Hut pattern

[Deity Dude]

I know what the special resources pattern looks like - basically a swastika - but what does the hut pattern look like, or the shield pattern...

If there's a previous thread please point me to it if its too long to go into here. I looked in the archives under hut and couldn't find anything. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Smash]

use map editor and make a small all plains or forest.Anything cept grass.

[airdrik]

the grassland sheild pattern lookes something like this:

SnSnSnSnSn
nSnSnSnSnS
nSnSnSnSnS
SnSnSnSnSn
SnSnSnSnSn
nSnSnSnSnS

tilted to the terrain, where S indicates grassland sheild, and bold is where a special is (I believe, I'm doing this from memory). The pattern of specials is repeated with a 2 or 3 tile break in bands about 3-4 tiles apart, and reversed.
[This message has been edited by airdrik (edited April 09, 2001).]

[Eli]

I think that your specials are incorrect there.

[Blaupanzer]

We have had a discussion of hut patterns before. They come in the form of an oblong box if I recall. Turn on the cheat in a game you are not really going to play. It's really clear.

[John-SJ]

Yes, wouldn't the specials be something like:


----S----
-------S-
-----C---
---S-----
------S--

Where 'S' is a special, 'C' is a perfect city location with access to 4 specials.

John-SJ

(Sorry, don't recall the hut pattern off hand.)

[Ming]

Yeah... just use your map editor and create a world with all land. The basic pattern is easy to spot, four to a pattern. Then see how they all connect, and you can get pretty good at knowing where all the huts are.

But there is nothing worse than finding a one square ocean where a hut should be

[Laertes]

quote: Originally posted by Ming on 04-09-2001 10:55 PM But there is nothing worse than finding a one square ocean where a hut should be

Yes there is - I always find the top corner of the pattern on my southern coast, with three huts submerged. Grrr

[Scouse Gits]

Useful tip -- Where there's a hut there's a Special! (two squares orthogonally) and if you can't see it - it is still there, but hidden on Grass

------------------
Scouse Git[1] -- git1@scousers.net

"Staring at your screen in horror and disbelief when you open a saved game is one of the fun things of a succession game " - Hueij
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

[towigg]

In order to reveal the shield or the special, how would you need to improve the land: Any other land type to grassland to get the shield, and grassland to some other land type to get the special? Thanks.

[Marquis de Sodaq]

quote: Originally posted by towigg on 04-10-2001 03:56 PM In order to reveal the shield or the special, how would you need to improve the land: Any other land type to grassland to get the shield, and grassland to some other land type to get the special? Thanks.

Bingo! Grassland is the only terrain type that does not have a special. It is also the only one that instead has the shield bonus. Change one to the other, et voila! Experiment in your map editor to see what Scouse Gits talks about with the 2 square special/hut relation.



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"There is no fortress impregnable to an ass laden with gold."
-Philip of Macedon

[Scouse Gits]

towigg -- you haven't quite got it a special is on a square - or not - so you can never turn say forest to grass and then to silk -- what I meant was that if there is no visible special in any of the four squares two away orthogonally from a hut one of the grass squares in one of these four positions WILL be a special - which one can often be deduced from the special pattern -- IMHO these are just about the only squares it is worth thinking about terraforming in the early game (by terraforming I mean 'M'ing into forest in the hope of detecting silk or pheasant)

------------------
Scouse Git[1] -- git1@scousers.net

"Staring at your screen in horror and disbelief when you open a saved game is one of the fun things of a succession game " - Hueij
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

[Deity Dude]

Thanks everyone this is very helpful.

P.S. Am I the only one here who doesn't know the meaning of "orthogonally"

[Taurus]

quote: Originally posted by Deity Dude on 04-10-2001 05:56 PM Thanks everyone this is very helpful. P.S. Am I the only one here who doesn't know the meaning of "orthogonally"

Orthogonally is basicly a fancy word for perpendicular, although it has other mathimatical uses too.

------------------
"But as time goes on, they, as all men, will find that independence was not made for man - that it is an unnatural state - will do for a while, but will not carry us on safely to the end..." Aldous Huxley in "Brave New World"

[Blaupanzer]

quote: Originally posted by John-SJ on 04-09-2001 10:51 PM Yes, wouldn't the specials be something like: ----S---- -------S- -----C--- ---S----- ------S-- Where 'S' is a special, 'C' is a perfect city location with access to 4 specials.

Middle two Ss are one off. Top middle goes one to the right, bottom middle, one to the left. Hence the "swastika pattern" many mention.

[Sirotnikov]

quote: Originally posted by Deity Dude on 04-10-2001 05:56 PM Thanks everyone this is very helpful. P.S. Am I the only one here who doesn't know the meaning of "orthogonally"

I didn't know it either.

or-thog-o-nal (ór thog'uh nl)  adj. 

                  1.  a.  Also,  Math. 

                            pertaining to or involving right 

                            angles or perpendiculars.

                  2.  Crystall. referable to a rectangular set 

                       of axes.

             [1565-75; obs. orthogon (ium) right triangle (< LL 

             orthogonium < Gk orthog_nion right-angled; see 

             ORTHO -, - GON) + - AL 1]

   Derived words

             --or-thog'o-nal-ly, adv. 

