Thoughts on the replacement of Fundamentalism with Nationalism

[Chronus]

Well, I think my point has been proven by somebody misinterpreting my post.

No, Techwins, I caught your sarcasm from the very beginning. I wasn't referring to your quote as hypocritical but rather . . . the reality it conveys behind the scenes.

Oh well. Whatever the case, the Valley heat sure does that to us, doesn't it?

Hey Osweld, look on the bright side. I've got digital cable which carries this channel called HBO zone which shows a lot of independent films from Canada. I never realized Toronto had such an good gay independent film scene. Also, once you guys legalize pot you can expect alot of business from America to come your way.

[TechWins]

the reality it conveys behind the scenes.

Ok, I wasn't sure if you understood my tone or not.

And yes that valley heat sure does suck. What city do you live in? I've lived in Mesa all of my life but back in May I moved to Gilbert. It's much nicer out in Gilbert.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Chronus

As I similarily asked before, do you really have to believe everything marketing/propaganda and money tell you??? If you are suckered a couple of times ... you have my sympathy. If you are constantly being suckered ... then that's YOUR fault. Take some responsibility for yourself! Speaking of hypocritical . . . see the next quote.

I don't know. Corporations in all countries spend billions of dollars on advertising because they know it influences our purchasing decisions. In some cases, the amount of advertising is so extensive that we may not have a choice.

Think about how often you see advertising, for say Coke, in a given day. How many TV ads, billbords, store signs, coke machine ads, would you see? All of these ads are saying the same thing: drink Coke, Coke is good.

Let's say you see 20 Coke ads per day, and that's probably a conservative estimate. That's about 7,300 Coke ads a year, 73,000 in a decade.

I would argue that scale of advertising effectively brainwashes us. Coke is sugar water with no healthy benefits, but how many of us would say Coke is bad for us. We don't say that because we are bombarded with Coke is good messages.

Or try publshing an ad saying coke is just sugar-water and it rots your teeth. No publisher is going to touch that ad.

Imagine if instead of saying Coke is god, the ads said Communism is good. I would bet that we would all be good little communists.

Is this an example of Evil Americans pushing their culture down our throats. Definitely not. All corporations do it, whether it is coke, Benetton (Italy?), Addidas (German). But to deny the effects of mass marketing is to deny modern life.

[isaac brock]

Theoretically, communism is good, it just hasn't been effectively realized. I already am a good little communist, but nobody really listens to me.

[Sabre2th]

Tingkai: If seeing a couple little billboards can brainwash you, then I feel very sorry for you.

[N35t0r]

The problem with puting communism into practise is that it puts too much power into too little people. Of course, democratic government would mean much less chance of corruption, but on countries like Argentina (here), people who don't work and get 'paid' would be a lot. As always, the best would be something in between....

As for the implementation of communism, i think that in the far future, robots could be put in charge of everyhing, and if we have people not having to to do any work, (note, "not having to do", not "not doing") then we could live as closto communism, and as close to a 'perfect' society as possible.
of course, this is open to many flaws, mainly the fact that there would need to be a kind of 'censorship' to prevent people to destroy the sistem...


I think that the thread has gone too far from it's original topic...

[TechWins]

I think that the thread has gone too far from it's original topic...

The original topic is pointless and so is the topic going on right now. Certain people just don't understand marketing and other aspects of the way the world works.

[N35t0r]

Originally posted by TechWins


The original topic is pointless and so is the topic going on right now. Certain people just don't understand marketing and other aspects of the way the world works.

The world doesn't work, it just manages to keep going by mere miracle...

[TechWins]

The world doesn't work

Should have I of said behaves?

[N35t0r]

it might be because it's 5:15 here but i don't get the sense of your post...

[N35t0r]

it took me nearly 5 mins, but now i get it...

how the world behaves...

[Chronus]

What city do you live in?

I'm up here in Scottsdale. A friend of mine lives down there in Chandler. I thank the good Lord for the 101

I already am a good little communist, but nobody really listens to me.

I may not care for today's communism but I'll still listen to you, Isaac.

