road explanations, river hopes and wonders

[tishco]

wonders, the civfanatics inteview is disapointing in new info, the good stuff is a bit regurgitated, but the woders info is the worst, just a popup picture! no moovies or even the OK sounding animations!
i saw a screen shot which had a pop up with a pic and
"sir weve completed the oracle" being said by an advisor, i thought that was the build up to the anim or whatever, but that was it! just a popup over the map, not a anim ON the map

oh well, the movies got boring but you just cant enjoy a pic for as much time, maybe the music will be V good...


people have wrote the roads are ugly and are thicker and thiner in different places, that is because when twocities join by road (rail?) and therefore trade resorces the road thickens the shortest way there. this is good, no ugly, SMAC roads very kinda ugly: brown against browny red

i want to use rivers to trade resorces but i will be disapointed i recon, maybe for civ 4 you can build two cities on the same river and they trade resorces.

[UKScud]

I agree with you regarding the importance of river trade...but isn't that already simulated in the game by the addition of an extra trade icon on a river tile.

What might be more appropriate is to remove the bonus for river trade in the modern age,since it plays a much less significant role in trade.

I agree that rivers ought to be part of the resorce distribution network. I think that that would be a significant bonus for a civ near to rivers...might unbalance gameplay though?

Personally, I'd include it. But require the construction of colony at one end, and a "river dock" city improvement at the other end.

I'm sad about the wonder movies. They did get stale after many many games, but they were a nice treat after the effort of trying to build the wonder...and given that it looks much much more difficult to build wonders in Civ3, I reckon they should be there still too.

[Leonidas]

I'll miss the movies too. It was quite a thrill the first time to see the movies when I built the Great Pyramid. It made you feel apart of history. . .

[PGM]

I'm glad about this info. I wouldn't want to wait a single day for Wonder movies or animations that I'd turn off the second time I'd play the game anyway. I hope they focus on the important stuff. I don't think it would be worth the time and effort. A good Wonder movie would last for a week or two, a good game will last for years.

[Rhysie]

Originally posted by UKScud
What might be more appropriate is to remove the bonus for river trade in the modern age,since it plays a much less significant role in trade.

Although an alternative view to take is that in modern ages the trade bonus from rivers represents the commercial oppertunities that having a river within easy access of a city gives you...

Riverside cafes, canal trips, boating, fishing competitions... There are lots of commercial ventures you can embark upon with a handy river which you can't without... And people will pay a lot more to tour a city on a steam boat than they will on an open top bus.

[tishco]

also, in the insdustrial revolution in the UK rivers and canals were the fastest transport for a while, maybe being able to build canals from rivers before railroad would be a good idea 4 civ 4. that also increased trade because it was a small watery island so the trade went round quick.

i suppose the moovies goings ok, but i was looking forward to a animation that stayed forever, so it wasnt just one off and would last longer.
i really wanted to know what the anim was and now its just a "beutiful portrait"

[Sandman]

Rivers now travel between squares.

So the defensive bonus now only applies if combat is taking place over a river.

As for trade, well it's not yet clear how rivers will affect this. Possibly squares with a river on one side will have increased trade. But since a square could possibly have three or four rivers going around it, the benefits could be huge. Also, if a city is placed in tile bounded on three sides by rivers, then it will gain a large defensive bonus as well.

I've seen river deltas in the screenshots as well. Not all rivers have them. I wonder if they provide a food bonus in the two squares they are in?

I really hope that rivers are sensible shapes. In previous civs it was possible to find huge river 'grids' which were great places to put cities but looked pretty stupid.

The interview with Jeff Morris seems to suggest that rivers are not animated. What a pity.

[tishco]

i was wondering about the rivers position on the squares, fom the cool screensaver it looked like they were between, thanx for confirming it

[dearmad]

I noticed that too- Rivers seem to flow "between" tiles and so I wondered if both or neither tiles get the influence of the river.

[Stuie]

I too have been wondering about the between-tile rivers. How will they function...

Will crossing them require additional movement points? Or will crossing be prohibited without a bridge? Will there be defensive bonuses to units defending behind a river? Can the tiles on each side of the river be irrigated? Will any trade bonuses be accrued by cities using tiles around rivers?

[UKScud]

if a city is placed in tile bounded on three sides by rivers, then it will gain a large defensive bonus as well.

I love this idea. It is really going to increase the value of having river tiles within your borders. It'll make us think much more carefully where we build our cities...and, especially early on, which cities we attack. Perhaps the only way to take such a city would be via the cultural subversion method.

Will crossing them require additional movement points?

I think it ought to, as the defensive bonus portrays the river as a barrier. But then, in previous versions of Civ, rivers have aways provided a movement bonus to represent the ease of moving things down river. Can you do this if the rivers run in between squares?

Although an alternative view to take is that in modern ages the trade bonus from rivers represents the commercial oppertunities that having a river within easy access of a city gives you...

I agree with this. It makes sense that the river bonus should stay because of money brought in through tourism and the like.

[Jarouik]

I think there have been several city view screenshots where you can see that indeed all squares bordering a river will get an extra trade arrow - for example an official screenshot at http://www.civ3.com/images/screenshots/citymgt2.jpg (the second screenshot on the second page of gallery) or an older one at http://apolyton.net/civ3/images/view...ts/image20.jpg. Just look closely - the rivers are a bit hard to discern from the irrigation.

[Jarouik]

And yes, regarding the river benefits on trade: I do not think they will be huge or unrealistic, since I believe you will only get one extra trade no matter how many rivers a square is next to. Having the river bonus extend to a larger area than just a single square will make river valleys very desirable city locations, however, as I think is historically accurate.

[Sandman]

River thoughts.

Rivers are now vital for the success of any large civilization. Why?

Well, the new random map generator makes large round continents, rather than the thin stringy ones of Civ2. There also appears to be far fewer lakes and inland seas. Therefore rivers will be extremely important for the ability to make irrigation next to them. The colonization of dry interiors will be difficult without rivers.

The screenshots seem to show two distinct types of river. One is wide, and relatively straight, the other is narrow and meandering.
They don't seem to appear in any particular order.

My bet is that it is only the wide, straight rivers which assist movement.

The defensive aspects of rivers are extremely interesting. A city which is bounded on three sides by a river having just a few weak points is a cool tactical challenge. I hope the AI appreciates this as well, and tries to cross the river before attacking.

A thought leading on from this is 'what if you could build city walls in sections?' Most of the time you would order the construction of a complete wall, but in certain situations it would be preferable to build just sections, to save time and money.

Imagine if your city is on a peninsula, and can only be attacked from the southwest. Instead of building a full wall, you order the constuction of just a southwest wall, enabling you to concentrate on other tasks.