Why is Civ II so liked?

Cheese · June 13, 2000, 10:36

I just purchased Civ II Gold and have not played Civ in any flavor as of yet. I've come from a Warlords/AoE world and just can't seem to get into Civ II though it seems that everyone else in the world can. Maybe answers to a few questions can help me out...

I am finding it to be very slow going, especially early in the game. Any Barbarians I encounter seem to move more or less randomly (go over the same squares over and over ) around the map and will occasionally pester me. Is this normal?

I find that AI players just tend to move randomly around my territories as well. I don't get the impression they are mapping or planning an attack. Just random movements. Is this normal?

I find that progressing through techs is confusing. I feel like I am researching things somewhat aimlessly, and the interface doesn't clearly tell me the game value of Fuedalism, though it tells me historically why it was important. Am I messing something up here?

I'm playing on King level and find it pretty easy to be ranked as the top cities. I find that I can create wonders faster than my opponents. I've just started playing this title and am surprised that I find it this easy? Is it that I will be challenged later in the game?

The graphics are very dated. Has anyone tried the graphics patch I've seen here? Is it worth it?

I know I am a newbie, and I really want to like the game, but I find that I spend an hour working on it and I'm not even remotely challenged.

Am I nuts? (Ok, I opened the door there..)

Cheese

Steve Clark · June 13, 2000, 10:49

You have raised some good questions and I hope others can provide their opinions. For now, I can only make these comments. For gamers that have been playing the latest generations of RTS games (AoE, Warcraft, etc.), as well as console games, TBS (turn-based) games like Civ2 would seem anachronistic. Civ2 came out in 1996(?) and it was an enhancement of Civ1 which was developed in 1992(?). Many of us here come from playing strategy and war games since the 1980s, which had all been TBS or some variation of that. I, for one, never played console games (I hate them) so I view RTS as nothing more than a video game that gets boring after a while. So I think a quick answer lies in what type of games have you grown up with or what types are you used to.

Smash · June 13, 2000, 13:10

Keep playing to the end.There is along way to go and much to discover.

Too easy,bump up the difficulty level.

Still too easy?Try winning only ever having 1 city.

Still?-try the scenario Red Front.

Try MP.First few games will be humbling.
[This message has been edited by Smash (edited June 13, 2000).]

Ming · June 13, 2000, 13:53

Yeah... beating the computer is no problem.
Try winning against humans. Give it a try and report back to us how easy the game is

June 13, 2000, 14:00

Great Ming has spoken.

Grr. One time he banned me, be careful with him, Cheese! He feels insulted easily, and the consequences for you can be terrible.

Ming · June 13, 2000, 14:30

"He feels insulted easily"? HA HA HA HA!

If that was the case, half the people at Apolyton would be banned

But seriously... until they produce a smarter AI for the game, the only real competition can be found by playing people who understand the game. It has raised my appreciation of this fine old game to new levels!

Thue · June 14, 2000, 03:45

quote:

Originally posted by Ming on 06-13-2000 01:53 PM
Yeah... beating the computer is no problem.
Try winning against humans. Give it a try and report back to us how easy the game is

Try getting freeciv and winning against that AI...

Ming · June 14, 2000, 06:50

When it becomes available for some other operating system besides Linux, I will give it a try

KhanMan · June 15, 2000, 06:01

Here here!

Freeciv has some really interesting features (looking in from the outside), but a windows-native version isn't one of them...

As for the lack of understanding thing, check out the "Civilopedia" menu, and experiment with the things you can click on, like "tree" in each of the "civilization advances", which shows you what you need to get an advance.

Also, there are a number of nice challenges out there, like:

1. OCC-One City Challenge: Land a space ship on AC, using only one city throughout the game.

2. Nomads Challenge: Never build a city, and only capture them from huts and enemies. This is particularly challenging when played at deity, raging hordes, 7 civizations, excellerated start-up...

(doubt anyone but the best could win with those settings)

Also, as many have mentioned, there's mp-play too: I can beat the ai 99% of the time or more on King, and I'm 0 wins and 13 losses in mp play, if that's any indication...

Best of Luck,
-KhanMan
(who recently tried AoE for the first time...what's all the fuss about?

June 15, 2000, 07:48

quote:

Originally posted by Ming on 06-13-2000 02:30 PM
"He feels insulted easily"? HA HA HA HA!

If that was the case, half the people at Apolyton would be banned

It was only a joke, Ming. But I think you know that, don't you? For you're not one of these whiners in the civ3 forum...

Ming · June 15, 2000, 07:55

Yeah Andz83... I knew it was a joke, and that's why I added my smile at the end...

And as far as the CivIII section goes, I decided to be useful and start the cheat thread. I just wanted to show them how we currently abuse the program, hoping they would clean up their act in the next version.
And, it is a great reference piece for current civII players.

