OCC fortnight #22

[Paul]

Calling it fortnight is more tradition than reality now.

This time I thought it might be fun to play on a gigamap. This does mean that you'll need MGE to play. I don't know if gigamaps work on the Mac, maybe someone with a Mac can try it and tell us.

You play as the Japanese on a giga worldmap. I edited the terrain at the starting location to make it more OCC-friendly and like in OCC #20 I replaced the second settler with an engineer. In order to allow you to explore the world and meet other civs before you land on AC I gave 4 transports with a spy loaded on each transport.

You start with knowledge of Bronze Working, Ceremonial Burial and Horseback Riding. The other civs in the game are the Romans, French, Spanish, Americans, Carthaginians and Indians.

I have never played OCC on a gigamap before, so I hope it will be fun. Download here.

[Julius Brenzaida]

quote: Originally posted by Paul on 01-05-2001 02:59 PM This time I thought it might be fun to play on a gigamap. This does mean that you'll need MGE to play. I don't know if gigamaps work on the Mac, maybe someone with a Mac can try it and tell us. here.

I've heard that they work on the Mac too.
By the way, I've just finished a 143x229 real world map. I've tried OCC as the Japanese thrice and thrice I've beaten. For me, it's the real test. I've already won several times on random gigamaps. The only difficulty is to find other nations. Usually other civs don't come to bother you. But on the world map, I've had some real neighborhood problems with the chinese and the germans seemed to be able to build wonders like in Civ1, once every 2 or 3 turns, that is.
But I'm no champion of OCC.


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Oh Man, when will you understand that your greatness lies in your failure - Goethe

[Smash]

I had no problems running gigamaps on either MGE or 2.42 MAC versions.

This one works fine on MGE.

[Smash]

Talk about a major hut fest!I got almost all my first 20+ techs from huts.Including Monarchy,Trade,Construction,Astronomy,Gravity.Even Theology popped out before I found Invention.Tons of gold also.

I did manage some alliances and gifts but it really served no purpose as things were happening very quickly.

I feel as though I should have been able to arrive earlier.

deity-MGE

Arrival-1096ad

Collosus-2450bc
Cope’s-1300bc
Shake’s-1200bc
Sir Isaac-625bc
Darwin’s-150bc
Apollo-660ad

Monarchy-3450bc
Republic-1850bc
Democracy-725bc

Trade-3250bc
Construction-3100bc
Sanitation-1050bc
Refrigeration-350bc
Automobile-40ad
Computers-360ad
Space Flight-640ad

