnightly competition threads - you will see that we adhere to the Paulicy with absolute devotion unless there is a compelling reason to deviate.

Keep a log - it helps to focus your mind. Play some of the fortnight games or the challenge starts from the back of the Paulicy - then post your log and let the experts help.

The above is all general - you ask specifically about the end-game. At about Automobile or even earlier you should have a massive tech momentum and from this point be getting techs no slower than every three turns - you do everything possible to maintain this rate and leave the AI in the dust - once you reach Space Flight it is now 40 turns to landing so everything MUST be in place loads of caravans ready to help build wonders - cash surplus etc. during this phase speed is your greatest advantage - the AI WILL send in his dips and spies - try to keep them out, but they are quite pervasive - but unless forced keep on the production path 1 SS comp/mod/struct per turn - build the minimum 17-3-3-1-1-1 (from memory) ship and get it off! Then turn to defence - or even offence.

Good civin' and continue to enjoy OCC

East Street Trader · January 24, 2001, 08:19

Jule

From some of the comments in various threads, I think the general view when the challenge was first bruited was that it was impossible. And those who attempted it early on had your experience.

Then Paul developed the Paulicy and that showed the way.

I play an OCC or two but generally prefer the normal game. However reading Paul's account of his method marks the beginning of a new epoch in my appreciation of the game generally. What is so striking about the Paulicy is the intense focus that is achieved. Every move made is devoted, single mindedly to the end in view. Nothing is wasted.

Nowadays I play each game in the hope that I can first define a clear objective and then devise a route to its achievement that is as economical.

Of course tactical opportunities must be recognised and exploited. But they must not lead into blind alleys.

So stick to the Paulicy when next you try OCC and you will triumph.

But if this gives you the urge to do really well, prepare for some TIME CONSUMING micromanagement. You will start to see endless limes of beakers in your sleep and will ruin your eyes peering blearily with your nose pressed against the screen.

Theben · January 31, 2001, 05:31

"but try to opperate with the absolute minimum of military units - this way you appear weak to the AI and they pay less attention to you."

I have to disagree- usually there will at least 1 civ who has it out for you, because you are allied with an enemy. I find that building 1 or 2 "fully modern" (age defined) units will turn that "enraged" down to "uncooperative" pretty quick.

Obviously one doesn't want to do this, but I find it necessary 2 or 3 times a game.

January 31, 2001, 05:43

Yup I also agree with EST that conforming the Paulicy makes you triumph in OCC.. I've won my two first OCC when I first read carefully Paul's excellent OCC guide!

Tizzy · January 31, 2001, 07:42

quote:

Originally posted by Theben on 01-31-2001 04:31 AM
"but try to opperate with the absolute minimum of military units - this way you appear weak to the AI and they pay less attention to you."

I have to disagree- usually there will at least 1 civ who has it out for you, because you are allied with an enemy.

I'll second that. I've rarely lost an OCC because I didn't land my ship quickly enough, it's nearly always because other Civs get fed up with me refusing to declare war on their enemies. It was the Greeks last night!
I sometimes do declare war, to keep the powerful Civ happy, but only if the one I'm declaring war on isn't on my piece of land. There isn't time to let a few turns go by and get into peace again if they're in your back garden.

Scouse Gits · January 31, 2001, 10:22

[spirited defence]Diplomacy is cheaper than Arms! I have rarely been unable to keep any AI placated in 2.42 - give them enough techs and they love you - it is very tempting to take the 600g for declaring war on the arch enemy ... but it doesn't pay in the long term. Be at peace with the world and race to AC. [/spirited defence]

p.s. where does it say build modern defensive units in the Paulicy?

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

Lefty Scaevola · January 31, 2001, 11:20

I just played my first OCC try, in MGE, and was wiped out by a flood of tanks in 1920.

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Gaius Mucius Scaevola Sinistra
Pontificator Pendanticus
older richer & wiser than you
Did I mention that I like spellcheckers?

East Street Trader · January 31, 2001, 11:28

IIRC straight after it says, "once you have launched your spaceship".

Also, even before that point, a few units (from huts) can assist in the task of keeping non allied A1 units from sitting on your specials.

I have managed perpetually to maintain an alliance with every single A1 civ with which I am in contact in OCC but you can't expect to do it every single time.

Theben · January 31, 2001, 15:19

quote:

Originally posted by Scouse Gits on 01-31-2001 09:22 AM
[spirited defence]Diplomacy is cheaper than Arms! I have rarely been unable to keep any AI placated in 2.42 - give them enough techs and they love you - it is very tempting to take the 600g for declaring war on the arch enemy ... but it doesn't pay in the long term. Be at peace with the world and race to AC. [/spirited defence]

I play 2.78- IIRC the AI is a little meaner than 2.42 (and MGE is worse).
I don't take the money for declaring war, which makes them unhappy. Then I give a tech or 2 and they're back to worshipful. It isn't my ally that's the problem, it's his ENEMY, who refuses to become happier than neutral.

quote:

p.s. where does it say build modern defensive units in the Paulicy?

"Adherence to a strict formula can be a straitjacket as well as a guide."

What I did worked under the circumstances.

Scouse Gits · February 1, 2001, 08:17

Circumstances almost always determine actions - of course. What I was trying to say is that if you find yourself forced to build modern military units before launch you are wasting valuable turns and shields. sometimes this is forced upon you, but it should be avoided if possible. Strategically placed NON-units can keep the wolf from the door even when they are mere Archers and Legions facing Armour upto the point when war is actually declared - if this happens and they can get to you - you have lost either by brutal conquest or by the simple fact that you are forced so far from the Paulicy by fighting a defensive war that you landing date is dire even if it is still the first!

In summary - try to minimise your military presence (ideally have no supported military units). This is not always possible, but certainly worth striving to attain. I am not the master here - but look at the logs of paul and latterly Ribbanah - the watchword is focus (and not on military matters).

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven