victory on emperor - thanks to all

lord of the mark · January 31, 2001, 10:03

Thanks to all (especially Edward)for their advice on peaceful high level tech and wonder sequences.

I played on medium real world map, as russians, with 4 other civs, (germans. spanish, persians and zulus) restless tribes. Emperor level. Got bronze working at start.

I tried strategy outlined here and achieved supreme around 100 BC. Lost some momentum, was briefly passed by zulus. got ahead again around 900 AD. moved further ahead, but by 1850 realized tech pace was too slow for AC. (i sorta left the strat and went on my own after Republic) So i switched to military strat, Leos and SOL, went fundie, and won by conquest 1931.

Not quite a peaceful win, but my first win on emperor!!

On to diety!!!

Scouse Gits · January 31, 2001, 10:13

Congratulations - but do give ICS a go ...

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____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

East Street Trader · January 31, 2001, 12:03

No, don't give ICS a go. It is an ABOMINATION I say an ABOMINATION.

The Zulus are worthy opponents. The Germans and Persians scarcely less so.

Mount Olympos beckons. Burn that midnight oil and GET THERE.

The Olympians will keep a tankard ready for your arrival and rehearse a paean of victory in your honour.

I recognonise that moment in a game when you lose impetus. Somehow there seems to be such a moment in each game and you have to sit back and try to re-think the next strategic objective.

Luckily that moment is sometimes matched by the moment when, suddenly, the game stops being an uphill struggle and instead you find that tech advances are rolling in every turn or two, cash in the bank looks healthier by the moment, your citizens start announcing what happy chappies they are instead of moaning all the time and military matters start looking after themselves.

That the dividing line between the one case and the other is narrow is one of the attractions of the game.

Wiglaf · January 31, 2001, 18:31

Great job, LOTM

!

I agree, head out to deity! The only problem is the revolts, that'll give you a headache or two

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The fault lies not in our SMAC, but in our stars.
~ Vanguard, February 2, 2000.

Ming · January 31, 2001, 19:07

Congratulations... Whether you land on AC, or just beat the snot out of everybody... GREAT JOB!

Now that you have mastered the stupid AI... it's time for you to play humans

Scouse Gits · January 31, 2001, 20:12

quote:

Originally posted by East Street Trader on 01-31-2001 11:03 AM
I recognonise that moment in a game when you lose impetus. Somehow there seems to be such a moment in each game and you have to sit back and try to re-think the next strategic objective.

Never happens in ICS!! Just build another 10 cities which will build another 10 caravans/Ironclads or Knights.

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SG(2)

February 1, 2001, 07:00

Lord of the mark, congratulations from me too! And good luck to your next deity challenge! Have you already thought what strategy you are going to choose? ICS, OCC or maybe perfectionist?

I have never played earth map and I'm thinking of playing England at deity/raging hordes. Someone told me that it would be the hardest

lord of the mark · February 1, 2001, 15:15

yes i have started a game on diety, trying a similar peaceful, expansionist strategy (size 5?)

Diety, Chinese, restless, full size earth map,5 civs.

I got great start, alphabet and ceremonial, 2 settlers. Quick tech jump. then blundered into war with indians, fell off my direction and fell to last
gave up at 200 AD.

Couldnt resist that great start, fortunately had saved around 3000 BC, so have played over form there (sorta cheating, but oh well)have stayed in peace, number 2 (to greeks) in power at 400AD, good tech lead. Have colussus and HG, building copernicus. (greeks have lighthouse, aztecs have pyramids) Researching monotheism, to build mikes.

Bereta_Eder · February 1, 2001, 22:58

OK, this is stupid. I play at emperor all the time and I win all the time.

Time for Deity like lord of the mark.

I don't want to read any of the guides I have downloaded (just wanna find out meself).

But just one question before I go to the final level:

Is Hanging Gardens equally important as Mike in Deity?

February 1, 2001, 23:46

You wimp, Lord of the Mark. You think winning at Emperor is a big achievement? Are you retarded?

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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.

Theben · February 2, 2001, 01:43

AH, for you turning on the computer is an achievement.

Smash · February 2, 2001, 01:51

quote:

Is Hanging Gardens equally important as Mike in Deity?

Yes.If you are an expansionist then doubly so.

February 2, 2001, 04:50

quote:

Originally posted by paiktis22 on 02-01-2001 09:58 PM
Is Hanging Gardens equally important as Mike in Deity?

It's very important, you really get hard time without it. Especially, if you play ICS it's mandatory! A nice trick in ICS: when you have say over 21 cities you probably have two black pirates in 2-sized city. Then if you have ONLY HG as happiness wonder and NO military units in city HG ALWAYS converts that first black pirate to a happy face and you got a content city!

February 2, 2001, 06:13

quote:

<font size=1>Originally posted by Alexander's Horse on 02-01-2001 10:46 PM</font>
You think winning at Emperor is a big achievement?