1-1400bc
2-1250bc
3-1150bc

12-1400bc
21-800bc


4000-hut-horseman-Tokyo established
3900-hut>Alphabet -hut>Laws
3800-warrior-hut>Map Making-hut>50gold-hut>25 gold-
3750-hut-horseman-supported..hmmm
3700-hut>50 gold
3650-hut>Masonry-hut>Math
3600-hut>barb horse>bribed-41.(supported)
3550-hut>Warrior Code-hut>Monarchy -hut>barb horse>bribed-41(supported)
3500-revolt-hut>Mysticism
3450-govt-Monarchy-size 2-hut>horseman-non
3400-hut>50 gold-hut>chariot(supported)
3350-disband 2 horses after returning home-hut>archer(supported)-hut>Currency-
3250-hut>barb horse-hut>Trade
3200-hut>barb horse-hut>Astronomy-contact Americans-gift 3 techs-peace-share maps-hut>50gold
3150-hut>barb horse>bribed-41(non)
3100-hut>50 gold-hut>Construction
3050-hut>Iron Working
3000-size 3-hut>barb horse-terminated-hut>Feudalism-hut>Polytheism
2950-hut>Pottery-hut>chariot(non)
2900-hut>Seafaring-hut>legion(non)
2850-hut>horseman(non)
2800-hut>Navigation-hut>50 gold
2750-hut>The Wheel-hut>Writing
2700-hut>barb horse
2650-contact Indians gift 4 techs-alliance-share maps-hut>Bridge Building-embassy with Indians-hut>barb horse-hut>horseman(non)
2600-size 4-supported chariot KIA-hut>elephant(non)
2550-hut>elephant(non)-hut>barb horse-hut>25 gold-hut>Chivalry-hut>Engineering
2500-hut>knight(non)-disband 1 transport
2450-Collosus-hut>50 gold-hut>legion(supported)
2400-disband warrior-hut>knight(non)-hut>knight(non)
2350-we love the king-hut>barb horse-hut>25 gold
2300-library-barb leader 150-hut>50-hut>25-Indians gift 25
2250-hut>barb horse>bribed-41(non)-hut>barb horse terminated-
2200-silver caravan-hut>Literacy-hut>Philosophy-hut>knight(non)
2150-hut>legion(non)-hut>legion(non)
2100-The Republic-dye caravan-hut>legion(non)
2050-hut>University-hut>barb horse terminated-hut>knight(non)
2000-wool caravan-hut>Monotheism-hut barb horse terminated-hut>Banking-hut>Economics-hut>crusader(supported)disband on the spot
1950-hut>barb horse-hut>Theology-disband 1 transport
1900-temple-revolt-hut>barb horse-hut>50 gold-hut>legion(non)
1850-govt-Republic-hut>Physics-Hut>Gravity-Indians gift 50-disband 1 transport
1800-”we love” 4-market-hut>barb horse-hut>legion(non)-hut>barb horse terminated-hut>barb horse
1750-hut>Atomic Theory-this is getting out of hand-hut>legion(non)
1700-hut<50
1650-disband archer-hut>Invention-finally-hut>50-hut>25
1600-colliseum-hut>25-hut>50-hut>25-disband 1 spy
1550-aquaduct-hut>50-hut>50
1500-hut>50-hut>crusader(non)-hut>50-hut>legion(non)
1450-hut>50-hut>legion(non)-hut>crusader(non)-hut>25-hut>50-hut>25-hut>legion(non)
1400-end “we love” 12-gems caravan-silver arrives in Washington(demanded)690-hut>3 barbs
1350-hut>25-hut>25-hut>50
1300-Medicine-Cope’s-hut>crusader(non)-hut>50-hut>50-hut>50-sell colliseum
1250-dye arrives in Washington-272-hut>50-hut>100-hut>50-sell temple
1200-Shake’s-hut>25
1150-contact Romans-gift techs-peace share maps-wool to Washington 258-hut>50
1100-contact French gift techs peace-establish embassy-hut>25-hut>100
1050-Sanitation-”we love” 12-hut>50
1000-sewer system-hut>3 barbs-hut>barb horse
975-hut>3 barbs
950-bank-hut>25-hut>100-contact Spain-gift techs-peace-share maps-hut>3 barbs-hut>50-hut>50
925-hut>50-hut>25
900-French sneak attack-stock exchange-hut>50-sabotage barracks in Paris-spy returned
875-hut>25-hut>barb horse terminated-hut>50-hut>50-bribe barb chariot 61
850-Magnetism-harbor-hut>50-hut>50
825-hut>25
800-end “we love” 21-hut>25-Indians gift 100
775-bribe barb chariot 61-hut>legion(non)-hut>25-hut>50
750-hut>50
725-Democracy-instant revolution-hut>legion(non)-hut>2 barbs bribed@41-hut>barb horse terminated-hut>25
700-”we love” 21-hut>barb horse terminated-hut>legion(non)
675-hut>50-
650-hut>3 barbs-hut>legion(non)-hut>25
625-Sir Isaac’s-hut>50-hut>3 barbs-hut>legion(non)-hut>3 barbs
600-Gunpowder-end “we love” 25
575-build university-hut>3 barbs-hut>50-hut>musket(non)
550-Chemistry-hut>3 barbs-hut>100
525-gems caravan
500-Explosives
475-coal caravan-Cancel alliance with Indians to get many,many units sent home.
450-Metallurgy
400-Electricity
375-engineer
350-Refrigeration-engineer-alliance with Rome
300-Steam Engine-Romans cancel alliance-hut>50
275-supermarket
250-Railroad-hut>50
200-”we love” 23
175-Industrialization
150-Darwin’s>The Corporation>Steel-hut>50
125-gold freight
100-Refining
75-end “we love” 28-sell sewer-hut>100
50-hut>50-sell aquaduct
25-Combustion
---------------------------------
1AD-disband 1 engineer
40-Automobile-hut>50
60-superhighways
80-Leadership
100-factory-bribe barb musket 61
120-Conscription-bribe barb cannon 82-coal to Bombay 700
140-power plant-hut>50
160-Tactics180-gems to Bombay 700
180-hut>50
200-Machine Tools-bribe barb musket 61
220-hut>25-bribe barb musket 61
240-Electronics-bribe barb cannon 82
280-Miniaturization
300-offshore platform
320-Mass Production
360-Computers
380-research lab
400-Mobile Warfare
440-Robotics
460-manufacturing plant-contact Carths-peace-share maps
480-Flight
520-Radio-fighter(barb frigate trying to unload)
560-Advanced Flight
600-Rocketry
620-hut>25
640-Space Flight
660-Apollo
720-Plastics-bribe barb artillery 102-bribe Indian caravan 235
780-Nuclear Fission
800-hut>50
840-Nuclear Power
880-hut>3 barbs
900-The Laser
920-coal to Panormus 473
940-bribe barb artillery 102-hut>musket(non)
1000-hut>25
1020-Fusion Power-sell research lab-hut>100-hut>rifleman(non)
1060-15-1-1-1-1-1-LAUNCH
1096-ARRIVAL

[Paul]

You seem to have started a bit faster, but I overtook you later. I got 26 advances from huts including atronomy and medicine; invention in 2150 BC ended the run.

I haven't completely finished yet; I just got flight in 320 AD, so I'm 8 turns ahead of you. I wouldn't be surprised if Ribannah got space flight BC in this game.

[Paul]

AC: 936

Monarchy: -2450
Republic: -1850
Democracy: -925

Colossus: -2450
Copernicus: -925
Shakespeare: -1150
Newton: -750
Magellan: -575
Darwin: -150
Apollo: 500

Trade routes: -1400, -1200, -1200

Size 12: -1350
Size 21: -875

Trade: -3000
Construction: -3150
Sanitation: -1350
Refrigeration: -500
Automobile: -125
Computers: 260
Space Flight: 480