Incidently, the early Christian church was somewhat communistic in nature:

"All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had. . . . There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need."
Acts 4:32-35

Thus ends today's Sunday school lesson.

WOW! This thread sure gets around!

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Sabre2th
Tingkai: If seeing a couple little billboards can brainwash you, then I feel very sorry for you.

Hate to tell ya, I guess you are going to be feeling sorry for yourself then cause it's not a couple of billboards. All of us face a constant barrage of advertising telling us that something or other is good. We are all affected by it, usually at a subconscious level. It is not like you see an ad and go "oh, I want to buy that product." Instead, when a person wants something to drink, they think of Coke.

As I said, this is just a fact of life. There's no way to avoid it, unless you want to isolate yourself from the modern world. But there's no point denying it either.

The interesting thing about Civ3 is that it recognizes that people's choices are influenced by outside factors.

[faded glory]

Guys, Nationalism is not a government. It is a form of National Pride. historically, it never was a Government. Napoloen established himself as an Emperor like diety.

Anyway, Nationalism could be anything! Americans are nationalist, we just call it patriotism! Yugoslavia had bouts of Nationalism during Natos bombing. The Chinese and the Soviets used to be big fans of Nationalism.


Nationalism is simply pride of a citizen towards his country. Never heard of a 'Nationalist' Government.

They should have put Fascism in its place! But we can always Mod it

[Gramphos]

Originally posted by Saddam
Guys, Nationalism is not a government. It is a form of National Pride. historically, it never was a Government. Napoloen established himself as an Emperor like diety.

Anyway, Nationalism could be anything! Americans are nationalist, we just call it patriotism! Yugoslavia had bouts of Nationalism during Natos bombing. The Chinese and the Soviets used to be big fans of Nationalism.


Nationalism is simply pride of a citizen towards his country. Never heard of a 'Nationalist' Government.

They should have put Fascism in its place! But we can always Mod it

Read the entire thread.
It is stated, by Soren Johnson, in the beginning of the thread that Nationalism isn't a Government in Civ3.

[Admiral PJ]

This topic seems to have drifted into American/Anti-American idiocy, but heres something about FUNDAMENTALISM:

With the new civ ability of Religion and under a Dictatorship(or maybe a monarchy/republic?) government you can probably recreate a FUNDY government to an extent, with cheap Religious buildings because of being Religious (with Egyptian/Babylonian aztec or indian civs, but not persian unusually?)
so you get the happiness from the cheap cathedrals as you did with FUNDY.
Fundamentalism is really just a dictatorship, more like monarchy with the religious links this has.. Civ's fundamentalism was an unrealistic goverment - how can everyone be happy all the time in a fundy government, if anything more should be unhappy than in a democracy where there is more freedom.

[faded glory]

This topic seems to have drifted into American/Anti-American idiocy, but heres something about FUNDAMENTALISM:

What!!? You blithering idiot!

Keep your bias in OT you English pig-dog!

Read the entire thread.

I was addressing the thread title you boof head. Did I not point out that is not a government, rather it is an advance!

[Gramphos]

Originally posted by Saddam
I was addressing the thread title you boof head. Did I not point out that is not a government, rather it is an advance!

Mind your language. You may get a vacation by Markos.

Yes you did, but that has already been pointed out, and in the time the Thread title were written that post was not made.

[Admiral PJ]

I'm not going to listen to some fool named after Saddam Hussein.
I don't know how you were allowed on this forum with a name supporting that evil dictator.
You seem to have some good comments but don't spoil things with your bigotist halfbaked comments, I only meant such posts about the US being a fundamentalist style religious government are crazy. I wasn't going against the US either , though they have had their shares of problems and bad decisions related to foreign policy (such as President Reagans attack on that Carribean island - Haiti I think it was ).

Admins- I call for Saddam to have a 2 day ban.

PJ

[faded glory]

Bigoted!!?

You my friend are the one who made the derogatory comment.

American/Anti-American idiocy

Next I suppose your going to say you can back that up? Theres no difference between what I said and what you said. Please address your own issues first.





admins- this sure is not worth a ban

Mind your language. You may get a vacation by Markos.