             --or-thog o-nal'i-ty, n. 

And I still can't figure out what it means

[Scouse Gits]

Sorry guys, yes once long ago I was a mathematician ...

Orthogonally in this context means moving like a rook in a game of chess -- ie if you ignore the slant of the representation of the map and simply think of a checkerboard:

xxOxx
xxxxx
OxHxo
xxxxx
xxOxx

H is the hut, x is an irrelevent square and exactly one of the Os will be a special (perhaps hidden)

Have I got it across this time?

[Mixam]

Actually I too was stumped by orthogonaly even after looking it up

However after i created an entire plains map in map editor it became clear. Only one thing is it not narrowed down to only 2 choices instead of 4? From what i saw in my experiment map it was like this

xxxxO
xxxxx
xxHxx
xxxxx
Oxxxx

Where H is hut O is possible special (one or the other but not both)
And my diagram is as in game and not turned

Maybe i am using a dif seed or something correct me if I'm wrong

[Eli]

quote: Originally posted by Blaupanzer on 04-10-2001 06:21 PM Middle two Ss are one off. Top middle goes one to the right, bottom middle, one to the left. Hence the "swastika pattern" many mention.

No, his pattern is exactly the correct one.

[Smash]

To get technical,it does not resemble a swastika.Its backwards.It is a religious symbol from an old Indian religion IIRC

[Marquis de Sodaq]

quote: Originally posted by Smash on 04-12-2001 08:44 PM To get technical,it does not resemble a swastika.Its backwards.It is a religious symbol from an old Indian religion IIRC

North American plains Indians, Lakota (IIRC), symbol for power/strength

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"There is no fortress impregnable to an ass laden with gold."
-Philip of Macedon

[Scouse Gits]

[blatant OT remark]
Monsieur Le Marquis,
I have attempted to expound the arcane art of making posted links in a Private Message to you - please have a look ...
[/blatant OT remark]

The Swastika thing - yes it is certainly reversed in Nazi usage, but my recollection is that it is an Arian (mid to far eastern culture ?Indian?) symbol originally - the use by Amerindians is certainly news to me.

------------------
Scouse Git[1] -- git1@scousers.net

"Staring at your screen in horror and disbelief when you open a saved game is one of the fun things of a succession game " - Hueij
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

[Boney]

On this 'trivial pursuit' the Swastika can be be found as a symbol in more than a few cultures. In India for example there are both clockwise and anti-clockwise Swastikas, one feminine and one masculine. But I have seen them all over Asia, and they can also be found in Africa and South America as well as North America. The Nazis actually stole the Symbol from the "Thule society", I do not know what or who they were. It is just sad what this symbol came to represent.

[SlowThinker]

{map}
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This is a post with keywords. See a thread The Great Library: a hierarchical structure" thread.

[Blaupanzer]

Eli,

No his pattern is not correct. In my version of civ (2.42), the city must be placed so it does not touch any of the specials (diagonally, vertically, or horizontally) in order to take advantage of a four special situation. This looks like:

xxSxxxx
xxxxxSx
xxxCxxx
xSxxxxx
xxxxSxx

Hence my comment. His pattern shows two specials in a three hex diagonal. I've never seen that. Or maybe it's just my eyesight. (It's hell to grow old, but the alternative is not known to be interactive.)

[Mixam]

Hope these show up right Turn them 45 degrees and it is as in the game. Sorry some of the borders didn't show up but all the specials and huts did. C = Best city location S = Special H = Hut

Special Pattern

	S	*	*	*
				S
		C
S
			S

Hut Pattern

	*	*	*	H	*	*
*	*	*	*	*	*	*
H	*	*	*	*	*	*
*	*	*	*	*	*	*
*	*	*	*	*	*	H
*	*	*	*	*	*	*
*	*	H	*	*	*	*

[This message has been edited by Mixam (edited April 20, 2001).]

[Ming]

OK... that is the basic hut pattern... but you still really need to look at a custom all land map to view the full pattern. It shows how the 4 patterns fit together. If you have found two 4 patterns, you then know where every hut on the map can be.

[Mixam]

Yes Ming, If find a spot that is missing one special for that pattern then 2 of those specials make up a full pattern. It is hard to explain. I chose not to show the whole pattern cause i would have to show 2 for special and for hut there is also two patterns. Yes if you find two of the four patterns for the hut you can find them all but does anyone really pay that much attention? I usually just find one and use the four pattern to find the next three. Then the next four pattern beside it. I don't find all the huts using this though. Do you?

[Ming]

Well... Yeah... once you find two 4 patterns, the entire pattern is then known. Why wouldn't I use the knowledge?

[Mixam]

Well just that I mean the hut pattern ain't exactly as simple as the sheild pattern for grassland. I mean first of all you would have to record the x,y location of the first 8 huts and then count off what it is like 6 squares between each pattern horizontally and 4 or so vertically. You actually do that! I don't even bother with Oedo years yet but I only play the AI right now. I prob won't even play multiplayer till civ III comes along.