4000 BC Hut: Archer
Kyoto
3900 BC Hut: Currency
3850 BC Hut: 50 gold
3800 BC Warrior
Hut: 50 gold
Hut: 25 gold
3700 BC Hut: Archer
Hut: 50 gold
Hut: 50 gold
3600 BC Hut: 25 gold
Warrior
3550 BC Hut: Polytheism
Hut: Horsemen
Hut: Warrior Code
3500 BC Hut: Masonry
3450 BC Hut: Mysticism
Hut: Elephant
3400 BC Hut: Alphabet
Hut: Elephant
3350 BC Hut: Chariot
3300 BC Hut: Barbarians
Hut: Barbarians
Hut: Elephant
3250 BC Hut: Map Making
Americans: share maps; alliance
3200 BC Hut: Archer
Hut: Iron Working
Hut: Barbarians
3150 BC Hut: Legion
Hut: Legion
Hut: Construction
Hut: Code of Laws
3100 BC Hut: Wheel
3050 BC Hut: 50 gold
Hut: Barbarians
3000 BC Hut: Trade
Hut: Mathematics
2950 BC Hut: Legion
2850 BC Hut: Engineering
Hut: Monarchy
Hut: Barbarians
2800 BC Hut: Chariot
Indians: peace; share maps
Hut: Pottery
2750 BC Hut: Elephant
2700 BC Hut: Barbarians
Hut: Barbarians
2650 BC Hut: Barbarians
Hut: Seafaring
Hut: Barbarians
2600 BC Hut: Legion
Hut: Barbarians
2550 BC Hut: Chariot
Hut: Writing
Hut: Legion
2500 BC Hut: 50 gold
Hut: 50 gold
2450 BC Colossus
Gov: Monarchy
2400 BC Hut: Barbarians
Hut: Barbarians
Hut: Literacy
2350 BC Hut: Philosophy
2300 BC Republic
Hut: Chariot
Hut: Feudalism
Hut: University
2200 BC Build Wool Caravan
Hut: Astronomy
Hut: Medicine
Hut: Navigation
2150 BC Hut: 50 gold
Hut: Invention
Hut: Legion
Hut: Legion
Hut: 50 gold
Hut: 25 gold
Hut: 50 gold
2100 BC Build Silver Caravan
Hut: 25 gold
Hut: 50 gold
2050 BC Hut: 50 gold
Hut: 50 gold
2000 BC Build Salt Caravan
Hut: 50 gold
1950 BC Hut: Barbarians
Hut: 50 gold
Hut: Barbarians
Hut: 50 gold
1900 BC Temple
Hut: Barbarians
Hut: Barbarians
Hut: Horseman
Hut: 25 gold
1850 BC Gov: Republic
Hut: 25 gold
Hut: 50 gold
Start WLTCD, size 3
1800 BC Harbor
Hut: 50 gold
Hut: Horseman
Hut: 50 gold
Hut: 25 gold
Hut: Barbarians
Hut: 100 gold
1750 BC Marketplace
Hut: Barbarians
1700 BC Library
Hut: Elephant
Hut: 50 gold
Hut: Legion
Hut: 25 gold
1650 BC Hut: 25 gold
Hut: 25 gold
Americans: gift 100 gold
Hut: 25 gold
1600 BC Colosseum
Hut: 25 gold
Hut: 50 gold
1550 BC Hut: 50 gold
Hut: 50 gold
Hut: 25 gold
1500 BC Aqueduct
Hut: 50 gold
Hut: 50 gold
Hut: Legion
Hut: 50 gold
Hut: Barbarians
1450 BC Hut: 100 gold
Carthaginians: peace; share maps
Hut: 25 gold
Hut: Elephant
1400 BC Build Coal Caravan
Wool to Washington (not demanded): 254 gold
Hut: 25 gold
Hut: Legion
Hut: Legion
Hut: 50 gold
1350 BC Sanitation
Hut: 50 gold
Hut: Legion
1300 BC Sewer System
End WLTCD, size 13
Romans: peace; share maps
Hut: 25 gold
Hut: Legion
Hut: 50 gold
Sold Colosseum
1250 BC Hut: 25 gold
Hut: 50 gold
Hut: Barbarians
1200 BC Hut: 50 gold
Hut: Legion
Salt to Washington (not demanded): 280 gold
Silver to Washington (not demanded): 280 gold
Sold Temple
Hut: Barbarians
Hut: 25 gold
Hut: Barbarians
1150 BC Shakespeare's Theatre
Banking
Start WLTCD, size 13
Hut: 100 gold
French: peace; share maps
Hut: 100 gold
1100 BC Hut: 50 gold
Hut: Chariot
1050 BC University
Hut: 25 gold
Hut: 50 gold
Hut: Legion
Hut: Barbarians
975 BC Hut: Barbarians
Hut: 50 gold
Hut: 50 gold
Hut: 25 gold
Spanish: peace; share maps
Hut: 100 gold
Americans: gift 50 gold
Carthaginians: alliance; gift 75 gold
Indians: alliance
950 BC Hut: 100 gold
Hut: 25 gold
925 BC Copernicus' Observatory
Democracy, change gov
Hut: Barbarians
Hut: 50 gold
Hut: 50 gold
Hut: 25 gold
900 BC Hut: Elephant
Hut: Legion
Hut: Barbarians
875 BC Bank
Hut: 100 gold
Hut: 25 gold
Hut: Elephant
850 BC Bridge Building
Hut: Barbarians
Americans: gift 75 gold
825 BC Hut: Elephant
800 BC Theory of Gravity
Hut: Barbarians
Hut: Legion
Americans: cancel alliance
Carthaginians: cancel alliance
Indians: cancel alliance
Hut: 25 gold
775 BC End WLTPD, size 25
750 BC Isaac Newton's College
Physics
Coal to Washington (not demanded): 394 gold
725 BC Magnetism
700 BC Build Gold Caravan
Hut: 50 gold
675 BC Gunpowder
650 BC Build Wool Caravan
625 BC Metallurgy
600 BC Hut: Barbarians
575 BC Magellan's Expedition
Hut: 25 gold
550 BC Electricity
Hut: Elephant
525 BC Build Gems Caravan
500 BC Refrigeration
Hut: 50 gold
Americans: trade Chemistry
475 BC Supermarket
Hut: 50 gold
450 BC Explosives
Hut: 50 gold
425 BC Engineer
400 BC Economics
350 BC Steam Engine
325 BC Hut: 50 gold
300 BC Railroad
275 BC Start WLTPD, size 24
250 BC Industrialization
225 BC Hut: 50 gold
200 BC Corporation
Wool to Madras (demanded): 715 gold
175 BC Steel
Romans: alliance
150 BC Darwin's Voyage: Refining, Combustion
Hut: 50 gold
Hut: 25 gold
125 BC Automobile
100 BC Superhighways
End WLTPD, size 29
75 BC Electronics
Hut: 50 gold
Hut: Barbarians
50 BC Spanish: 200 gold for war on French
Hut: Musketeer
25 BC Conscription
Hut: 50 gold
1 AD Hut: 50 gold
40 AD Chivalry
Gems to Rome (demanded): 1060 gold
Hut: 50 gold
Hut: 100 gold
60 AD Leadership
Hut: 50 gold
80 AD Hut: 50 gold
100 AD Tactics
Hut: Barbarians
140 AD Factory
Machine Tools
Hut: Musketeers
160 AD Sold Sewer System
Hut: 50 gold
Hut: 25 gold
180 AD Power Plant
Miniaturization
Hut: Musketeers
Sold Aqueduct
200 AD Hut: 50 gold
220 AD Offshore Platform
Mass Production
Hut: Musketeers
240 AD Build Gold Freight
Hut: Barbarians
260 AD Computers
French: peace
280 AD Research Lab
Mobile Warfare
Hut: 50 gold
Hut: 50 gold
300 AD Romans: 400 gold for war on French
Build Oil Freight
Robotics
Hut: 25 gold
Hut: Barbarians
320 AD Build Gems Freight
Flight
Hut: Barbarians
Hut: 50 gold
340 AD Hut: Barbarians
Hut: Barbarians
Hut: 50 gold
360 AD Manufacturing Plant
Radio
Hut: Musketeers
380 AD Armor
400 AD Advanced Flight
Hut: 50 gold
Hut: 50 gold
Hut: Riflemen
440 AD Rocketry
Hut: 50 gold
460 AD Hut: 50 gold
Hut: 25 gold
Hut: 100 gold
480 AD Space Flight
500 AD Apollo Program
520 AD Hut: 50 gold
Hut: Riflemen
540 AD Plastics
Hut: 25 gold
Hut: Barbarians
Hut: Riflemen
Hut: 25 gold
580 AD Hut: Barbarians
Hut: 50 gold
600 AD Atomic Theory
Oil to Washington (not demanded): 398 gold
Gold to Washington (not demanded): 398 gold
Gems to Washington (not demanded): 398 gold
Hut: Barbarians
Hut: 50 gold
Hut: 50 gold
620 AD Nuclear Fission
Hut: 100 gold
640 AD Hut: 25 gold
Hut: 25 gold
660 AD Hut: 25 gold
Hut: Musketeer
680 AD Nuclear Power
Hut: Barbarians
Hut: 25 gold
700 AD Hut: Musketeer
720 AD Hut: 50 gold
Hut; Barbarians
740 AD Laser
Hut: 50 gold
Hut: 25 gold
780 AD Hut: Barbarians
Hut: 25 gold
800 AD Romans: cancel alliance
Superconductor
860 AD Fusion Power
900 AD Lanuch
936 AD Arrival at AC

