Veteran units...

[Fubla]

Forgive me if I'm poorly educated on such matters, but do veteran units "heal" any faster than non-vet units? I have absolutely no scientific evidence to back this up, but it seems like it to me. Maybe I'm loony. I wouldn't be suprised.

[Gastrifitis]

It's possible that your veteran units were built in a city with a Barracks, and are healing themselves there. That would certainly make them heal faster. Other than that, I haven't really noticed a faster healing effect. It would make some sense if there was one, though. Units that have seen action would be more interested in achieving full fighting strength.

[finbar]

A vet unit created by a barracks in the unit's home city repairs itself in a turn. Vets created by Sun Tzu don't heal themselves in a turn.

------------------
Founder, ACS Pedantry Institute
Founder, ACS Gourmet Recipe Exchange
Troll & Hydey Wrangler
Mono Rules!
#33984591

quote: Originally posted by finbar on 03-26-2001 01:05 AM A vet unit created by a barracks in the unit's home city repairs itself in a turn. Vets created by Sun Tzu don't heal themselves in a turn.

No, this isn't correct. Any damaged ground unit that spends his entire turn without moving in any city containing barracks will be competely healed in one turn. I always make sure to rushbuild barracks in some newly-conquered cities where I can move all my damaged units to be healed and back to action ASAP. I also rushbuild airports for fighter/bomber 1-turn healing as well as port facilities to my navy for the same reason.

[La Fayette]

quote: Originally posted by Marko Polo on 03-26-2001 11:17 AM Any damaged ground unit that spends his entire turn without moving in any city containing barracks will be competely healed in one turn.

AFAIK this is correct.
It gives the answer to one half of the question: no faster healing of veterans in cities with barracks (since ALL units turn back green in 1 turn).
In cities without barracks my feeling is the same: no faster healing for veterans.
My suggestion: Fubla, test this and give us the result (IMO no need to enter cheat mode and spend hours testing; take a pencil when playing your next game and write down the number of turns required by vet and non vet units having turned red after a fight, then do the same with vet and non vet having turned yellow).
Have a nice time Fubla! Welcome to the tester's club!

------------------
aux bords mystérieux du monde occidental

[SlowThinker]

I have found my old tests:
40% of total hit points healed every turn in non-barrack city
20% of total hit points healed every turn max. 3 squares from city (i.e. a square 7x7 squares; I didn't take notice of a presence of barracks in the city)
10% of total hit points healed every turn on normal square

Unit must not move (an idea: can unit move on the railroad?).
I didn't take notice of the vet status.
------------------------------
All knowledge stored at Apolyton must be sorted!

[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited March 27, 2001).]

No, I think Vet heal at the same rates. all units heal faster in cities.

I think a unit almost heals completely in a turn if its fortified.

[East Street Trader]

From impirical observation only, no difference vet/non vet.

Reading your post, Archangel, has jogged my memory and I do seem to recall one or two occasions when I've thought my unit made surprising progress. Overall, though, I doubt that entrenchment made the difference. I suspect the units I noticed may just have been close to one of my cities.

I think that instructing a unit to entrench may cost it the healing points it would otherwise get that turn. A unit which stays entrenched throughout bounces back immediately after suffering the damage.

I distinctly noted a case recently where the navy had to pick up a survivor. I expected the ensuing long sea voyage to do him a power of good. But when the ship docked half a dozen turns later the lad was pretty much as poorly as when he was carried aboard. Seasick, I expect. Anyone else had that happen?

I also wonder whether ships recover to the same formula as land based units?

Have you noticed that barbs wear their wounds with pride? I used to think they lacked the ability to heal but then I saw a couple who were well into the red take refuge in a fortress (as they love to do) and they proceeded to heal perfectly naturally. So it is just their love of battle and compulsion to keep on the move that stops them recovering. That, or a desire to meet up with their mates in Valhalla!
[This message has been edited by East Street Trader (edited March 28, 2001).]

Weird.. my post was disappeared and was messing this thread in a strange way. A couple of posts behind this were mysterically inside this post. There was a command 'center' included here when I went to edit this; now it has been removed and the problem seized.

