a lesson on deity - early intercontinental trade

[lord of the mark]

playing diety, 7 civs (no restart) restless, small real world map.
Americans

lucky start - i'm alone in the americas against 6 old world civs - (a definite advantage of small real world map)
finding myself alone, i researched mapmaking early, which i never do with an old world start on a real world map. ive mainly been using caravans for WOW's (HG, and halfway to Colossus in 100BC) but i sent one to europe (madrid) via trireme. it wasnt even in demand and it got 56 beakers, enough for a tech at this point.

I have 7 cities now, I'll go for 3 more, head for mike's (given this position its more important than Leos, i think) getting phil first on the way. then go to republic, celebrate, more WOWs and intercontental trade


LOTM

[markusf]

i'd say you need some practice. In one of my diplogames i am in right now at 1 ad i have 8 wonders, 24 cities and 2 more about to be completed. I didn't share any tech, nor trade with anyone else. Diety 1x 1x raging hordes. In my other one using the same settings(except king this time), with no huts i only have 5 wonders and 20+ cities at 200 bc.

[DrFell]

Fitting 24 cities in the Americas on a small world map is quite a challenge... why don't you provide us with some tips?

[War4ever]

different map

[lord of the mark]

well i definitely need practice. I lost to the Mongols, finally giving up
in late 1800's. I think i went to republic too early, happiness ok (with mikes) but not enough food and shield production.

I've had it. Im trying ICS.

LOTM

[La Fayette]

quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark on 04-03-2001 11:48 PM well i definitely need practice. LOTM

... and perhaps markusf needs modesty.
Guess which of you gets something first?

[Scouse Gits]

quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark on 04-03-2001 11:48 PM I've had it. Im trying ICS.

Welcome to the real world In my mind there is little doubt that playing any type of perfectionist (other than OCC) at deity is much harder than ICS...


------------------
Scouse Git[1]

"Staring at your screen in horror and disbelief when you open a saved game is one of the fun things of a succession game " - Hueij
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

[La Fayette]

quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark on 04-03-2001 02:04 PM playing diety, 7 civs (no restart) restless, small real world map. Americans I have 7 cities now, I'll go for 3 more, head for mike's (given this position its more important than Leos, i think) getting phil first on the way. then go to republic, celebrate, more WOWs and intercontental trade LOTM

Of course you are free to follow SG's advice and play ICS.
If I were you, I would first have another try at intercontinental trade.
If you have a savegame of yours with the 7 cities you talk about, you can use it, but please don't build 3 more cities at once if you want to switch to Republic and grow through WLTCD (8 cities is the max you can have without red faces and you grow your civ much more easily with 8 cities than you do with 10).
Then, being alone in America you should never be afraid of the Mongols (they are not SUCH sailors):
1) Trade like mad, get rich, switch to commie, build vet spies and buy the Mongols at low price if you don't feel like fighting them.
2) If you feel like fighting, you also trade like mad for a start but you discover Physics, then Steam Engine. Then you switch back to Monarchy and you build quickly (stepwise rushbuilding is much cheaper than rushbuying) as many ironclads as you can afford and the Mongols should not have ONE city left by the seaside after a few turns. Then you have won (they won't be able to harm you any more) and you may go to bed (it's nice to have a sleep once in a while, even being a civ addict).
The next day (or the next week) you finish your game and tell us.

------------------
aux bords mystérieux du monde occidental

[lord of the mark]

quote: Originally posted by La Fayette on 04-04-2001 08:34 AM Originally posted by lord of the mark on 04-03-2001 02:04 PM playing diety, 7 civs (no restart) restless, small real world map. Americans I have 7 cities now, I'll go for 3 more, head for mike's (given this position its more important than Leos, i think) getting phil first on the way. then go to republic, celebrate, more WOWs and intercontental trade LOTM Of course you are free to follow SG's advice and play ICS. If I were you, I would first have another try at intercontinental trade. If you have a savegame of yours with the 7 cities you talk about, you can use it, but please don't build 3 more cities at once if you want to switch to Republic and grow through WLTCD (8 cities is the max you can have without red faces and you grow your civ much more easily with 8 cities than you do with 10). Then, being alone in America you should never be afraid of the Mongols (they are not SUCH sailors): 1) Trade like mad, get rich, switch to commie, build vet spies and buy the Mongols at low price if you don't feel like fighting them. 2) If you feel like fighting, you also trade like mad for a start but you discover Physics, then Steam Engine. Then you switch back to Monarchy and you build quickly (stepwise rushbuilding is much cheaper than rushbuying) as many ironclads as you can afford and the Mongols should not have ONE city left by the seaside after a few turns. Then you have won (they won't be able to harm you any more) and you may go to bed (it's nice to have a sleep once in a while, even being a civ addict). The next day (or the next week) you finish your game and tell us.

To clarify, stop at 8 cities, build Mikes, THEN swich to Republic, dont expand or fight till i'm rich and advanced when i go to commie. Should i go for Leo's or SOL in this strat? Should i go to commie as soon as its available - wait till ive at least gotten espionage?

