What unit is your "offensive call"

Musketeers are not as good as catapults. Trials and Trials of this attack/defense has convinced me. The dice roll just doesn't work that way.

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"The seeds of evil are the the same seeds of greatness so be evil and be great."

[La Fayette]

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits on 03-07-2001 01:12 PM Nice post EST. SG [1] ooops ... EST has found out about Ironclads (useless vessels - hope Civ 3 has none of them!!!) - but does he know the Ironclad/Diplo trick? If he does - we're out of here. ------------- SG(2)

...still, EST wrote 2 blazing pages and didn't mention the vet spy. I think we have more than a tiny chance against him

[La Fayette]

SG(2)
In the meantime, let me bow to this new crown, even more gleaming and brightly shining than the previous one (thanks Dan, now I understood)

[East Street Trader]

Ahah. As so often DaveV comes in with the really skilled warmonger's comment. "Turn off science when embarking on an extended bout of conquest and expand the window." Inspired!

I suppose you might give away techs off the military paths too?

I fear that the honest trader who, even in the battle's din, finds his mind wandering to the counting house and to dreams of the Golden Road would never think of a stunt like that.

Marko_Polo and Edward

Thanks for the kind words, you guys. In one sense I am a writer but my published works are, sadly, dreary in the extreme. If you can't sleep at nights I commend my latest offering, snappily entitled "The Learning and Skills Act (Commencement No. 3 and Savings and Transitional Provisions) Order 2001" S.I. No. 654, £1.50 from The Stationery Office (Her Majesty being graciously pleased to share her publisher with me). The table describing the provisions previously commenced with which it ends is a model of its kind and will have you nodding off even if you are not snoring well before!

One day, however, I will draft one of these damned things in rhyme! I have set myself the somewhat challenging target of achieving this without anyone noticing. Should I bring it off I'll let you know (but don't hold your breath).

By the way Edward, returning to more important matters, the sneak attack bonus attaches just to the individual combat which immediately follows the stab in the back - not to all combat against that opponent during the turn. So I try to use that particular attack on the most difficult target - the first defender in a city, say; or a decent defender who blocks my advance in a fort or entrenched on a river. Also, I have been unable to develop a feel for whether you get the bonus for breaking a truce or whether it is only given for breach of a full peace treaty. (Pace Slowthinker, I have not tested .)

I agree with those who point out that the musketeer (and later all the rest of the infantry units and, especially, the marines) have offensive capabilities. But, rightly or wrongly, I tend to use them to attack only
soft targets, to achieve vet status or when driven to it. Plus, if you plan to get Leo's, the humble catapult will finish life as artillery.

Theoden, King

Sire, I must have taken a gander into A1 cities nearly half as often as the SGs have pressed "start new game". And never have I seen an artillery piece stationed there. On the other hand, I have encountered wandering, and usually unguarded, A1 catapults and cannon on countless occasions and, later, picked off stray bits of A1 artillery in open country with my fighters just as often. So, yes it is true, the developers didn't give the A1 much helpful guidance on this branch of the art of war. Perhaps in Civ3 a Napoleon will come. You will occasionally get attacked by artillery when laying seige - either because the arrival of that unit coincided with the arrival of your troops or, more likely, because the A1 responds to your attack by rushing such a unit. But it is not a regular occurance. And, by the way, I fear you have hearkened to Wormtongue and abandoned your ancestral ways. Attack is the best form of defence; mobility is to be prized; and that modicum of static defence which prudence dictates is best conducted in well placed forts away from your cities. Think Helm's Deep, Lord. The silk tongued servants of such as LaFayette may else slip unnoticed into your proud cities and who knows but that the damage of the evil Wormtongue may not then come to seem as naught?

[George Garrett]

EST, I take your point that ANY unit may enter, directly from aboard a vessel, a city that "lowers its flag" i.e. has no units left to defend it - I bring the marines along, in case my stacked Aggies fail to take out EVERY defender...too, marines are insurance against the problem that EST, himself, complains of, that of defending a newly-captured city against
counter attacks - a coupla fortified marines have proven themselves stout defenders, against most counter-attacks, I've found

My formula, then, when attacking by sea:- Coastal city With an escort of umpteen Aggies stacked, my transport contains 6 marines/2 spies (to sabotage city walls/coastal fortresses, if need be). Arriving next to the target city, I have a spy recce within - if I like the odds, and she can
sabotage city walls/coastal fortresses, I'll have my ships bombard, in turn, until either the message appears "Only Ground Units May Occupy a City", or I run out of ships-yet-to fire; if defenders yet remain, I send in my other, unused spy, to suss if my marines can take them - this is usually the case- my experience of the AI is that they seem to underman their city defences, anyway.