[Ribannah]

quote: Originally posted by Paul on 01-06-2001 05:00 PM I wouldn't be surprised if Ribannah got space flight BC in this game.

I'll give it a try, Paul
Will be back soon, playing Might and Magic VI at the moment. Happy new Millennium everybody!
(How many fortnights is that?)


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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[solo]

All those huts sure help! Here is the log of my game. I will post some more notes later, as I have discovered some interesting things about the game since playing OCC.

OCC #22, MGE, deity, arrival date: 856 AD

4000 BC hut: archer
3950 hut: chariot
3900 hut: archer
3850 3 huts: horseman, archer, alphabet
3800 hut: 50 g
3750 6 huts: horseman, chariot, polytheism, 125 g, Kyoto founded
3700 2 huts: map making, 25 g
3650 3 huts: archer, barbarians, masonry
3600 3 huts: 100 g, math
3550 3 huts: mysticism, pottery, 50 g
3500 temple, hut: 50 g
3400 2 huts: code of laws, barbarians
3350 3 huts: monarchy, warrior code, seafaring
3300 3 huts: elephant, wheel, currency; revolution
3250 granary, govt. to Monarchy, 4 huts: trade, writing, astronomy, construction
3200 2 huts: barbarians, archer
3150 8 (my record for 1 turn!) huts: engineering, navigation, feudalism, chivalry, 3 barbarians, 25 g
3100 silver, 3 huts: iron working, literacy, 25 g
3050 6 huts: bridge building, philosophy, university, legion, 100 g
3000 diplomat, 4 huts: republic, invention, 2 barbarians, barbarian leader, 150 gold
2950 3 huts: 125 g
2900 salt, 4 huts: 125 g, barbarians; revolution
2850 Republic, 3 huts: 125 g
2800 3 huts: 25 g, barbarians, knight
2750 4 huts: 100 g, knight; start WLTCD at 4
2700 colosseum, 4 huts: barbarians, 175 g
2650 4 huts: 150 g, knight
2600 library, 3 huts: 50 g, legion, barbarians
2550 4 huts: 125 g, knight
2500 university, 3 huts: 75 g, legion
2450 aqueduct, 3 huts: barbarians, 75 g,
Indians: alliance, share maps, embassy, give tech
2400 5 huts: 250 g
2350 food, 5 huts: 150 g, knight, legion
2300 WLTCD stops at 12, 4 huts: legion, knights(2), 50 g
2250 food, 5 huts: 150 g, barbarians
2200 3 huts: barbarians, 75 g
2150 food, 4 huts: 150 g
2100 Colossus, 7 huts: knight, 225 g, barbarians
2050 4 huts: 200 g
2000 food, 2 huts: knight, barbarians
1950 medicine, 5 huts: legion, 100 g, knight, barbarians
1900 food, 5 huts: 225 g, barbarians
1850 Copernicus, 7 huts: knights(3), 125 g, barbarians
1800 5 huts: 125 g, barbarians, knight
1750 food, 7 huts: 275 g, legion, barbarians
1700 4 huts: 125 g, barbarians
1650 food, sanitation, 4 huts: 100 gold, legion, barbs,
French: peace, share maps, give tech, embassy
Indians: give tech, 150 gold gift
1600 hut: 50 gold
1550 food, hut: legion
1500 Romans: peace, share maps, embassy, give tech, Spanish: ditto
1450 food, 3 huts: barbarians, legion, 25 g
1400 theory of gravity, 2 huts: 50 g, barbarians,
start WLTCD at 12
1350 sewer system, 5 huts: 225 g, knight
1300 Shakespeare’s Theater, 4 huts: 100 g, legion
Carthagians: peace, share maps, embassy, give tech
1250 3 huts: legion, barbarians, 100 g
Americans: peace, embassy, give tech (no maps!)
1200 harbor, 4 huts: 125g, barbarians, legion
1150 gems, physics, 3 huts: 50 g, barbarians(2)
1100 6 huts: 150 g, knight, barbarians
1050 food, 4 huts: barbarians, 100g
1000 food, 4 huts: 200 g, salt(d) to Madrid 572 gold
975 food, steam engine, 2 huts: legion, 50 g
950 food, WLTCD stops at 21, 2 huts: 100g, silver(d) to Utica, 589 gold
925 Isaac Newton’s College, railroad,
5 huts: 150 g, barbarians, Romans: give tech
900 wool, 2 huts: 100 g
875 coal, magnetism, 4 huts: 125 g, barbarians
850 galleon
825 atomic theory, 3 huts: legion, 75 g
800 city walls, 3 huts: 75 g, legion
Americans: trade for banking, give tech
French: give tech
775 6 huts: knight, legion, 200 g
750 food, democracy, revolution, govt. to Democracy, 3 huts: legion, 25 g, knight
725 hut: barbarians
700 diplomat, 5 huts: 200 g, legion
675 economics, 2 huts: legion, 25 g
650 bank, 3 huts: 75 g, legion
625 industrialization, 2 huts: 100 g