My following remark is totally unnecessary because I believe that you intelligent folks here at Apolyton can give the AH's statement the value it deserves

Nevertheless, I want to say this:

Winning the FIRST time at emperor IS a big achievement to ALL of us. Civ2 has so many features that mastering it demands playing many many games moving forward to harder levels. I'm sure that almost all here agree with me.

Besides, not all of us have played Civ2 from the start.. I started with it last autumn when I got the game from second-hand market. I DID play Civ1 a lot a few years ago so learning Civ2 was much quicker than if I had started with no experience of TBS-games.

So, Lord of the mark, be proud of your achievement and just ignore AH!

[This message has been edited by Marko_Polo (edited February 02, 2001).]

oedo · February 2, 2001, 08:53

quote:

Originally posted by lord of the mark on 01-31-2001 09:03 AM

Thanks to all (especially Edward)for their advice on peaceful high level tech and wonder sequences.

I played on medium real world map, as russians, with 4 other civs, (germans. spanish, persians and zulus) restless tribes. Emperor level. Got bronze working at start.

I tried strategy outlined here and achieved supreme around 100 BC. Lost some momentum, was briefly passed by zulus. got ahead again around 900 AD. moved further ahead, but by 1850 realized tech pace was too slow for AC. (i sorta left the strat and went on my own after Republic) So i switched to military strat, Leos and SOL, went fundie, and won by conquest 1931.

Not quite a peaceful win, but my first win on emperor!!

On to diety!!!

And here´s the best news: deity is easier than emperor because of the two settlers you start with. go for hanging gardens and never become tired founding new cities. then it will be no problem.

East Street Trader · February 2, 2001, 14:17

Marko

Don't worry too much about Horse. He is the official Apolyton troll (that is a guy who posts with the sole intention of provocation). Thing is, he got the title (I'll whisper this in case he's listening) by being one of the nicest guys around.

He's also a reasonably prolific poster so even if Lord of the Mark hasn't come across him much yet he soon will. Assuredly so if he makes a visit or two to off topic.

After a bit, its kind of hard to be much offended or outraged - although we try so as to keep the poor fellow's trolling spirits up. So well done with the response.

[/whisper]

Horse. Know you not that the Lord of the Mark is beloved of Shadowfax and your fellows in the great herds of Rohan? I fear you have besmirched an ancient friendship with this trollish slight. You will be lucky if Gandalf does not consign you to live out your miserable days in a drafty cave with naught but an ancient shin bone to chew on.

Edit to adda point on the Gardens. I am no sleazer so can live without the Gardens happily enough. But if you do have them I rather like the permanent celebration which the three happy faces in the city with the Gardens in brings. Early on this means that the Gardens are also acting a bit like the Collosus. And Gardens PLUS Collosus can be awesome.

The point though, is to mention that you do want to keep three martial law units in that city otherwise an unhappy is likely to appear and to interupt the celebration.
[This message has been edited by East Street Trader (edited February 02, 2001).]

Bereta_Eder · February 2, 2001, 14:28

quote:

Originally posted by Edward on 02-02-2001 12:42 PM
Paiktis22: Once you have the Hanging Gardens, units in a city will actually make the city less happy (they confuse and mess up the Gardens' effect).

FFS

How can this be explained? The soldiers get mesmerised by the gardens or the awe of them and forget to beat down the citizens?

Or they feel more comfortable with the wonder and they again forget to do their job?

Ah... the grander of Mike's Chapel

Of course the challenge is to play WITHOUT any wonders

I'll give this a try in Deity (much later

)

Thanx guys.

Bereta_Eder · February 2, 2001, 21:55

Got it - conquest - HG made it all possible!

(I saw some crazy things to the happiness roster of some of my cities - I was actually afraid to play perfectionist because I wasn't sure I could keep all the cities in one piece!)

I didn't notice anything different in comparison to emperor (happiness ecluded) except that the AI units were actually TOUGHER to destroy? (or maybe it's my idea).

Scouse Gits · February 2, 2001, 23:10

Well done player (punter)-- it really is not that hard once you have done it a few times!! Amazing how easily the impossible can be performed!

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____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

Theben · February 2, 2001, 23:24

They shouldn't be any tougher to destroy, except that barb units will have a higher ATT strength. Also AI growth, construction, research, etc., will be faster.

Bereta_Eder · February 2, 2001, 23:27

Let me tell you disresputable person from Liverpool

, the first two times I've tried I was calculating to the last detail.

And did that matter? No. The russians kicked my butt and my calculations with it while I was trying to gain control of my psychotic citizens.

So the third (and lucky as we say) time I just built HG and played one of my most aggresive games ever.

From that point on there was no turning back: world conquest or the whole empire would fold back on itself

The next time I am going to try my favorite way of playing: perfectionism - even if it kills me

Edward · February 3, 2001, 01:42

Congrats, lord of the mark! As Marko_Polo said, that first emperor victory feels wonderful. You should be proud.

