The KOREAN Civilization: Things Every Civ Player Should Know

[Veracitas]

Originally posted by King of Rasslin

You still haven't explained how they make a Chinese/Korean keyboard 5000 characters, plus 5000 more capitalized ones! That must be a pain to learn.

Ok, it's 3:00 am here in the great state of Virginia, so i'm pretty tired...and I only have time to respond to this one part, because I don't know how to make things any more transparent to you...

the Korean alphabet IS NOT F*CKIN COMPRISED OF 5000 F*CKIN CHARACTERS!!!!

here is the count, which is rough, because I just came up with it in my head--and i'm pretty tired right now--but i think it's right
Hangul (the Korean alphabet) is:
14 consonants + 8 vowels = TWENTY TWO CHARACTERS!!!!

I even friggin' spelled it out for you. That's even less than the ENGLISH ALPHABET. Ok, my numbers might be slightly wrong, but they're in the vicinity of twenty two (and i'm pretty sure that's the right number...i don't wanna go look it up in a damn book right now).

Have you ever seen a Korean keyboard?? Most obviously not. It's a very efficient little thing. At any rate, it has to be more efficient than the English "QWERTY" keyboard...Did you know that the QWERTY keyboard was actually purposely designed to SLOW DOWN typists, because they were afraid they would get ahead of themselves way too fast. So, actually, the English QWERTY keyboard is one of the most inefficient in the world, but most movements to change the system to one where keys such as "e" and "i" (which are used heavily) are in more efficient places have failed because everyone is used to the QWERTY keyboard.

Even Chinese, with its 5000 characters (the average Chinese usually uses FAR LESS, and the govt has actually taken steps to simplify the characters...an example is the old Chinese character for "10,000" with all its lines vs. the current one) can be used without all too much trouble. I've seen someone use it, and what they do is they type out the sound in English..like if htey type out "Ni Hao" (the mandarin word for hello) it will come out in its Chinese characters equivalence.

And, one more thing that REALLY IRRITATES me. Chinese does not have CAPITAL LETTERS (it does have "prettier letters" like cursive or somethin', but it's really similar, so it can't really be considered as doubling the alphabet any more than we should consider doubling the English alphabet because of cursive). Where the hell are you coming up with this info? Are you pullin' it all out of your @$$, cuz that's what it looks like...At least do some basic ground research if you're going to argue about the insignificance of an entire civilization of millions of people.

[King of Rasslin]

I'm from Jackson County, and I never see Asians. There are more non-native Georgians in Atlanta than native born Georgians! And I did NOT pull that info from my @$$. It is, in fact, proven. It's almost like going to a different world.

As for Korean, I see hundreds of different symbols. They all look the same to me. And where would you learn to speak Korean? Maybe in Korea. I just can't see where you could learn it, because it certainly isn't taught in schools. But one of my teachers said she heard enough Korean to know that Asian languages DO have very precise sounds that are hard to interpret. She knows from experience, and discourages anyone from trying to learn it before Spanish. And if you typed that out at 3 a.m. get some sleep man

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by King of Rasslin
I'm from Jackson County, and I never see Asians. There are more non-native Georgians in Atlanta than native born Georgians!

That would be Cherokee or Creek, right?

[King of Rasslin]

Oh, yeah! I forgot about the "other" native Georgians

In this country, you are a citizen if you are born here. When I mean "native Georgian", I mean people that have been born here. And most Indians are from Oklahoma. They chose to become part of our culture, they culture flipped. A few resisted, and we know what happened.

Come to think of it, America in Civ 3 declares war with no purpose a lot. They are almost as bad as Russia in some cases.

[Q Classic]

I'm from Jackson County, and I never see Asians.

look, you're not that far from athens and uga... have you not been there? the asian minority there isn't really large, say, compared to gatech, but come on... clarke co. is pretty much right next door!

There are more non-native Georgians in Atlanta than native born Georgians!

that's quite true. of course, a lot of those immigrants are not FOREIGNERS. the largest group of people that moved into atlanta in the past ten years has not been asians, or hispanics, but northerners lured by the hot weather, lower land prices, and thriving economy. i will agree with you--atlanta is quite different from the rest of georgia, so much so that it doesn't seem like a southern city anymore.

