How will espionage work in civ3?

The diplomat · September 1, 2001, 13:37

Since the diplo and spy units are gone, how will espionage work in civ3? How will we sabotage, steal tech, etc from an enemy city?

I can only think of 2 possibilities:
1) espionage is done through the foreign advisor.
2) some military units can now also do espionage functions.

Gramphos · September 1, 2001, 14:00

We will have to wait and se. Or ask the civ team.

Alfonsus72 · September 1, 2001, 14:17

Probably if you have citizens in another civ´s city (cause it was yours in the past or by inmigration) you could have information of that city (as the "see city" command of the diplomat/spy in Civ2).
Maybe the information you could have has something to do with your culture points.
But I´m not sure about that. We need official confirmation.

ajbera · September 1, 2001, 15:00

I am also quite curious to see how this is implemented. It is possible that Firaxis has done something really cool with espionage, and are keeping it a surprise.

That said, a comment from a Firaxian either explaining the new espionage system, or a reassurance that some cool new steps in that direction have been made, would be nice. C'mon Dan, you know you wanna tell us.

Ralf · September 1, 2001, 16:16

Quote:

Originally posted by The diplomat
1) espionage is done through the foreign advisor.

I hope its through a manager-screen - either above or through the diplomacy-screen. Both Diplomat-, Spy- and Caravan-units is really not needed. And the camel is dead - we know that already.

Inverse Icarus · September 1, 2001, 16:26

spam the civ team.

anyway, i think city-spacific attacks could eb done by right clicking on an nme city.

lockstep · September 1, 2001, 16:50

Quote:

Originally posted by UberKruX
anyway, i think city-spacific attacks could eb done by right clicking on an nme city.

Well, the term 'nme city' was confusing at first, but then I grasped the wider context.

Gramphos · September 1, 2001, 17:00

Quote:

Originally posted by lockstep
Well, the term 'nme city' was confusing at first, but then I grasped the wider context.

The Spacific attacks is also a bit weird

I hope there is ways for espionage, so that they haven't removed it from the game.

jsw363 · September 1, 2001, 22:46

I really liked the diplomat/spy units. I thought that they had too much power. (Causing a city to revolt from its leader) But useful nonetheless. I don't think that I'd like a "spy ring" sort of where you allocate resources to espionage. Besides don't you need a diplomat to physically GO to another civ to establish an embassy. Of course we don't have any new info on this subject so it's pure speculation.

Ralf · September 2, 2001, 04:52

Quote:

Originally posted by jsw363
Besides don't you need a diplomat to physically GO to another civ to establish an embassy.

No thanks! That should be an understatement. AI-controlled unit-navigation is one of the potential Archilles-heels in turnbased Civ-style games. Just look how a governor-controlled terraformer-unit executes its jobs in SMAC.

I say, put as many AI non-combat units as possible outside the enforced need of AI-pathfinding. They have already trashed the camel/freight, and by the looks of it; also the diplomat/spy. Good! (although they must still keep all above functions through appropriate screens, of course).
I can only hope that Civ-3 AI-workers are aided with some kind of automatic (but player-tweakable) emphazise terrain-improvement maturing-process when it comes to city-areas & resource-spots. And that available landareas is exploited more efficiently then in Civ-2 & SMAC - with more emphasize on coastal-cities, then working inwards. And with player map-edited potential AI-city placement beacons, making it easier to achieve optimal scenario AI-expansion city-foundations.

Any kind of "semi-cheats" and "AI-shortcuts" (in order to produce and strategical output reasonably on par with any veteran civ-player out there, on highest play-levels), are welcome here, since producing such an effective empire-infrastructure is absolutely vital, if the AI-civs shall ever stand a fighting chance.

CyberbugFredrik · September 2, 2001, 07:25

I really loved all the actions that the spy was previously able to issue. Please, Firaxis, make spying and covert operations a vital and interesting part of the game.

tishco · September 2, 2001, 07:55

maybe spys are like MoO 2

lockstep · September 2, 2001, 08:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Ralf

Just look how a governor-controlled terraformer-unit executes its jobs in SMAC.

I hope that workers will at least be able to execute orders a la 'irrigate all grassland tiles within the radius of city XY'.

Quote:

I can only hope that Civ-3 AI-workers are aided with some kind of automatic (but player-tweakable) emphazise terrain-improvement maturing-process when it comes to city-areas & resource-spots.

Sounds like 'Public Works, but only for the AI'.

Why not, as long as the human player has some chance to capture AI workers.

Saint Marcus · September 2, 2001, 11:28

It will probably be something like BotF.

dearmad · September 2, 2001, 13:01

Has Firaxis confirmed no spies in the game? I don't recall this. I think they're going to be in it as units- it's silly of them to remove them from the game only because of bad pathfinding because they've saddled the AI with an even TOUGHER pathfinding dilemma than before: harvesting resources! That seems like it could be a challenge for the human player too!

Inverse Icarus · September 2, 2001, 15:26

Diplomats and Spies are nowhere on the tech tree.

Master Marcus · September 2, 2001, 16:45

Quote:

Originally posted by tishco
maybe spys are like MoO 2

Oh, I hope NOT, I hope NOT! ( MOO2's a great classic of mine, I'm still playing it -again -, BUT forget about its spying engine ). Since the Civ3 team admitted to have used many cool features from SMAC(x), I guess we can anticipate some kind of infiltration based upon that in Civ3, but perhaps not via units since the espionage programming seems to be very limited.

dearmad · September 3, 2001, 00:25

Yes but Uberkrux that tech tree was incomplete, a LOT of units weren't in it... spaces were left open for it.

erg- all this speculation is getting to me...

Inverse Icarus · September 3, 2001, 00:30

markos, get Dan to step in.

Urban Ranger · September 4, 2001, 01:32

I happen to like the way espionage is handled in MoO 1 and 2, very clean and easy to deal with. The Civ way is too many. I have enough units to deal with I don't want them diplomats and spys puzzing around.

The only thing that was good about diplos and/or spies is they make cheap exploring units.