I had a real problem going through many of the other suggestion threads too

June 15, 2000, 08:15

cough

Ming: I wasn't referring to the cheat thread...

Strategist · June 15, 2000, 08:37

Hello Ming, Andz83, Khanman and all the others!

This is my first post here, and I have a question:

What does "OCC" mean?

I also like to play Civilization 2. I hope that I can learn a bit from this forums.

Thue · June 15, 2000, 08:46

quote:

Originally posted by Ming on 06-14-2000 06:50 AM
When it becomes available for some other operating system besides Linux, I will give it a try

Ha - got you Ming. It is available for other operating sytems than linux! How many OS'es do you want?

It runs natively under
GNU/Linux
OpenBSD
NetBSD
FreeBSD
BSDI 4
Amiga
Sun Solaris
SunOS
SGI Irix
IBM AIX
HP HP-UX

With a unix environment (ie an x server) it also runs under
MS Windows 95/98/NT
IBM OS/2

And work is in progress to get it running under
MAC
BeOS
OpenVMS

beat that!
I will interpret your comment that you now have to try freeciv. It does run under some other operating system

[This message has been edited by Thue (edited June 15, 2000).]

Ming · June 15, 2000, 08:47

OCC stands for One City Challange.

Many of that have played for a while were looking for a new challange to keep the game interesting. Trying to win with just one city does indeed test all your skills.
And welcome aboard

And Andz83... I knew you weren't... but since I was one of those Thread Leaders, I wanted to make sure I distanced myself from the stuff you were complaining about... notice I used the smile again

Ming · June 15, 2000, 08:50

Gee Thue... you snuck that post in on me while I was answering another question

GREAT NEWS... so how do I get a copy that runs in a windows environment?
Because I like the concept, I just didn't think I would have linux in the near future...

Thue · June 15, 2000, 08:54

quote:

Originally posted by Thue on 06-15-2000 08:46 AM
With a unix environment (ie an x server) it also runs under
MS Windows 95/98/NT

see http://www.freeciv.org/windows.html
but generelly, and X server costs money

But that doesn't matter, cause since freeciv runs on some OS other than linux, fx amiga, you are now commited to trying it

Cheese · June 15, 2000, 11:18

Well, I tried starting a few more games at the Deity level to get things moving and after three hours of play, I am just walking around the map, a few squares at a time, waiting for things to happen.

I've always enjoyed TBS games, but this one just seems to drag on. I suppose the graphics don't help much either, though the HiRes Mod was an improvement.

Well, thanks for all your responses!

Sten Sture · June 15, 2000, 11:43

Cheese - Civ certainly isn't for everyone. And it is way out of date from a graphic interface standpoint, but we would probably play it without graphics at all.

If you want more action, Civ may not be for you, but I might suggest trying a well designed Civ action scenario like RedFront or Sparticus before you hang it up completely.

The AI programing was done ten years ago so it is in despirate need of a complete overhaul - which is why so many good civers either grossly handicap themselves or play against people instead of the AI.

cavebear · June 15, 2000, 19:19

Concerning the "it's easy to beat the AI in CivII" idea: I suppose it is easy to beat it by going after it militarily and early in the game.

May I suggest that you just let it build itself while you build your own civ. See what it does by 1000AD.

One other point; it seems to me that the AI in CivII is not designed to be aggressive. It seems to do better at development and Wonders. Give the game a chance that way. It's not going to interact while you just wander around the map, so it won't *provide* your entertainment that way. You have to do your own building to get your enjoyment from this game.

KhanMan · June 17, 2000, 01:20

Cavebear-I must say, it is actually easy to beat the ai with those constraints: simply play the "build a 100 cities" game, and use your cities to wall off the ai from whole continents.

Defend yourself, build lots of roads, and maintain a tech lead through trade, and AC will soon be yours.

Thule-Though I think freeciv is a great idea, until someone comes up with a way to get it on Windows without buying expensive applications to run it, that's all I can do: think about it.

-KhanMan

tonic · June 17, 2000, 20:06

Thue: I too have stumbled onto the Freeciv site and have downloaded Andrea's version for Windows. Although I'm not altogether computer-illiterate (and I'm a great supporter of the self-help GNU concept), the installation of Freeciv is somewhat less than friendly. I've still not managed to get the client part of the program running - so any tips would be welcome. (BTW I'm already on their mailing list but with the OS's coverage you listed, the signal-to-noise ratio is somewhat low if you're only interested in Windows).

[This message has been edited by tonic (edited June 17, 2000).]

June 22, 2000, 23:07

I consider myself quite the Civ veteran, though Im not that good (beaten it on king once). That, and i've lurked here for about five months now, and finally decided to throw my hat into the ring.

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i will be the power surge