As for Korean, I see hundreds of different symbols. They all look the same to me.

yeah, i suppose, if you weren't paying attention. still, by that logic, when i look at english, or german, or french, or say, spanish, there are the standard 26 letters, then there are all those wierd accent things, so it all looks like 50, to 70 or something letters. if you don't pay attention to the language, if you don't know the pattern the language follows, it will look near incomprehensible to you.
i don't know if you'll visit these sites, but it might clear up a lot of your misconceptions.
http://www.mct.go.kr/hangeul/
http://library.thinkquest.org/20746/non/index.html
once you learn the basic symbols, it's not that hard to decipher these "mysterious" characters.

And where would you learn to speak Korean? Maybe in Korea. I just can't see where you could learn it, because it certainly isn't taught in schools.

most major universities across the united states teach korean these days, among which include the university of chicago, harvard, university of georgia, duke university, georgetown university...
one example of a high school: decatur high school (not decatur ga)
and the mere fact that the korean language is an SATII test should say that people do learn it at the high school level.

But one of my teachers said she heard enough Korean to know that Asian languages DO have very precise sounds that are hard to interpret.

heard enough? she didn't understand it, did she? the korean language has many different dialects, some of which are just plain hard to understand; but the difference is like a southerner trying to speak to one straight from central philly or south side chicago. in korean, you don't NEED precise sounds; it is a language that ignores tonality, ignores mild pronunciation differences. i could say that in polish, or czech, or russian, very precise sounds can be heard that are hard to interpret. but that's also because i don't speak those languages. hell, even spanish? when people start speaking fast, i don't know when some words begin and when others end. precise sounds that are hard to interpret, i think.

In this country, you are a citizen if you are born here. When I mean "native Georgian", I mean people that have been born here. And most Indians are from Oklahoma. They chose to become part of our culture, they culture flipped. A few resisted, and we know what happened.

yeah, i know that. i'm a citizen. i was born piedmont hospital, atlanta, georgia, in 1983. i'm also korean, and know quite a bit about the korean community, and the asian community in general in atlanta. i've met more american-born asians from atlanta than foreign-born asians in my particular age group of under-25. furthermore, of the american born ones, i've met more that were born in atlanta than outside of atlanta. naturally, that means that quite a few of those asians are native Georgians...

p.s. when i say Indians, i don't mean native americans. i mean Indians. there are a bunch in macon.

[Veracitas]

WOOHOO!!!! from the evidence shown in this post it seems that the Koreans are GOING TO BE IN!!!

HOORAY!!!

[King of Rasslin]

Dang, Q Cubed, you really went link crazy! Although I do live close to Athens, I rarely go there now. Traffic is so much worse than it used to be like in the 80's. My cousins had no problem learning to drive in Athens then, but it would be suicide for me. I just don't have the experience to drive there. Yes, Georgia drivers are as bad as they say we are.

And I do think immigration is the major reason why population is so high now. Urban sprawl is really bad in Atlanta. Hispanics are an issue, but there are plenty of Yankees too. Not many Koreans, though.

As for speed talking, Spanish is horrible. It is a great language and it's easy to learn, but Spanish speakers talk too quickly. If they slowed down a little it would really be a better language. How is Korean compared to Spanish? I suspect Asians talk faster than Hispanics, from seeing old ninja, Bruce Lee, and Godzilla movies

I mean, their mouths move 3 times but 10 words come out. You gotta love it

[Q Classic]

>eye twitch<

my brain... hurts...

old ninja, godzilla, and bruce lee movies are the basis for your knowledge of asian language?

[King of Rasslin]

I love ninja movies! That is probably the best part of Asian culture. Forget guns, knives, and tanks. Learn to use your own body as a lethal weapon

While it really is bad to stay primitive technologically, and use your fists as your only weapon, Asians know how to use them perfectly! It is a shame our bodies are limited in what we can do.

So.... Who's up for making a Super Saiyan civ?

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
>eye twitch<

my brain... hurts...

old ninja, godzilla, and bruce lee movies are the basis for your knowledge of asian language?

The only relevant knowledge of the English language is, of course, "I'll be back!"

[yin26]

Well, if the Koreans are in ...as it appears... I might just buy a copy of this game yet.

[aaglo]

Wow... this thread is still here

[Colonel Rhombus]

Based on the glorious victory in the World Cup last night, Korea certainly deserve a place ahead of the Romans.

