Colonies

Pedrunn · September 5, 2001, 14:25

It worked! It Worked!
I think it is a good idea and it did worked

. One of the things i always thought funny was the city bein in the unit.txt and since i could change the units, why not change the cities?

The first thing in my mind was to make the Leviathon has Pop and can build but it did not work out.
Then a lamp lighted over my head

. Why not make Colonies like civ3 to get resources? And it did worked.

Here is what i did:

1) I Copied the UNIT_CITY, paste it and changeg the name to UNIT_COLONY. I deleted the lines city growth coefficient and NeedsNoSupport. I also gave it a simbolic foodhunger.

2) I created the unit Colonizer. A settler with the lines SettleCityType UNIT_COLONY and SettleSize 0.

3) I went over the Citysize*.txt files and where there was the CITYSIZE_ZERO i changed the line RadiusVision from 1.414 to 0 in all these files.

As a result i got a Unit (the colonizer) that could settle a Colony: City wich has Pop 0, cant grow and does not have radius (The radius is the colony itself).

Conclusions: This new city type could be used to get Goods outside of yours cities borders but it does not need roads like in civ3 what i think it is better because that way you can build overseas colonies. And it still can build what isnt a bad feature it even looks realistic.

We just need to teach the AI to build this colonies over the Goods and to make the colonies disband itself when another city's radius reachs it. A new city sprite was also going to be nice although the Ancient Palace type of city sprite of Martins CityMod2 looks perfect.

What you guys think? Any pros and cons?

Cube · September 5, 2001, 17:42

cool!

How about making it size 1, I don't like size 0 there have to be some people. Could you post the file or the text you edited. I think making the leviathon able to build would be great, but only units. That way you could have units made in the leviathon. I think the reason you couldn't get the leviathon to build stuff is that it can move.

Pedrunn · September 5, 2001, 19:49

Having size 0 is what makes it work. To get this annoyng zero out of the colony we need a new sprite. but i cant make it. Can anyone make this sprite? Martin couldnt you just take the name and the number of the city out of the Ancient palace sprite of your CityMod2?

Still there are the folowing problems:
-The AI wouldnt know how to use it
-It takes a tile of a city when this city expands its radius over it
- It becomes a regular city when it receives a slave .
-It expands the civ borders too much.

This problems are the ones i could not solve any suggestions?

Here are the things i changed in the text files:

I added in the Unit.txt

Code:

UNIT_COLONY {
   Description DESCRIPTION_UNIT_CITY
   DefaultIcon ICON_UNIT_CITY
   DefaultSprite SPRITE_CITY 
   Category UNIT_CATEGORY_GENERIC
   Attack 0
   Defense 0
   ZBRangeAttack 0
   Firepower 0
   Armor 0
   MaxHP 0
   ShieldCost 0
   PowerPoints 1000
   ShieldHunger 0
   FoodHunger 20
   MaxMovePoints 0
   VisionRange 0
   ActiveDefenseRange 0
   LossMoveToDmgNone
   MaxFuel 0
   HasPopAndCanBuild
   CantBuild
   NoIndex
   CantCaptureCity
   SoundSelect1 SOUND_SELECT1_CITY
   SoundSelect2 SOUND_SELECT2_CITY
   SoundMove SOUND_MOVE_CITY
   SoundAcknowledge SOUND_ACKNOWLEDGE_CITY
   SoundCantMove SOUND_CANTMOVE_CITY
   SoundAttack SOUND_ATTACK_CITY
   SoundWork SOUND_WORK_CITY
   SoundVictory SOUND_VICTORY_CITY
   SoundDeath SOUND_DEATH_CITY

   CanSee: Standard
   MovementType: Land
   MovementType: Mountain
   Size: Medium
   VisionClass: Standard

   Revolution {
      Sound SOUND_ID_REVOLUTION
      Effect SPECEFFECT_REVOLUTION
   }
}

and this one has to be added after the Settler Data:

Code:

				
##	UNIT	101	
UNIT_COLONIZER	{		
DefaultIcon	ICON_UNIT_SETTLER		
Description	DESCRIPTION_UNIT_SETTLER		
DefaultSprite	SPRITE_SETTLER		
Category	UNIT_CATEGORY_SETTLER		
Attack	0		
Defense	10		
ZBRangeAttack	0		
Firepower	1		
Armor	1		
MaxHP	10		
ShieldCost	300		
PowerPoints	300		
ShieldHunger	0		
FoodHunger	0		
MaxMovePoints	200		
VisionRange	1		
EnableAdvance	ADVANCE_TRADE	
ActiveDefenseRange	0		
MaxFuel	0		
CanSee:	Standard		
	 		
