Annoying Allies (Cleopatra can be a real B**** sometimes)

towigg · March 21, 2001, 10:22

I am in a middle of a King level game (randomly generated world) where there has been a World War raging for 2000 years, with me (the English) allied with the Egyptians (Cleopatra) against the Sioux, Russians, and Vikings. The Babylonians and Persians were previously part of the enemy alliance, but I have since eliminated them, incorporated into the glorious English Empire.

The problem is my Egyptian allies. Cleopatra is a real babe, but she can be really annoying sometimes. She started me into this World War by asking me to attack the Persians (who were allied with the Sioux, who in turn were allied with the Vikings and Russians, you can see what happened here). After early successes, with the conquest of Persia and Babylon (who I took out simply because they were there and next to Persia), Cleopatra has started making demands for technology I would rather hold onto myself, but I give in and give it to her so I won't be alone in this great World War fighting her along with everyone else. Also, did I mention she is a real babe?

But the most annoying part is that she insists on planting cities on the edge of my territory on the continent I took from the Persians and Babylonians, and also on another continent I first discovered and settled on my own. The worst part is on an island with room for only 2 cities, which I founded. There was just one small square that was not within the city limits of either city, and Cleopatra decided to place one of her cities there!!! She also insists on having her troops roam all over my territory (making it hard for my settlers to do their work) and gets upset if I ask them to leave. Should I just end this alliance, hope she keeps on fighting the common enemy on her own, to get her troops off my territory, and when I am strong enough, instigage a war (in a way that get her to actually declare it) to fight long enough to capture/raze her cities (depending on the situation) on my lands rightfully settled or conquered by my glorius English Empire? Thanks.

Skeeve · March 21, 2001, 12:33

quote:

Originally posted by towigg on 03-21-2001 09:22 AM

The problem is my Egyptian allies. Cleopatra is a real babe, but she can be really annoying sometimes.

Just like real life.. the Babe factor is always inversely proportional to the annoyance (or B****) factor.

I haven't played CIV2 in a while (mainly because I'm playing CTP2 now), but if I was in that situation I'd build nothing but the best military units, and then slowly move them into strategic locations..... and not only break the alliance, but take Cleopatra's kingdom from under her! Completely by surprise attack! (yeah, yeah.. diplomacy schlomacy).

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My reach exceeds my grasp!

Edward · March 21, 2001, 12:43

towigg,

You need to kick her to the curb. She only loves you for what you can give her.

You mentioned hoping Cleopatra would instigate a war with you, I assume to keep your reputation spotless. Merely cancelling the alliance will damage your reputation. In fact, if you had a peace treaty with the Persians, your reputation took a hit when you succumbed to Cleo's plea to make war with them.

If you want to keep your reputation clean, first make sure your cities near hers are well enough defended. Then you should requests gifts from her and ask that she remove her troops from your territory every turn (even if she has none there). She'll realize you're no longer her sugar daddy and will quickly drop you as if that 2000 year romance meant nothing.

Expect to stand alone against the world after she breaks up with you. For conquest, concentrate on just one geographic area at a time and simply defend your borders elsewhere.

I avoid alliances with neighboring tribes for just the reasons you mentioned.

towigg · March 21, 2001, 14:38

Edward:

I believe your advice is sound and will follow it.

As far as alliances with neighboring tribes, at first we were not neighbors until Cleopatra started founding cities on the two continents I had already settled or conquered. One continent I had gotten about 3/4 of the way settled when she started putting cities on the eastern edge. The other was the one I took from the Persians and Babylonians, and she also started moving in on the eastern edge right after I finished the conquest and before I could fill in the unsettled portions. I should remember my history and what happened to both Julius Caesar and Mark Antony after they got involved with Cleopatra.

Chris1111 · March 21, 2001, 14:46

Know whats going to happen as soon as you break the alliance with Cleopatra....