OK, now what I was saying.. oh yes: unit healing. In my experience the unit doesn't get healed even if you move it via railroad (and it don't lose movement points). It must stay completely unmoved in order to be healed. Anyone agree with me?
[This message has been edited by Marko Polo (edited March 28, 2001).]

[SlowThinker]

quote: Originally posted by Marko Polo on 03-28-2001 06:46 AMIt must stay completely unmoved in order to be healed. Anyone agree with me?

"unmoved" or "unordered"?

[Xin Yu]

If a unit attacked, it is considered moved. However if you sentry or fortify it, the unit still gets healed.

Not sure: Engineers can transform terrain and still get healed?

[SlowThinker]

removed
[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited March 28, 2001).]

[Scouse Gits]

A small point - in my experience - units do repair during sea voyages - so I am unsure what went wrong in your example EST -- also a wounded unit put to sleep (sentry) wakes up when it is completely healed...

------------------
Scouse Git[1]

"Staring at your screen in horror and disbelief when you open a saved game is one of the fun things of a succession game " - Hueij
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

[La Fayette]

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits on 03-28-2001 12:40 PM A small point - in my experience - units do repair during sea voyages - so I am unsure what went wrong in your example EST .

I would swear I have encountered both (healing and non healing during sea voyages).
My lab is closed.
So I won't tell you why (ask ST, perhaps he has also tested that before really starting playing his first game at chieftain level ).

[Chainsaw]

Xin Yu:
I´m pretty sure Settlers/Engineers heal during working map squares. It doesn´t matter what the job actually is.

quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker on 03-28-2001 04:06 PM "unmoved" or "unordered"?

Unmoved. I opened my lab last evening to check this. I attacked and moved a wounded mech inf to a city. Next turn it was in the town ready for orders. Now I could give him any order (fortify, sleep, skip turn) and he got healed next turn. However if I moved him out of the city and immediately back (via railroad), he didn't got healed, even when he didn't lose any movement points. So the key thing to get your unit healed is not to move it. However, you can freely give him orders, as Xin Yu stated in his post.

[Thoth]

quote: Originally posted by Xin Yu on 03-28-2001 04:18 PM Not sure: Engineers can transform terrain and still get healed?

Yes. I'm not sure if any hp are recovered in the turn the settler/engineer is given the order, but they definitely heal while working.

[East Street Trader]

Marko. looks as though I was wrong to think that telling an injured unit in the field to entrench costs any healing time, then.

SG and LaFayette. The failed "long sea voyage" convalescence was a one off and may well be nothing more than faulty observation. What I thought I noticed was not quite a total absense of healing but rather that the rate of healing seemed a good bit slower than normal.

But my units healing in the field are, typically, in fortresses three squares from a city which probably colours my expectations. At sea the unit would not get the benefit of the accelerated rate pointed out by Slow Thinker for being close to the city's facilities.

[Deity Dude]

for whats it worth - and this is untested - it seems to me that units heal slower on ships than on non-city terrain.

[La Fayette]

quote: Originally posted by East Street Trader on 03-29-2001 09:15 AM At sea the unit would not get the benefit of the accelerated rate pointed out by Slow Thinker for being close to the city's facilities.

This looks quite reasonable to me.
I test in 2002
(if ST has not finished testing anything in the meantime)

[Blaupanzer]

Refocusing on Fubla's question for a moment, vet units would recover more hit points per turn than corresponding non-vets. (This because they have more potential points in the first place.) However, all seem to be in agreement that they heal at the same rate, percentagewise. ST, my observation is that ships don't seem to get the city radius bonus experienced by land units. Is that right?
[This message has been edited by Blaupanzer (edited April 06, 2001).]

[SlowThinker]

Blaupanzer,
my tests were on land only.

BTW, somebody could take 15 minutes and check out all hypothesis written here in last two weeks and take 10 minutes and say the results to us. Then we could close this thread
SG(2), I know you don't agree with me, you like "the social side of forums"
------------------------------
All knowledge stored at Apolyton must be sorted!