MovementType:	Land		
MovementType:	Mountain		
Settle:	Land		
Settle:	Mountain	
Size:	Small		
VisionClass:	Standard		
SoundSelect1	SOUND_SELECT1_SETTLER		
SoundSelect2	SOUND_SELECT2_SETTLER		
SoundMove	SOUND_MOVE_SETTLER		
SoundAcknowledge	SOUND_ACKNOWLEDGE_SETTLER		
SoundCantMove	SOUND_CANTMOVE_SETTLER		
SoundAttack	SOUND_ATTACK_SETTLER		
SoundWork	SOUND_WORK_SETTLER		
SoundVictory	SOUND_VICTORY_SETTLER		
SoundDeath	SOUND_DEATH_SETTLER		
LossMoveToDmgNone			
NoZoc			
CanBeExpelled			
CantCaptureCity			
DeathEffectsHappy			
BuildingRemovesAPop			
OnlyBuildOne			
IsSpecialForces			
Civilian			
SettleCityType	UNIT_COLONY		
SettleSize	0		
}

This one has to be raplace all the CITYSIZE_ZERO data in all the Citysize*.txt

Code:

CITYSIZE_ZERO {
		Population	 0
		SquaredRadius	 0
		IntRadius	 0
		MaxWorkers	 0
		GrowthRate 	 60
		MinGrowthRate 	 2500
		MaxSurplusFood 	 250
		BaseOvercrowding   4
		BaseMaxPop 	 0
		VisionRadius	 0
}

I will try to solve the given problems

Immortal Wombat · July 18, 2002, 12:21

If you create a building "colony", make it unbuildable, and include it as one of the automatically built buildings in a colony, then you can use it to distinguish colonies from cities.
Then you can disallow colonies from building for instance, wonders, or certain buildings and units.

eg.

Code:

mod_CanCityBuildWonder(city_t colony, int_t wonder)
{
 if(CityHasBuilding(colony, "IMPROVE_COLONY")){
    return 0;
 } else{
    return 1;
 }
}

centrifuge · July 18, 2002, 13:23

Awesome Job Pedrunn

child of Thor · July 18, 2002, 14:26

nice work pedrunn(you must have stopped the World Cup celebrations i guess?

), this could be a great little strategic addition to CTP2 - i'm all for that. Will it be able to be killed like a normal city upon capture? Or maybe the invaiding army would be able to take it over?that would make you want to keep units around to protect it?

Immortal Wombat · July 18, 2002, 15:33

this thread is nearly a year old...

Locutus · July 18, 2002, 18:59

IW,
Why spoil one of only 64 building on it? Terraforming the terrain or adding a tileimp will do just as well...

The only real problem I see with this solution is slavery: you want to stop it from becoming a real city due to slavery at all cost, but I don't see how this could be accomplished...

Immortal Wombat · July 18, 2002, 19:21

Quote:

Terraforming the terrain or adding a tileimp will do just as well...

Almost. Terraforming would destroy the good, tileimps can be laid under cities?
I thought the 64 building limit was only to those that could be built and have an effect? It you place it as the 65th, then it wouldn't need to even have an effect, just to be there.

HuangShang · July 18, 2002, 19:22

Great idea!!!!!

whys there such a big gap b/w Pedrunn's and Immortal Wombat's first posts?

Immortal Wombat · July 18, 2002, 19:25

I couldn't be bothered to reply 10 months ago. Then Locutus linked to it in the Civ3 resources thread, and I thought this thread was worth bumping. Its a good idea.

Locutus · July 18, 2002, 19:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat
Almost. Terraforming would destroy the good, tileimps can be laid under cities?

D'oh! Good point about the terraforming.

Yes, laying tile imps under cities works just fine...

centrifuge · July 18, 2002, 19:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat

this thread is nearly a year old...

That'll teach me to skim through the posts, without looking at the dates

Anyway, it is a good idea and has a lot of potential for adding a great addition to the game.

Locutus · July 18, 2002, 19:35

The only real problem I see with this solution is slavery: you must at all cost avoid that colonies can turn into regular cities due to slavery, but I see no way of realizing this (except by disallowing any units from entering the colony, but that doesn't make sense either). I think all the other issues can be worked out, but I'm not too sure about this one...