Egyptians and Russians sign peace treaty
Egyptians and Russians sign the kiev pact to contain English aggression

Egyptians and Vikings sign peace treaty
Egyptians and Vikings sign the memphis pact to contain English aggression

You get the idea 100's of years of hate and blood will stop overnight and they will all ally against you.

She's using you! dump the old bag

[This message has been edited by Chris1111 (edited March 21, 2001).]

the_orange1 · March 22, 2001, 06:40

KILL KILL KILL. Make the heathen swine pay.

Well, that's my opinion anyway.

towigg · March 22, 2001, 09:48

Here's an update: I have eliminated Gunhild of the Vikings by taking her 5 cities and incorporating them into the English Empire. These conquered cities are on the same continent as the hated Russians and Sioux, and I am currently entrenched in them, killing the Sioux and Russians as they come to the edge of my territory, which is fortified with riflemen and cavalry in fortifications. Once the Vikings were subjugated, I stopped giving into Cleopatra's demands. She got upset, declared war, and I captured the 8 cities on the edge of my territory. She started suing for peace after the first couple fell, but I kept fighting until all of them in my territory were captured. Once this was accomplished, I accepted a cease fire, letting her sulk on her continent by herself. She is now "Receptive" according to my intelligence, and did not ally with the Sioux and Russians, surprisingly. I am now letting the Anvil of the captured Viking cities break the hammers of the Sioux and Russians while I build up a fleet of cruisers to sweep the seas clean of the Sioux navy (cruisers) and the Russian navy (destroyers). The Sioux are now Republic (Consul Sitting Bull), and the Russians are ruled by the Patriarch Lenin (A Commie bishop?) since they went fundy. I will let Cleopatra sulk by herself until I have weakened the Sioux and Russians enough so they are no longer a threat. There are rumours of two new civilizations on the horizon (Americans and Japanese), but I don't have the resources to investigate them at this time. They are probably on the scattered islands on the northern regions of the world.

Earwicker · March 27, 2001, 23:43

That's the spirit!

towigg · April 5, 2001, 11:06

Well, I finally won the war. I conquered Egypt, while keeping Russia and Sioux at bay. I then proceeded to finish off the Sioux and Russia. Russia facilitated its own destruction by some strange behaviour. It would sue for peace, giving about 1,000 to sweeten the deal. I would accept, then the next turn, ask Russia to remove its troops from my territory. This cycle then started that finally ended with Russia's destruction:

1. Russia sues for peace, giving about 1,000 in tribute.
2. Next turn, ask Russia to remove troops
3. Russia refuses and declares war. I destroy a few exposed Russian units here and there.
4. Send spy to bribe city to revolt, using money received in step #1. Russia has 1 less city, which the English (me) now has.
5. Repeat cycle with #1.

Have you ever heard of the AI behaving in this self-destructive manner?

Anyway, after the conquest of Russia, All I was left with were the upstart, backwards civilizations of USA and Japan. I conquered both of USA's cities, and left Japan in its 1 city, while I proceeded to change from Republic to Democracy, build Apollo, and launch, landing on AC in 2003 AD, establishing an English colony in space and ending the game.

It was a most challenging and enjoyable game.

Marquis de Sodaq · April 5, 2001, 13:42

Towigg, the AI seems to act according to how it might keep you from winning, not what is in its best interest. If you are supreme, some dumb AI neighbor will sneak attack you, time and again. Think of it as begging for their undoing... If you are weak or small, the AI will not likely do this to you. Silly AI...

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"There is no fortress impregnable to an ass laden with gold."
-Philip of Macedon

Scouse Gits · April 6, 2001, 00:31

Congratulations - may you long enjoy that sweet smell of victory .. or is it napalm?

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Scouse Git[1] -- git1@scousers.net

"Staring at your screen in horror and disbelief when you open a saved game is one of the fun things of a succession game " - Hueij
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven
[This message has been edited by Scouse Gits (edited April 05, 2001).]