Don't pay too much attention to how the game rates your power - especially in the early years. An early peaceful expansionist will start out with small cities, few units, and low "power". You'll blow by those AI in the later years when you stop expanding and start growing.

Paiktis22: Is Hanging Gardens "equally important as Mike" in Deity? No. You can struggle along without the Hanging Gardens until Michaelangelo's Chapel comes up. However, as others have stated, the Hanging Gardens can be very helpful in deity since happiness is such a big concern. In fact I've changed my research order to Monarchy, Trade, Colossus, Hanging Gardens. One warning - Civ2 implements the Hanging Gardens very oddly. Usually under monarchy, more units in your city make it happier. Once you have the Hanging Gardens, units in a city will actually make the city less happy (they confuse and mess up the Gardens' effect). Once you get the Hanging Gardens, don't have more than one military unit in any city (unless of course they're needed for defense). Once you get Michaelangelo's Cathedral you can beef up your border cities with units again.

p.s. for lord of the mark: When I laid out those guidelines, I didn't realize that incremental rush building of caravans is cheaper than rush building wonders. Now I'd suggest either getting together enough caravans to build the wonder before you even have the tech (# caravans = shield cost of wonder / 50) or max your taxes and rush buy caravans (instead of waiting to have enough gold to rush buy the wonder). Units (like the caravan) are very expensive to rush buy from just a couple shields because the more unit shields you rush buy in one pop, the more they cost per shield. However if you cheat and pretend that you want to build say a warrior - it only costs 2 gold per shield (much less than the 4 gold per shield for a wonder). Change to a warrior and rush buy it. Then immediately rush buy a phalanx. (Again, the computer lets you buy those "last" few shields cheaply.) Then buy an elephant or diplomat. Rush buy an engineer. Finally rush buy that caravan. You'll save a lot of gold during your accelerated wonder completion.

Sounds like your current game is going well. Good luck on deity!

MBloomIII · February 3, 2001, 08:58

quote:

<font size=1>Originally posted by Edward on 02-02-2001 12:42 PM</font>

Usually under monarchy, more units in your city make it happier. Once you have the Hanging Gardens, units in a city will actually make the city less happy (they confuse and mess up the Gardens' effect). Once you get the Hanging Gardens, don't have more than one military unit in any city (unless of course they're needed for defense). Once you get Michaelangelo's Cathedral you can beef up your border cities with units again.

It's like..man..what's up with all the fuzz trying to keep us down, man. Dude, we got THE GARDENS to keep us happy. We don't need THE MAN trying to beat us down. What's so funny 'bout Peace, Love, and Understanding? Hey man, who's got the Dorito's?

Peace!
[This message has been edited by MBloomIII (edited February 03, 2001).]

February 3, 2001, 10:37

Oh COME ON! He wins at Emperor and everyone starts doing cartwheels? I could train a monkey to win at Emperor! What is this? "My Left Foot II"?

Learned Helplessness.

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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.

Scouse Gits · February 3, 2001, 15:17

quote:

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse on 02-03-2001 09:37 AM
I could train a monkey to win at Emperor!

strange ... thought you would have already taught your friends ...

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SG(2)

Eli · February 3, 2001, 16:18

I should really come here more often...

I stuck at king for two years.

Shaka Naldur · February 4, 2001, 08:06

quote:

No, don't give ICS a go. It is an ABOMINATION I say an ABOMINATION.

what is ICS?,

Thoth · February 4, 2001, 09:43

quote:

Originally posted by Shaka Naldur on 02-04-2001 07:06 AM

what is ICS?,

Infinite City Sleaze. A strategy for those with no self-respect.

Build as many citys as you can, as closse together as possible, build nothing other than settlers and the cheapest military units available.

(I'm sure the SGs can elaborate a little more)

Scouse Gits · February 5, 2001, 06:21

With Pleasure...

For a detailed guide to playing the Infinite City Strategy try DaveV's great work here.
There are several variations once you have mastered the basics - it can be fun playing in Republic - and if you care to look at kcbob's no ICS Perfection Succession game on the Civ2-General thread that has become remarkably like ICS with wide spacing under Democracy!!!

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____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

La Fayette · February 5, 2001, 12:28

Congratulations lotm
I hope AH was joking (though I'm afraid he wasn't).
Don't bother: we all remember how it was when we started playing civ, and we all know that any first victory at a given level is an accomplishment. Hurrah!

About ICS:
I agree with SG: Dave V's paper is well written and convincing.
But i don't feel like playing hard core ICS, for ONE reason: the double black faces.
IMHO this is a bug.
Taking advantage of that bug makes civ2 a different game that I don't feel like playing now, though I am convinced that the bug makes ICS very powerful (and I have not a word to say against those who enjoy playing ICS: hello!

).

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aux bords mystérieux du monde occidental