Actually I apoligize. I thought admiral PJ made that comment. My apoligys

[Gramphos]

Originally posted by Saddam
Actually I apoligize. I thought admiral PJ made that comment. My apoligys

I think you shouldn’t call anyone that, but I accept you apology as I don't know the history of the fight between you and PJ (and don't want to find out either).

[TechWins]

There's no way to avoid it

Well, actually there is it's called self-control. If you lack that you may not be able to avoid it but if you possess that trait it might still be difficult to avoid it but you have the capability to avoid it. In fact, I have drinken a soda pop of any kind since January 27, 2001. Nor have I drinken coffee or tea. I won't be drinking another one until January 28, 2001. Don't ask why I'm doing this but I just wanted to show that it is possible to avoid it. With that being said your whole last post is inaccurate.

[Admiral PJ]

I was not in any way making a derogatory statement towards americans or even anti americans, I was just saying I didn't like the way the topic was turning into a debate on wether the US is good or not . I didn't mean that americans were idiots, I have american friends and I wouldn't mind living there - despite president Bush being in power.
You were being bigoted Saddam with your racist taunts about the english (i'm more scottish/ new zealander anyhow )

Sometime i'm not that clear in my writings.. I guess you misunderstood, accept my apologies if I offended you.
I don't know if your american,from somewhere else or anti -american saddam?

I think its good to be able to discuss America ..
I think Americas a great economic and technological 'federation' or nation, and does produce a lot of 'good' and creative (read original) culture.
Americas film and music industries (the good ones like the Matrix film and Nine inch nails/ Korn music bands ) offer good modern culture to the world as well internally to the US itself. Its just bad when you get Greed based globalisation with businesses such as McDonalds. (where the quality and staff pay are atrocious)
Interestingly Chinese and other cultures also globalise their culture with such things as Chinese Takeaways , offering good quality of food with less of a capitalist obsession , although they aren't branded in the way american globalisation is.

Americas giving us Civ3.. so no one can complain


PJ

[Sabre2th]

Originally posted by TechWins
Well, actually there is it's called self-control. If you lack that you may not be able to avoid it but if you possess that trait it might still be difficult to avoid it but you have the capability to avoid it.

Exactly.

[faded glory]

I apologize admiral... I guess my response was a bit harsh.

I was just puzzled at wildly OT this thread is. I come in to make a comment about the orignal topic, and I get assaulted

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Saddam
Nationalism is simply pride of a citizen towards his country. Never heard of a 'Nationalist' Government.

They should have put Fascism in its place! But we can always Mod it

I think the Civ designers wanted Fundamentalism to cover a more diverse range of governments than just religious types. The definition of Fund. in ToT is that it is "usually" religious whereas Oxford dictionary says Fund. is specific to religion. The broader definition taken by the Civ designers means that Fascism could be included as a Fund. gov't.

Anyway, Saddam raises the point that we could create a mod pack with Fascism in it.

What would be the characteristics of a Fascist government? How would it differ, in terms of game play, from the other forms of government?

And on an OT note: Techwins wrote: "In fact, I have drinken a soda pop of any kind since January 27, 2001. Nor have I drinken coffee or tea. I won't be drinking another one until January 28, 2001."

Did you mean to say that you stopped drinking pop, coffee, and tea for a single day?

[TechWins]

Did you mean to say that you stopped drinking pop, coffee, and tea for a single day?

Oh sorry about that I meant to say until January 28, 2002. In my opinion it's pretty damn good not to have pop, coffee, or tea for a year. Considering that I used to drink at least one pop a day before.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by TechWins


Oh sorry about that I meant to say until January 28, 2002. In my opinion it's pretty damn good not to have pop, coffee, or tea for a year. Considering that I used to drink at least one pop a day before.

Sounds like an interesting experiment and you're past the halfway mark. Has it made a difference in your life? Has it been easy? What do your friends and family think? Do they even notice? Do you think you will start drinking pop again after Jan. 28, 2002?

[LaRusso]

Originally posted by Admiral PJ
I'm not going to listen to some fool named after Saddam Hussein.
I don't know how you were allowed on this forum with a name supporting that evil dictator.
PJ

he is the mother of all statesmen