When attacking, by sea:- A "slightly inland" i.e. by 1 or 2 squares,city, I add an engineer to a mix of 2spies, 5 armour/mech inf so that a fort may be built next to the target city, while the troops gather strength for their assault...once the city is taken, I feel it a shme to use such a formidable offensive weapon as the tank in defence of the city so I garrison it with
the mech inf (also useful attackers), until I can boatload in cheapie fanatics, or float over paras ASAP, so that the armor may resume its thrust.

I always assumed that East Street Trader took his name from the Elephant and Castle area's equivalent of Petticoat Lane. The traders of "East Lane" -we call 'em costermongers - are noted for their wit and articulateness -we call it "gift of the gab" :-)

[DaveV]

quote: Originally posted by George Garrett on 03-08-2001 02:17 PM ...too, marines are insurance against the problem that EST, himself, complains of, that of defending a newly-captured city against counter attacks - a coupla fortified marines have proven themselves stout defenders, against most counter-attacks, I've found...

If you've assembled a potent task force of ships, they should be able to defend a captured city quite capably. Once a land unit occupies the empty city, you can move a few ships in to defend. Ships are generally stout defenders, posessing defense ratings and hitpoints that are better than contemporary infantry units. Modern ships suffer from having their firepower halved, but still should be able to see off any land units that attack them.

[East Street Trader]

Hey, George G! So the fame of East Street market stretches as far as British Columbia. I'm bucked. (Or are you, perchance, an ex-pat Londoner from unfashionably south of the river merely posing as a Mountie type?).

Anyway, you're absolutely right. I live within a barrow boy's hail of the market and love it's liveliness and ageless devotion to straightforward commercial ways. The contrast with shopping in our local supermarkets is marked.

Market pubs are always good, too, I find. Interesting anyway. You have to put up with the occasional shooting in the East Street one.

I'm pretty sure, but have not yet checked, that the market is venerable in years, too. East Street as a thoroughfare certainly is. Indeed it was in good use long before London was a city, still less had achieved any commercial prominence. One day I'll poke about in the local archives and see what they can tell.

Your points on the merits of the marine are well taken. I have often looked at his stats and special capacity and thought that there ought to be good and specific uses to which he can be put. But I am no Xin Yu and to date have concluded, like others I think, that he is simply too much of an all rounder and that mere versatility isn't worth the cost. I want my shock troops to be bigger hitters and my defenders to be cheaper. But you manage to make a vertue of his versatility so I'll maybe think again. The A1 certainly likes him and that is not always a point to ignore. Those who devised the game and the programme stand behind the A1 and those guys I would absolutely not ignore.

[Scouse Gits]

EST - Civ, M&M and now LotR where does your versatility end!
Have you tried 'Shogun - Total War' yet?

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Scouse Git[1]

"Staring at your screen in horror and disbelief when you open a saved game is one of the fun things of a succession game " - Hueij
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven
[This message has been edited by Scouse Gits (edited March 09, 2001).]

[East Street Trader]

SG(1)

No but I rather think I will. I was sent a trailer for it ages ago and the eye candy looked gorgeous. What is the game play like?

I also have a long standing fascination for Japan - fueled in recent years by a marvelous week-end exhibition of all things Japanese in Hyde Park and other sites some years back (the mounted archers were stunning and the Bunraku just as interesting as I had imagined). Also by Clavell's excellent Shogun and the almost as excellent television adaptation.

Just at the moment, though, I am a bit distracted thanks to Lara's impending GCSEs (my 16 year old daughter). I suppose SG(2) may be in the same boat?

Even had to miss my regular Wednesday evening bridge session at the Young Chelsea this week helping her finish some overdue course work (although my versatility doesn't run to more than half remembered and out of date schoolboy chemistry so it was a case of the blind leading the blind - just thank God for the internet and good teachers, I say).

[La Fayette]

quote: Originally posted by East Street Trader on 03-09-2001 09:00 AM so it was a case of the blind leading the blind .

Such things happen to those who forget building vet spies in time.

More seriously: is there a game named LotR?
(I confess I fell in love with the prose of Mr Tolkien)

[lord of the mark]

quote: Originally posted by La Fayette on 03-09-2001 11:25 AM Such things happen to those who forget building vet spies in time. More seriously: is there a game named LotR? (I confess I fell in love with the prose of Mr Tolkien)

I dont know of a game based on LOTR, but there is a civ2 scenario, by Mr Hartel IIRC.

Lord of the Mark

[George Garrett]

Hi, EST, I'm sure that The Lane is known all over, but I happened to live
and work there about 4,000 B.C. Stopford Rd was my address, know it? Darned if I can remember the name of the mews where I worked at an electoplater's shop - just off Crampton St? Yep, I'm a Londoner, as, I vow, is 99% of Victoria's population...talk about"More English than the English"!
I'm not qute so enamoured of marines as once I was...in the current game they did well as attackers, but they are not at all mobile, even along roads, and they're too strong to have hanging around on permanent garrison
duty...I'm beginning to wonder if my old favorite mech-inf might be better
-similar 2-way strength, and far more mobility.