[Veracitas]

Originally posted by yin26
Well, if the Koreans are in ...as it appears... I might just buy a copy of this game yet.

Most definitely, Yin...the only way I will buy PTW is if the COREANS are gonna be in it...I'd have an awesome time conquering the world with Koguryo!

lol, Colonel Rhombus...that was an intense game...as soon as Ahn scored that last winning goal, I got a phone call from the ppl I know in Korea and they were all ecstatic out of their minds!

BTW, has anyone else noticed that the signs that the people in the world cup use to cheer Corea on is spelled "COREA"? I thought that was very interesting...legacy of Japanese oppression being erased, finally??? I actually like Corea better with a "C," anyway..it's prettier, somehow.

[King of Rasslin]

Its KOREA, not COREA! It might just be improperly translated into English characters. This is an actual language known as Engrish.

Apparently, some Koreans mistranslated their own language into into characters and made a huge error. Only an idiot can't tell the difference between an K and a C.

[Gangerolf]

I think the French spell it with a C. Maybe the signs were in French

[King of Rasslin]

Yeah, of course it had to be the French to mistake a C for a K. Go figure.

[yin26]

This is a debated topic, but there IS an explanation:

"Corea," so one view goes, was the original spelling of the country. The Japanese under Imperial Decree changed the spelling to 'K' since the J in Japan would then come before Korea. Thus, the "Corea" you are seeing is a form of nationalism and restoration of a pre-annexed country...rightly or wrongly.

Only an idiot wouldn't get his facts straight before making himself looking like a complete ass.

http://goldsea.com/Air/Issues/Corea/corea.html

[King of Rasslin]

I don't look like a complete ass. You even said "as one view goes." There are probably 100s of explanations for the popular fad or spelling Korea as Corea. French influence is probably the most likely.

Even the Japanese are smart enough to know changing the spelling of a country means absolutely nothing. Come on, what's in a name?

[yin26]

"Its KOREA, not COREA!"

Actually, there is evidence for both sides, right?

"It might just be improperly translated into English characters."

There is some evidence for that, yes.

"This is an actual language known as Engrish."

Your use of 'Engrish' here is racist and demeaning.

"Apparently, some Koreans mistranslated their own language into into characters and made a huge error."

More trash talk...

"Only an idiot can't tell the difference between an K and a C."

And with that statement, 'complete ass' seems quite fitting.

[Q Classic]

you know, king of rasslin', this trolling is starting to make my head hurt even more. by your logic, no asian would know the difference between an l and an r.

then again, most americans, and english speakers, don't know the difference between ei, ie, ee, ea, ae, eu, e, eh, oe, ue, a and i. most americans and english speakers also don't know the difference between japanese, korean, chinese, vietnamese, thai, and laotian; nor do the know the difference between magyar, suomi, deustch, polska, svenska, norge... nor do most americans and english speakers know proper grammar: no dangling participles, no split infinitives, no mixed tenses, subject-verb agreement...

really, your trolling is... idiotic, and juvenile.

[King of Rasslin]

Yin, if you look up Korea in an Almanac or a map it will be spelled with a K. Therefore, Corea is incorrect spelling. Got it?

As for it changing, yes, there is a lot of debate. But, the fact is, it is properly spelled as Korea, NOT Corea. And everyone knows about Engrish: All your base are belong to us!!!

It's funny to make fun of their translations. If it wasn't, then AYB wouldn't have been such a popular fad. Come on, it isn't wrong to make fun of their errors!

[King of Rasslin]

Q Cubed, Americans DO know the difference between ai, ei, ie, ae, ea, etc. And we do know the difference between Asians. Ok?

If anyone is trolling, it is you because you are insulting the greatest country in the world. If you really hate trolls then stop being one.

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by King of Rasslin
I don't look like a complete ass.

Yes you do.

[Gangerolf]

Originally posted by yin26
Thus, the "Corea" you are seeing is a form of nationalism and restoration of a pre-annexed country...rightly or wrongly.
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not necessarily, as it says in your link:

The changeover will pose a problem only in English-speaking nations as other western nations never accepted the "K" spelling. For example, France, Spain, Italy, Brazil, Argentina and Mexico, among many others, use the "C" rendering.