600 7 huts: 150 g, barbarians(2), knight
575 stock exchange, corporation, 2 huts: 150 g
550 food, 4 huts: 150 g
525 food, gunpowder
500 Magellan’s Expedition, 6 huts: 275 g, barbarians
475 metallurgy, 4 huts: barbarians, 100 g
450 gold freight, hut: musketeer, Indians: give tech
425 electricity, hut: musketeer
400 2 huts: musketeer, barbarians
375 steel, hut: barbarians
350 oil
325 refrigeration, 3 huts: 100 g, barbarians(2)
300 3 huts: barbarians, 100 g
275 chemistry
250 food, 2 huts: barbarians, 25 g
225 explosives, hut: 25 g
200 food, hut: barbarians
175 refining
150 food, 3 huts: knight, 50 gold
125 combustion, coal(d) to Utica, 918 gold, 2 huts: barbarians: 50 g
100 food, automobile, hut: 50 g, gems(d) to Rome, 970 gold
75 supermarket, mass production, 2 huts: 75 g
50 mass transit, 3 huts: knight, barbarians, 50 g
25 superhighways, electronics, hut: 50 g
1 AD start WLTPD, 6 huts: barbarians(2),175 g, musketeer
20 food, nuclear fission, wool(d) to Malaca, 1100 gold
40 gems, nuclear power, hut: 50 g
60 2 huts: knights(2)
80 food, leadership, 2 huts: dragoon, 25 g, WLTPD stops at 28
100 food
120 food, conscription, hut: 25 g, gold(d) to Madrid, 1198 gold
140 food, tactics, hut: 25 g
160 food, 2 huts: 25 g, rifleman
180 food, machine tools, 3 huts: 75 g, musketeer
200 factory, 3 huts: 150 g
220 nuclear plant, miniaturization, hut: barbarians
240 offshore platform, hut: 50 g
260 engineer, computers, hut: 25 g
280 research lab, 3 huts: 75 g
300 food, laser, 2 huts: 150 g
320 food, hut: musketeer
340 food, flight, gems(d) to Rome, 1408 gold, 2 huts: 75 g, give everyone all my tech
360 food, radio, 2 huts: 100g, salt to Utica, 674 gold
380 gems, advanced flight, hut: 50 g
400 Darwin’s Voyage, rocketry, space flight
420 Apollo Program
440 begin structurals, plastics, hut: 50 g
480 superconductor, 3 huts: 100g
520 fusion power
560 mobile warfare, 3 huts: 125 g
660 gems(d) to Seville, 1344 gold
700 robotics
720 15 structurals done, starting components
760 2 components done, starting modules, last hut (South Pole): 25 g
820 3 modules done, 15-1-1-1-1-1, launch
821 wool
822 Adam Smith’s Trading Company
823 Hoover Dam, Americans: trade for monotheism
824 gold
825 hides
826 Oracle
827 hides
828 hides
829 Hanging Gardens, oil to Carthage, 666 gold
830 Lighthouse, recycling
831 hides
832 hides
833 Marco Polo’s Embassy, wool(d) to Rheims, 1504 gold
834 Great Library, theology
835 J. S. Bach’s Cathedral
836 Statue of Liberty
837 Great Wall, hides to Madrid, 560 gold
838 Sun Tzu’s War Academy
839 King Richard’s Crusade, hides to Paris, 688 gold
840 Eiffel Tower, genetic engineering
Carthagians: alliance, 100 gold gift,
gold(d) to Neapolis, 1612 gold
841 Michaelangelo’s Chapel, hides to Washington, 378 g
842 hides
843 hides to Paris, 688 gold
844 United Nations
845 armor
846 armor
847 gold
848 hides
849 hides
850 hides, hides to Madrid, 594 gold
851 Cure for Cancer
852 gold
853 hides
854 hides
855 Manhattan Project
856 arrival on Alpha Centauri

Final score: 626, 81%


[This message has been edited by solo (edited January 12, 2001).]

[solo]

Below are some discoveries I made while playing OCC #21 and OCC #22:

1) This may be common knowledge, but at least it was a personal discovery for me, because I have never read about it. The amount of the bump you get in research, when delivering a caravan or freight, is exactly equal to the amount of gold you receive as your trade bonus. For example, a cargo yielding say, 204 gold, bumps your research by 204 beakers. Any excess is lost, so it is best to delay delivery until the next advance, if you are already close to a discovery. Early in the game, when discoveries cost less than beakers yielded by the bump, do not set science to zero, and expect to get the advance next turn just from the bump. In my experience, doing this turns off science completely. You need at least 10% science. Knowing the exact amount of the science boost from a trade is very useful. Subtract that from total beakers needed for the next advance, and adjust your science rate and Einsteins accordingly.