Oh, yes, no doubt armour (and howies) are the way to go on offense, but I'm chicken preferring to cower behind the Great Wall and U.N. while I look for that juicy 22 squares full of whales, bison, green shields, and rivered forests to settle, so I'm not very experienced, or ambitious when it comes to the offensive.

Yes, DaveV, I've often slipped a ship or two in to fortify a city to await re-inforcing fanatics, but the thing is, somebody's gotta sail back and fetch them, in a transport...and said transport must be protected on the way back, with its precious cargo, from attacks by sea and air...so, I'll need my Aggie stack for such escort.

You may be amused by another argument for having zhips go ashore - they're
not so likely to be eliminated by one poooF! as my boasted stack was -14 units lost!
The object of this particular game
was to re-create the British Empire. I had accomplished this around 1940, and was engaged in further consolidating and colonization, when I decided to win back the Channel Isles which Spain had taken from me, at the start of the game. I was doing very well with armada and armour up on the French Coast, while busily building elswhere - I found a nice strip of Congo river,built one city on it, then noticed that where I wanted to build next was encroached by a weak Spanish city...since I had enough strength in the area, and was at war with the Spaniards, anyway, I decided to attack it.
This I did, successfully, and expecting the fleeng partisans to counter attack, took care to defend it well.
What I didn't bargain for was for these expelled troops to latch onto my brand new undefended city downstream, and take it...this was bad enough, but they took with it - rocketry.
I had few misgivings, the Spanish were well behind in techs, but to my amazement, and chagrin, they fired a cruise next turn (does anyone else suspect that the AI cheats?), offing my aggies, armor, spies, the lot...all because I tried for one exta un-necessary conquest! The lesson is -don't strain at a gnat -you may swallow a camel!
[This message has been edited by George Garrett (edited March 09, 2001).]

[George Garrett]

Hi EST, I did acknowledge your greeting right away, but the lengthy post i made yesterday, seems to have vanished like my gold does, in the game itself...odd thing, I don't mind writing a even a lengthy post once, but, for some reason, I hate to write it out all over again...so this will be
a scrappy version of what I wrote then.
I lived and worked near East Lane years ago (Stopford Rd, know it?), also worked -electroplating- at Clarence mews (just off Crampton St, I think)
I'm having second thoughts about those marines - they're a liability once on land - they lack mobility in the advance.. unless there be railroads - not likely in enemy territory- and their attack strength is too much, to have them languishing as permanent garrisons. Perhaps in future invasions from the sea, I'll do as DavyV suggests, I'll substitute armor/mech inf for the marines, and, by naval bombardment, pound the target city, til it's sans defenders, then move in my occupying army
I agree, DavyV, ships are fine to use in defense of cities, but I need mine to immediately escort the transport, to and fro, in enemy waters, for shipping fanatics from the rear to, cheaply, garrison my conquered cities.
However your suggestion has given me an idea for future naval strategy - for each invading task force that I send out - I like to have 4 aggies minimum in it, better overkill, than under-strength - I'll have one or two extra a-building whilst they are a-sailing (I often forget to change my ship-building to somthing else, anyway,sometimes end up with a ship or two extra), then when ready, they can follow the main force, replenishing it should I use any vessels to immediately garrison the conquered city. That way, I'll have more troops available to do their proper thing i.e. to chase after the enemy, rather have them hang about, as defenders. Thank you for your input, Dave...now let's see if this post sticks...

[George Garrett]

Ooops! I've just realised the "lost post" is on page 2...ah, well, we can never have too much of G.G....can we?

[Scouse Gits]

* bump *

SG[1]

[Marquis de Sodaq]

Ah, the memories...

EST has been gone for some time, too bad. Also, I note that much of that combat nonsense was posted after my Info: Combat thread had been up for months! O well...

[kmad]

1. Spys
2. Crusaders
3. Armors
4. Elephants
5. Stealth Bombers

[rah]

If you're ahead of the AI in tech. (which doesn't take much), Anything will work.

RAH

[Marquis de Sodaq]

Originally posted by rah
If you're ahead of the AI in tech. (which doesn't take much), Anything will work.
RAH

Don't be too sure - there have been plenty of times that the AI is several techs ahead of me by 3950bc.

[rah]

@ Marquis de Sodaq

Very good. But I bet you caught up by 3900.

RAH

[War4ever]

actually in almost any game, you will be behind in tech at the beginning....but then again, the ai will have tons of useless sh!t bogging them down

[Straybow]

Don't know if lotm is still around… Yes, there is/was a Lord of the Rings paper map & chit wargame. It was OK, but couldn't really capture the essence of Tolkien's allure.