So who knows, maybe the banners were designed/made in one of those countries, or perhaps by a Spanish/French/Italian-speaking Korean.

[Gangerolf]

nor do the know the difference between magyar, suomi, deustch, polska, svenska, norge

actually, norge is the name of the country, while the name of the language would be norsk

[spiky82]

Hey, KoR tell me something...if the WHOLE country of Corea (or Korea, if you prefer) had COREA written on their banners and stuff, why are you saying SOME koreans mistranslated it? after all, it's their own country, and if they wanna change it from K then C, they can do so, right? And since it's THEIR country, whatever English spelling that THEY fancy is correct, is correct, right? In that case, the Almanec or something you mentioned would actually be OUTDATED and WRONG...

As well, it almost sounds (though I hope not) as if you are saying the majority of Koreans who waved 'Corea' banners are idiots who don't know the difference between C and K...

Nehow, I think I heard from my relatives that the banners were designed there by a C/Korean company, Gangerolf...

I personally prefer K cuz I'm used to it, but I seem to remember what Yin says about how Japanese gov't made it K...to some, it's no big deal, but believe me...even generations after the occupation, the anti-japanese feelings still exist, though it's much weaker than the past generation. So it's understandable that they wanna change it to C from K, and I think people should encourage it as it would be only a minor nuisance in exchange for Korean people's recovery of long-lost national pride, etc.

ppl, let's post stuff after we think about its potential meaning, not the other way around...besides, I thought this was supposed to be about discussion of inclusion of Korea or Corea in CIV III not about the official spelling of it...my little bit of rambling

[yin26]

"not necessarily, as it says in your link: "

Yes, necessarily. I live among these people holding the banner, mind you.

[Q Classic]

KoR:

But, the fact is, it is properly spelled as Korea, NOT Corea.

several years ago, Taejon was the proper way of spelling what is now known to world cup fans as Daejon. Pusan was the proper english spelling of Busan; Incheon was Inchon. who are you to say what is the right spelling and what is not; romanizations between languages that do not use the latin alphabet and those that do are always tricky.
nippon, the name of japan, actually has no p sound in it; it's an h sound. ohio gozaimasu is, i believe, the proper roumanji (romanization) of a greeting; but the u is silent.
the simple fact is, they speak the language. they try to render their language as best they can into english. how they choose to romanize it is their business, and how they choose to romanize it is correct, not whatever you may see or read.
if the MOE decides to spell it Corea, then that is the correct and official form; if the populace deems it to be written as Corea, then that is the correct and commonly used form. they're not incorrect, ever; it is you, going on very little evidence, knowledge, and basis, who is wrong in determining what is right and what is wrong.

And everyone knows about Engrish: All your base are belong to us!!!

that particular example is japanese, not korean. besides, making fun of japanese translations may be funny, but then again, most bad translations are funny. east asia's might simply be a bit more noticeable, but that's because they're switching over from their language family into one that is entirely different. mistakes are to be expected.

Q Cubed, Americans DO know the difference between ai, ei, ie, ae, ea, etc. And we do know the difference between Asians. Ok?

actually, no. i have to say, i took each one of those examples from a list of the most commonly misspelled words; and in each case, those sounds are almost interchangeable in one instance or another. weird is often misspelled wierd. receive as recieve; believe as beleive.
furthermore, i have to say, the majority of americans do NOT know the difference between asians. judging by many of the posts in this forum, by your comments, you obviously don't know the cultural, linguistic, and even facial distinctions between the east asian ethnicities. and you're not alone; all look same gives proof to that. most americans i've seen take that test fare abysmally. it's not difficult to tell the difference between and Indian and Korean; it is difficult to tell the difference between a Korean and a Chinese person, but it can be done.
also: the cultural differences are truly what americans seem to not realize. they may know the difference between the extremely well known ones: japanese, chinese, indian; but very rarely do they know the distinctions between bengali, bangladeshi, pakistani, indian; or between vietnamese, laotian, thai, malaysian, and cambodian; or between korean, japanese, and chinese.