2) I also discovered that there is a direct relationship between the number of beakers needed for your next advance and the amount of gold you will receive when delivering a caravan or freight. So far, all the evidence (limited to the 2 scenarios above), I have collected supports one tentative conclusion: If your city has only produced and delivered commodities that are in demand, you can predict your trade bonus to be exactly two-thirds of the beaker requirement for your next advance. One turn I noticed that I needed 900 beakers, and that I got 600 gold for a demanded cargo. Nice round numbers, I thought. A few turns later, I needed 999 beakers, and I got 666 gold. Hmm!
This got me checking things a little more closely, and sure enough, every turn I delivered a demanded cargo the 2/3 rule seemed to be in effect. Imagine only needing 1/3 of the science than usual for your next advance! 3 turn discoveries become 1 turn discoveries! This rule was ironclad for both #21 and #22, and in #22, the city delivered to or the commodity did not matter, just so long as it was in demand. This relationship was spoiled after the delivery of an undemanded cargo. After that event the payoff was only exactly predictable in one way: it was certain to be a lot less.

3) The two discoveries above lead to two more useful things to know. Very early in the game, before the beaker cost exceeds 300, delivery of demanded commodities always yields at least 200 gold. A delivery made before the beaker cost reaches 200 can lead to 1 turn advances, which is something I certainly welcome during that stage of a game!

There is another useful technique you can use later in the game, if you have a cargo ready to deliver. Deliver before giving away any tech to the AI, since you get more gold and a higher science boost when the beaker requirement is high. Then give away tech to lower your beaker requirement. For example, the turn I discovered flight in OCC #22, I noticed I needed 2112 beakers for the next advance. I delivered gems(d) to Rome and got 1408 gold (and a 1408 beaker boost in research). Then I gave away all my tech to the AI and checked my beaker requirement, which had shrunk to 1536! It was a struggle, but I managed to get my science rate low enough for the additional 128 beakers needed to discover radio!



------------------
It is more pleasant to live in the corner of a housetop,
than in a wide house with a brawling woman.

[Lars-E]

Very interesting, Solo. There are some commodities that don't give a demand bonus. These are all commodities except uranium, oil, silk, spice, gems, gold, silver, cloth, and wine. So are you saying, that it is useful delivering commodities that are in demand even if they don't give a demand bonus?

[Ribannah]

Solo, the 2/3 rule is the upper limit set for the bonus from a demanded commodity delivery. In OCC you will hit the upper limit rather frequently. Had you delivered demanded goods to a smaller & nearer-by city, and/or would you have been much further in the tech tree, you would most likely have received less than the upper limit.

------------------
If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[solo]

Thanks Lars-E and Ribannah, for your replies. You and many of the others here seem to know just about everything about the game! In response to your comments:

Lars-E, in OCC #21, I consistently received the 2/3 bonus for hides. I also got it once that game for gold. After delivering an undemanded cargo, I never got it again. In OCC #22, I got the 2/3 bonus for salt, silver, coal, gems, wool and gold (all demanded), but after delivering undemanded salt, never got it again. Not much info to work from, but my game results seem to contradict your list. My hunch is that the 2/3 bonus is available for any commodity until delivery of an undemanded one spoils it.

Ribannah, my results only seem to contradict what you say in one way. In OCC #22, I delivered gems(d) to Rome after discovering flight, and received the 2/3 bonus. Did you mean even further along the research path? On the next turn in that game, I delivered undemanded salt (first undemanded delivery), and never saw the 2/3 bonus again that game. One question: Why is the upper limit hit frequently in OCC? In your experience, what triggers it?


------------------
It is more pleasant to live in the corner of a housetop,
than in a wide house with a brawling woman.

[Paul]

The bonus depends on the number of trade arrows in the home and destination city of the caravan (more arrows means larger bonus), the distance between the two cities (bigger distance means bigger bonus), freight or caravan (freight gives double bonus), discovering certain advances (I believe navigation and invention, but I'm not sure of that and there may be others; these lower the bonus), whether the commodity is demanded (the demand bonus depends on the commodity; uranium has the highest bonus) and some other stuff that I can't think of right now. The bonus is capped at 2/3 the cost for your current research.

The reason why you often get the maximum bonus in OCC is because OCC cities are designed to maximize trade arrows by building near trade specials and building the Colossus and later superhighways to increase trade arrows in your city. The reason why your later trade routes gave lower bonuses may be because you delivered to smaller cities or to cities closer to your own city or because you delivered commodities with lower demand bonuses.

[Lars-E]

Solo, I don't think my list contradict your results. You can hit the 2/3 limit without any demand bonus at all. I stole "my list" from Sid Meier's Official Strategy Guide (1995), p. 300. Anyways your note on meeting demand is taken, I have not consistently done that in the past, but will surely start to now (wheter the commodity yields a demand bonus or not).

[Scouse Gits]

Lars-E: So they published the Strategy Guide in 1995 and released CIV 2 in 1996 - didn't realise that!
----------
SG(2)

[Lars-E]

Good point SG. The correct year for the Strategy Guide is 1996.

[solo]

Lars-E, Ahh, now I see what you mean by the term demand bonus, i.e. certain commodities always pay better than others, all other conditions being the same. I was using the word bonus in the sense that a 2/3 payoff was a nice bonus, since it is the biggest I‘ve experienced! I was only using the term demand to refer to a city’s preferences at the moment a cargo is delivered. Where I said 2/3 bonus in the notes above, it would have been clearer to say 2/3 payoff.

[Ribannah]

OCC#22
Deity
MGE

Had I known one could build spaceparts before 1 AD in a scenario, we could have landed a couple of turns earlier even, but this was pretty cool and I maxed out the score. Only the Pyramids eluded us, and every hut on the globe was tipped. We could have done with a few more units in the beginning, but Invention staying away for some time compensated for that .
With the tribes given and the Earth map, it was easy enough to make contact and explore. But I don't think giga maps like this are good for comparison games. Too much hard work, we had a zillion Osaka's to undo!!