[Scouse Gits]

quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker on 04-06-2001 06:43 PM BTW, somebody could take 15 minutes and check out all hypothesis written here in last two weeks and take 10 minutes and say the results to us. Then we could close this thread SG(2), I know you don't agree with me, you like "the social side of forums"

I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion. If you want to talk about the Great Library we can either do this on the discussion thread you started in the General Section, or you can send me a PM.

--------

SG(2)
[This message has been edited by Scouse Gits (edited April 06, 2001).]

[La Fayette]

quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker on 04-06-2001 06:43 PM BTW, somebody could take 15 minutes, you like "the social side of forums"

Shall I take 15 minutes?
Not to day, because I know how it works: you start a '15 minutes test', then discuss result #1 with Slow Thinker and the end of it is that the GL is 15 pages thicker
Furthermore I confess I like the "social side..."
(don't deny ST! you like it too)

[SlowThinker]

Scouse Gits,

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion. If you want to talk about the Great Library we can either do this on the discussion thread you started in the General Section, or you can send me a PM.

"the social side of forums" is a quotation from your post on page 3

La Fayette,

quote: Originally posted by La Fayette Furthermore I confess I like the "social side..." (don't deny ST! you like it too)

Of course, but I would like to separate it from the "informational side..."

[La Fayette]

quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker on 04-09-2001 06:41 PM Of course, but I would like to separate it from the "informational side..."

ALL INFORMATION ON THIS FORUM SHOULD BE SORTED

(sure I reopen my lab when back from vacation)

------------------
aux bords mystérieux du monde occidental

[Scouse Gits]

ST - For somebody, who seeks a logical approach to matters, it seems a pity that you don't apply the same standards when quoting another person's post. This is what I actually wrote in the thread you refer to:

I think new posters on the site welcome some dialogue with the existing members. I don't want the GL to cut out the social side of these forums. Exchanging views with posters new or old is part of Apolyton's success. Sure, a number of threads will keep repeating on a subject covered many times - so what? There is always something to learn for somebody.
I always look on the Civ2 threads as the daily news - the GL is more of the magazine for concentrated study. They complement each other.
I agree with you that organisation has to be brought into this thread. I think the idea of the Index is a good start.

Perhaps you now understand my confusion?

---------------------------

SG(2)

[SlowThinker]

SG(2),
I will fight a little

In fact, it is La Fayette who taught me that style. He often do allusions to other threads, I don't know what he's speaking about, and I found it out later when I read another thread.

And, IMHO, it was more comical without a quote (I hope you undestand my english: I am not sure about the word order). Or, it would be more comical if you would remember your words, I was mistaken here.
You know, I though you are not so forgetful. (It was a retaliation against your it seems a pity that you don't apply the same standards... )

{combat system}
{healing}{vet status}
{}{SlowThinker}{end2}

------------------------------
This is a post with keywords. See a thread The Great Library: a hierarchical structure" thread.
[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited April 15, 2001).]

[Scouse Gits]

SG(2)

[SlowThinker]

I have admitted 2 new employees to my lab:
land units:
100% of total hit points healed every turn in a city with barracks.
40% of total hit points healed every turn in a non-barrack city
30% of total hit points healed every turn max. 3 squares from city with barracks(i.e. a square 7x7 squares)
20% of total hit points healed every turn max. 3 squares from a non-barrack city
10% of total hit points healed every turn on normal square
Fortress adds 10% (normal square, near city, near barracked city). I didn't test a city built on a fortress. I did't prove a fortress very close to a city (there might be an aditional bonus?)


naval/aerial units:
20%/20% of total hit points healed every turn in a fortress or a city
10%/0% of total hit points healed every turn on normal square
100%/100% of total hit points healed every turn in a city with port facility/airport
Airbase, barracks has no effect
port facility/airport affects just the city square

a land unit on a boat is still a land unit, but it is NOT considered moving if the ship moves ( ship IS considered as a moving unit when moving).

a non-moving order doesn't harm healing

vet status, sleep and fortify mode doesn't effect healing

there may be a mistake

[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited April 18, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited April 19, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited April 19, 2001).]