If anyone is trolling, it is you because you are insulting the greatest country in the world. If you really hate trolls then stop being one.

i'm the one that's trolling? that's rich. i was insulting the united states? when? by pointing out that most americans are bad at spelling? what's your point? a lot of brits are bad at it too. i'm willing to bet most russians are, and canadians, probably no better. i was merely making a point to answer your allegation that koreans are idiots because they can't spell their own country right.
besides, i am american. i may have korean blood, but i'm american. but the thing is, i realize that america is the greatest country in the world now, but if we don't shape up, we won't be that much longer. the dynamics of this new century are turning out quite different than we expected, and the ham handed behavior of american foreign policy in the past is proving to be the root of our recent problems in many parts of the world.
i can say that, not as a person insulting the united states, but someone who is truly worried that the country that my parents came to in search of a better life might not be able to provide me with that better life, and someone who wants to change it for the better.
if i'm trolling because i'm making some blunt observations, then most of the board is trolling.
but see, i'm not. trolling is when you deliberately insult something or someone, or even a group of people with no basis in order to pick a fight.
you've insulted the koreans plenty; you have no reasoning to back your remarks; and you're deliberately trying to raise ire in this thread.
i didn't insult the americans. i made the point that americans are not perfect too.

[Japher]

<
This really set me back, and I didn't know what to say. So, I moved several stools down and watched the baseball game in silence.>>


Now that the K/Coreans have been selected to be a part of the next 8 civilizations I hope some of you will be happy.

I must say that I have learned a lot from reading this thread, dang it was long. Yet, I think what was lost somewhere within all the hatred towards other cultures was the true sense of what this thread was to be about; the importance of the K/Corean's Civilization and what would merit it to be selected by the folks a Farixis.

Points to Ponder:

What is a civilization? <-- There was a question that was never asked, more so assumed by everyone, and as it seemed no one had the same idea of it.
What makes a civilization influential? <-- I think this is what they were looking for in making a selection.
Does Korea have these points? <-- Well, the votes are in.

My Points:

Never will I say that Korea does not have a culture all its own, less I turn into that Brit. I met at the bar that one time. Al Bundy said it best, "We had a war to get rid of your kind... Who hates the French" (paraphrased). I will say that I felt the Korean's civilization deserved more merit, and by civilization I mean cultural influence (my definition), as a dominant CIV than did other CIVs in the running. Yet, and there always is a yet, I wouldn't of put them in the top 16, though I am happy they did.

I am not from Asia, in fact I am a racially blind jacka$$, so I don't see cultural influence, lines, interactions, etc... Except when I go out to eat (sounds bad, but as an 8th generation American it is true).

Perhaps these boundaries are definite, but without going there I will never see them, unless the K/Corean advocates out there bring them to our (and by that I mean us culturally blind idiots) attention they never will be.

Back to the matter at hand: I believe that the Carthaginians, Vikings/Norse, Spanish, Celts/Guals, Turks/Ottoman, and Arabians took the top six spots. Mongols I will go with for seven, and I will tell you why in a minute. Then the K/Coreans who I believe beat out the Mayans. This kind of makes me go hmmm... Why? Well, not being a great history buff, and with my only form of cultural education coming from fast food restaurants, I rank these civs off two things, 1) Do I know who they are and 2)What comes to mind, as far as culture, history, and influence comes to mind when I think about them. Being a complete dolt I would probably have combined Turks and Arabians because I get the same image when I think of both of them, and would of allowed in the Mayans. Oh well. Yet, when I think of K/Corea and it's culture I draw a blank... I know the world cup is going on there, and that really fast ice skaters come from there, and that there was a war there, and that is about it... Nothing much different than what i get from Japan and China, except for the skater thing...

Who would I pick instead of K/Coreans? --- The Dutch. Their UU could through wooden shoes at you, hehe. Or, the Portuguese, or the Maori (spelling?).

Basically, I must be a bigot or I might just be uninformed. I consider myself to be well schooled, yet educated? If a certain culture cannot scream loud enough to fall on my deaf ears, than I am not going to include them as a dominant civilization(mainly because I can't see that they exist), and K/Corea I must say is a lot quieter than Japan or China, and not to say this is a bad thing.

To conclude:

Other boards and other threads suggest to me something which I believe is true, all be it sad. K/Corea got included merely to cover thier fan base. How many Mayans are you going to hear complain that they did not get their civilization put into a video game?! In this case, I guess the K/Coreans yelled lound enough to be heard, well it at least it fell on Farixis' ears. Next stop...??? (You all ready got me hooked, just pull me in)