================================================== ==============
AC: 416

Monarchy: -3450
Republic: -3250
Democracy: -2050

Colossus: -2450
Copernicus: -2200
Shakespeare: -2000
Newton: -1600
Magellan: -1250
Leonardo: -1000
Darwin: -825
Apollo: -75

Trade routes: -2450, -2100, -1950

Size 12: -1750
Size 21: -1300 (S27 in -1000)
Size 31: -575

Trade: -3550
Construction: -3700
Sanitation: -2850
Refrigeration: -1250

Automobile: -800
Computers: -450
Space Flight: -100
============================================

-4000 N-Horsemen(h), Foresthouse founded by Aditu
-3950 50, Barb Horsemen, bribed->N
-3850 50
-3800 50
-3750 Currency, 60% Taxes, Mysticism, 50, Masonry, Alphabet
-3700 Marketplace, Construction, 25, North Wine mined
-3650 N-Archers, 50, Map Making
-3600 Code of Laws, Monarchy
-3550 100, Trade, Mathematics, Writing
-3500 Chariot, 50, Literacy, Revolution
-3450 S2, MONARCHY, 70% Taxes, Barb Horsemen, bribed->N, 50, Astronomy
-3400 Silver, Philosophy, Medicine, N-Chariot, 25
-3350 The Republic (<-Phi), Science 70%, N-Archers, Polytheism , Pottery,
----- Americans, Peace, 18 techs->A, Ally ,
-3300 Library, Embassy(A), N-Elephant, University, 25, Revolution
-3250 REPUBLIC, 50, Theory of Gravity, Seafaring
-3200 Harbor, Barb Horsemen, Monotheism , 50, Banking, Navigation
-3150 Economics
-3100 Temple, South Wine mined, N-Crusaders, 50, Chemistry
-3050 Barb Horsemen, 50
-3000 S3, We Love , Physics, 50, Warrior Code
-2950 S4, The Wheel, Atomic Theory , 50, Engineering , Feudalism, 16 techs->A
-2900 Copper, S5, 50, Chivalry
-2850 S6, Barb Horsemen, French, 31 techs->F, Peace, Maps, no Ally ,
----- Sanitation, N-Crusaders, Indians, Peace, 34 techs->I, Maps, no Ally
-2800 Coal, S7, N-Crusaders, 50, 25, Theology
-2750 We Love ends , 50
-2700 Food, Spanish, Peace, 34 techs->S, Maps, no Ally , Embassy(S),
----- N-Crusaders, Barb Horsemen - killed
-2650 Embassy(I), N-Crusaders, 50, Barb Horsemen
-2600 Food, Invention , 50, 25, 50, 50, 50
-2550 Carthagians, Peace, 33 techs->C, Maps, no Ally , Embassy(C),
----- 50, 100, 50, 4 techs->A, Maps
-2500 Gems, 50, N-Archers, 25, 50,
----- Romans, Embassy(R), Peace, 30 techs->R, Maps, no Ally
-2450 COLOSSUS, Silver to Washington (d,445),
----- N-Archers, N-Archers, 50, 50, 50, 25, Barb Horsemen, Barb Leader(150), 2 techs->F,I
-2400 Iron Working, 50, 50, 50, 25, 50, 25, 50
-2350 University, 50, 50, 50, di N-Archers
-2300 Wool, 50, 50, 25, 50, N-Legion, 50, 50, 50, 2 techs->S, di N-Archers
-2250 Bank, N-Crusaders, N-Legion, 50, di N-Horsemen, Barb Horsemen
-2200 COPERNICUS' OBSERVATORY, N-Legion, Barb Horsemen, N-Legion, 50
-2150 25, N-Crusaders, 1 tech->C
-2100 Food, Copper to Washington (d,364), Barb Leader(150),
----- 50, Barb Horsemen - bribed->N, 100, 50, di N-Archers, 1 tech->R
-2050 Food, Democracy, DEMOCRACY, 50, 50, N-Crusaders, 50, 50, 2 techs->F,I
-2000 SHAKESPEARE'S THEATRE, We Love , 100, 50, 25, 50, 2 techs->A
-1950 S8, N-Crusaders, Coal to Washington (198)
-1900 Aqueduct, S9, 50, 50, 100, 50, 50, 25, 50, di N-Legion, 1 tech->S
-1850 Food, Bridge Building, S10, Barb Horsemen, 50, 50, 25, di N-Crusaders
-1800 Food, S11, N-Crusaders, N-Legion, N-Crusaders, 50, 50
-1750 S12, [i]N-Crusaders, 50, 100[/b], 1 tech->A, 2 techs->C
-1700 Sewer System, S13, 50, 50, 50, 50, 100, di N-Legion, 2 techs->R
-1650 Gold, Magnetism, S14, 50, 25, N-Crusaders, 25(h), 50(h), 50(h),
----- Gems to Washington (292), 2 techs->F,I
-1600 ISAAC NEWTON'S COLLEGE, S15, N-Crusaders, 50, 50, di N-Archers
-1550 Stock Exchange, Gunpowder, S16, 50, Barb Horsemen
-1500 S17, 25, 50, 25, N-Crusaders, 50, 50, 50,
----- Wool to New York (298), di Chariot, 3 techs->S, Maps
-1450 Gems, Metallurgy, S18, 3 techs->A,C,R, Maps, 2 techs->F,I,
----- N-Crusaders, 100, 25, 25, Barb Knights - killed
-1400 S19, 50, 100, 50, 50, 100, 25, 25, N-Crusaders
-1350 Salt, Electricity, S20, Barb Elephant, di N-Legion
-1300 Food, S21, 50, 100, N-Musketeers, 100, 50, N-Musketeers
-1250 MAGELLAN'S EXPEDITION, Refrigeration, S22, Barb Elephant,
----- 50, N-Crusaders, 100, 50, 50, N-Crusaders, di N-Crusaders
-1200 Supermarket, S23, 25, 50, 100, 50, 50, Barb Elephant, di N-crusaders
-1150 Food, Steam Engine, S24, 3 techs->R,F,A,C,I, 4 techs->S, Maps, 100, 50, di N-Crusaders
-1100 Food, S25, 50, N-Musketeers, 25, 100, N-Crusaders, 50, 50, 50, di N-Crusaders