HuangShang · July 18, 2002, 19:38

what does the colonizer cost: 1pt or 1/2 pt or just the resouces

Immortal Wombat · July 18, 2002, 19:49

The version above removes 1pt.

Locutus, could the slavery just be prevented if a colony was the nearest suitable city?

Locutus · July 18, 2002, 20:09

I don't think I understand your question, IW... (Probably because it's past 2 AM over here

)

Immortal Wombat · July 18, 2002, 20:17

Code:

HandleEvent(SlaveRaidCity) 'igfaggfdsgdybh' pre{
    city[1] = NearestCity(unit[0].owner, city[0].location);
    if(HasBuilding(city[1], "IMPROVE_COLONY)){
        return STOP;
        message(unit[0].owner, 'haha_colonyM');
   }
}

would that be too annoying, as colonies are likely to be outposts, and therefore closer to enemies; or would it be a reasonable workaround to stop slavery if a colony was the nearest suitable city

Locutus · July 18, 2002, 20:24

Ah, ok... yeah, that would probably work, but it would indeed be extremely annoying...

Locutus · July 18, 2002, 20:26

Hmm, maybe one could store the data of all units inside the colony in a few arrays, kill all the units, allow the slaveraid to continue and rebuild the units afterwards? Not ideal, but it might work...

Immortal Wombat · July 18, 2002, 20:36

or scan every slave event to see if the colony pop has grown, and if it has, use a barbarian abolitionist on it?

Locutus · July 18, 2002, 20:46

That could work too... only a pity if you lost dozens of potential slaves to colonies...

Solver · July 19, 2002, 07:51

Wait wait, and why on earth would anyone need such a colony?

Locutus · July 19, 2002, 08:27

Weren't you one of the guys who posted a 'can we have a Civ3 mod?' thread...

child of Thor · July 19, 2002, 09:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat
I couldn't be bothered to reply 10 months ago.

i don't know, is that a bit of generation X or what

(got to love the wombat

)

So i guess if a Civ3 mod was to be attempted(God knows why??- it'll probably be easier to just buy Civ3!) this might be one thing to look at, especially if coupled with Martins in-progress Good dependant Mod.

Locutus · July 19, 2002, 10:55

Exactly, we don't want to make a copy of Civ3, but taking the best things from Civ3 and putting them in CtP2 is not a bad idea. Strategic resources (including colonies) is the one feature of Civ3 that CtP2 *really* needs to have an equivilant of.

BTW, another problem with this solution: these colonies will increase the number of cities in a civ, which leads to serious problems with the max city limit. Of course, SLIC can counter the extra unhappiness generated due to all those extra cities, but the UI will still be royally screwed (it will say 26 cities when you really have 12 cities and 14 colonies)

Immortal Wombat · July 19, 2002, 15:11

*sigh*
D A W F D A D F
more problems. Realistically though, this is the only way to get a good as a good - by building a city over or near it. No tileimps or units can solve that one.
By the time you have reached the max city limit, most colonies would have been absorbed I would think. I'd try to settle over colonies ASAP.

Quote:

i don't know, is that a bit of generation X or what

It is? Which generation is that again? I think I'm the tag-end of Generation Y...

Locutus · July 19, 2002, 19:00

Well, *I* for one would found colonies where I can't found cities, on faraway continents and such, ala the Dutch in real history (their colonies were always trade posts and only few of them actually grew into cities (not counting the ones that were taken over by the English or others of course). My #1 obstacle in CtP2 is always the city limit (and to a lesser degree the distance unhappiness)...

HuangShang · July 19, 2002, 20:32

yeah the colonys good if it doesn't suffer the will of the people...

you know citizens and peasants

child of Thor · July 20, 2002, 15:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat

It is? Which generation is that again? I think I'm the tag-end of Generation Y...

Yeah your right - i'm getting old fashioned! I'm the GenX i guess(early settler version!), i love to moan about corporate greed in the games industry messing it all up!

If the colony is cheap to run and low maintenance(in comparison to a city), and really just acted as a way to get to valued resources then i would use them too - i hate having to many cities, especially if they are not in a good location. I suppose happiness will be a problem with the colonies, still if it can have a pop of 0 then that might help?(as there will be no unhappy citizens).
Still if there are no resources/goods then there will be no point for this.