I think you are right, playing perf at deity requires paying careful attention to number of founding cities and riot factor, something ive tended not to do in the past.

[lord of the mark]

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits on 04-04-2001 05:13 AM Welcome to the real world In my mind there is little doubt that playing any type of perfectionist (other than OCC) at deity is much harder than ICS...

Ive started an ICS game without benefit of DaveV's guide (due to apolyton problems). So its ICS as i interpret it. 7 civs, restless, random map. Its intersting, but i want to check out the guide.

LOTM

[La Fayette]

quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark on 04-04-2001 12:17 PM To clarify, stop at 8 cities, build Mikes, THEN swich to Republic, dont expand or fight till i'm rich and advanced when i go to commie. Should i go for Leo's or SOL in this strat? Should i go to commie as soon as its available - wait till ive at least gotten espionage?

Stop at 8 cities = yes
Build Mikes = yes
THEN switch to Rep = yes (choosing the optimal oedo year to switch to Rep needs some training, but you can get very good results switching later).
IMO what might be dangerous is switching much too soon. Here is some advice (in order to be able to grow through WLTCD shortly after switching; otherwise Rep is not much use):
HG is a great help (I would advise all beginners at Rep to build it previously)
1 trade route/city is a great help (though not needed if you have HG)
Cash is a great help (building needed improvements in nongrowing cities)
Peace is a great help (don't switch if you are involved in a fierce battle: Rep is OK for defensive wars, but offensive wars under Rep need previous training)
don't expand = no (= don't build new cities before switching to commie, but please grow them to size 6 or 7 or 8, and you SSC to BIG SIZE)
don't fight = no (= don't start wars, but fight hard to defend your fatter and fatter cities, if needed)
Leo = up to you (I love it for engineers and hate it for ironclads)
SOL = up to you (oedo years are enough IMO)
Build 'soft commie' (with SOL) = no (you are running towards commie and espionage; don't stop at SOL, run!)
Switch to commie as soon as you get the tech = yes (except if you are going to deliver 10 highly demanded caravans next turn, then wait one turn, no more).
If you choose AC after smashing the Mongols to bits, you can perfectly switch to fundy or dem according to your needs and wishes.
If you choose conquest, stay commie and use your vet spies wisely (they are so enchanting that they lead you to victory as a magic carpet ).


------------------
aux bords mystérieux du monde occidental

[Scouse Gits]

One of these days, LaFayette -- your beautiful vet spies must meet my religiously inclined hordes and we shall see what we shall see ???????
________
SG[1] -- forgetting to hit the sig button
[This message has been edited by Scouse Gits (edited April 05, 2001).]

[La Fayette]

SG(1)
1) I am anxious to know what a sig button is (suppose it is that kind our common friend smokey loves hitting: I might find it reasonable to run away).
2) Aren't you one of those who religiously (or magically) transform black faces into light blue? and build hundreds of cities when I usually stop at 8? would I stand a chance of building one vet spy before being overwhelmed by that boiling mixture of knights and crusaders?
3) My city walls are (for the time being) that I have no link to the web at home (I post from my office... hush ).
4) I suppose those walls are going to tumble down quite soon after such a nice offer.
5) Thank you anyway (shall think about it on vacation, very soon ...hush ).

------------------
aux bords mystérieux du monde occidental

[Scouse Gits]

La Fayette

1) the sig(nature) button that displays the trite nonsense at the end of my posts thus distinguishing me from my more erudite partner in crime ...
2) yes indeed, I am a true follower of the creed as laid down by our Holy Exemplar DaveV -- but see my comments on black to blue in another thread ...
3) for a long time - I too enjoyed such city walls, however - time and tide (and a 15 year old daughter) wait for no man - I am now electronically challenged both at work and home ...
4) Oh I do hope so - we are in the process of persuading EST to join in and we can have what promises to be a great European MP game ...
5) great ...

the gauntlet lies at your feet, Sir.

------------------
Scouse Git[1] -- git1@scousers.net

"Staring at your screen in horror and disbelief when you open a saved game is one of the fun things of a succession game " - Hueij
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

[La Fayette]

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits on 04-05-2001 12:43 PM La Fayette the gauntlet lies at your feet, Sir.

If EST is going to be the chronicler, I might get fifty pages of shame on me if that gauntlet remains untouched.
I promiss to have a look at MGE and other useful equipment during my holidays (sorry I wrote vacation... and harbor and the like, but my name is La Fayette after all).


------------------
aux bords mystérieux du monde occidental

[Scouse Gits]

Why apologise for 'vacation' it is perfectly good English although more commonly used for academic 'vacs' than for common-or-garden 'hols'.
We await your pleasure, Sir -- or should we be nominating 'Seconds' in dualist style.

------------------
Scouse Git[1] -- git1@scousers.net

"Staring at your screen in horror and disbelief when you open a saved game is one of the fun things of a succession game " - Hueij
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

[La Fayette]

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits on 04-06-2001 04:16 PM or should we be nominating 'Seconds' in dualist style.

no 'Seconds' required
'vacs' begin to-morrow
back in May (with armour, lance, charger and the rest of needed equipment, I hope)