-1050 Food, Railroad, S26, 50, 50, 50, 50
-1000 LEONARDO'S WORKSHOP, S27, Barb Elephant, 50, 50, 50, sold Temple, di N-Elephant
-975 Settlers, Industrialization, S26, We Love ends , di N-Knights
----- 50, 50, 50, 50, 3 Barb Knights - 1 killed, 50, N-Crusaders, Barb Archers
-950 Factory, Barb Elephant, 50, 50, di N-Knights
-925 Food, Explosives, 50, 50, N-Crusaders, 50, 50, Gold to Madrid (d,849), di N-Crusaders
-900 Food, The Corporation, 25, Barbs - none appears, 50, 100,
----- 4 techs->R,F,S,A,C,I, Maps, Barb Elephant
-875 Barb Elephant
-850 Refining, 50, 50, 50, N-Musketeers, 50, di N-Crusaders, "Romans capture Lyons"
-825 DARWIN'S VOYAGE -> Steel, Combustion, 50, 50, 50
-800 Automobile, 50, Barb Knights - bribed->N, 4 techs->R,A,C,I, Maps, Salt to Madrid (660)
-775 Superhighways, Electronics, 50, 50, 25, 50, di N-Musketeers, Barb Elephant
-750 HOOVER DAM, 50, "Romans capture Orleans"
-725 Mass Production, Gems to Rome (d,970), 50, 25, 2 techs->R, 6 techs->F,S
-700 Leadership, We Love , 50, 50, 3 techs->C,I, di N-Crusaders
-675 ADAM SMITH'S TRADING CO., S27, 50, Barb Knights - bribed->N, 50, 50, di N-Musketeers
-650 Food where are the commodities? ,
----- Conscription Americans discover Conscription on the same turn , S28
----- 3 techs->A, 2 techs->R,F, Maps, 1 tech->S,C,I, 50, 100
-625 S29, 25, Barbs - none appears
-600 Tactics, S30, 50, 25, 50, di Engineers
-575 S31, sold Sewer System, 50, 50
-550 We Love ends , sold Aqueduct, 50, 3 techs->S, 2 techs->R,F,S,C,I
-525 25, N-Riflemen, 25, 25
-500 Miniaturization, 25, 50, 50, 1 tech->all
-475 50, 50, N-Riflemen
-450 Computers, 25, 1 tech->all
-425 SETI PROGRAM, Nuclear Fission, 25, 50, 50, N-Musketeers, N-Riflemen, 1 tech->all, di N-Crusaders
-400 Offshore Platform, Nuclear Power, 50, 50, 50, 1 tech->all
-375 Gems, Mobile Warfare, 100, 1 tech->all
-350 Hides, Robotics, 25, 25, 50, 1 tech->all
-325 Hides, Recycling, 50, 1 tech->all
-300 Hides, The Laser, 50, 100, 1 tech->all, Grassland/r into Hills/r
-275 Hides, Flight, 50, Riflemen, 50, 1 tech->all, Romans: PYRAMIDS
-250 Hides, 50 -- Delhi supplies Uranium!
-225 Hides, Radio, 50, 25, 50, 1 tech->all
-200 Hides, 50, 25
-175 Hides, Advanced Flight, 50,50, 1 tech->all
-150 Hides
-125 Hides, Rocketry, 50, 25, 50, 50, Gems to Rome (d,1248), 1 tech->all
-100 Hides, Space Flight, 1 tech->all
-75 APOLLO PROGRAM, 50, di N-Crusaders
-50 Manufacturing Plant, Environmentalism, di N-Crusaders, Hides to Paris (644), N-Riflemen, 50, 1 tech->all
-25 Solar Plant, Superconductor, Hides to Paris (644), 100, 25, 1 tech->all
1 S#01, Superconductor, Hides to Paris (644), traded for Genetic Engineering(R) , 2 techs->F,A, 1 tech->S,C,I
20 S#02, Fusion Power, Hides to Paris (644), 50, 25, 1 tech->all
40 S#03, Communism, Hides to Paris (644), 50, 2 techs->S,C,I, 1 tech->R,F,A
60 S#04, Guerilla Warfare, Hides to Paris (644), 50, 1 tech->all
80 S#05, Labor Union, Hides to Paris (644), 50, 1 tech->all
100 S#06, Amphibious Warfare, Hides to Orleans (682), 50, 25, 1 tech-> all
120 S#07, F#01, Hides to Orleans (682), N-Fanatics, 2 Barb Partisans - move away!
140 S#08, F#02, 2 Hides to Orleans (2x682), 25, 50, Indians Sneak Attack, I-Fighter kills N-Knights
160 S#09, F#03
180 S#10, 50, 50, 50, Plains into Grassland
200 S#11, F#04
220 S#12, N-Fanatics
240 S#13, F#05, N-Fanatics, Carthagians Sneak-Attack, C-Howitzer kills N-Musketeers
260 S#14, N-Fanatics
280 S#15, F#06, di N-Crusaders, N-Riflemen, 50, 50
300 C#01, 50, 100
320 C#02, F#07, 25, 50, 50, 50, di 3 N-Crusaders
340 M#01, di 2 N-Knights, N-Crusaders
360 M#02, F#08, di Riflemen, 2 Crusaders
380 M#03, LAUNCH the J.S.S. Aditu, Plains into Grassland
381 ... the usual stuff, building all remaining wonders and tipping the last huts, Romans build half a spaceship but insist on destroying Carthago ...
394 Coal to Orleans (d,1800)
411 Gems to Rome (d,1998) new record for Rib and Rome is only size 4
415 Future Tech #20
416 The J.S.S. Aditu lands on ALPHA CENTAURI

Score: 792 (102%)


------------------
If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[Paul]

It took some time , but I finally made the comparison table for this game.

[La Fayette]

I haven't tried OCC yet.
Therefore I used to skip reading these OCC fortnights' threads.
You make me realize how wrong I was


------------------
aux bords mystérieux du monde occidental