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View Poll Results: What is the name of your choice?
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Ethiopians
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40 |
85.11% |
Aksumites
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7 |
14.89% |
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September 15, 2001, 11:29
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#1
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Technical Director
Local Time: 15:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Chalmers, Sweden
Posts: 9,294
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Ethiopians/Aksumites
Next out in Name the Civ:
Ethiopians/Aksumites
This will be the last civ we face at this time as the next double named civ is the 17th.
The rankings are from Locutus POLL.
Also try to describe the Civ, and find possible Unique Units and leaders.
Earlier POLLs in the series:
Turks/Ottomans
Phoenicians/Carthaginians
Hebrew/Israelis
__________________
ACS - Technical Director
Last edited by Gramphos; September 15, 2001 at 12:05.
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September 15, 2001, 11:37
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#2
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King
Local Time: 06:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,747
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Somebody sure is going on a thread frenzy.
Seriously, I'm unaware of what you are asking. Could you explain a litte bit more. Oh, nevermind I get it now. At first I thought you wanted to take a poll on which name is better for the Civ and that's it. But I get it now. Sorry but I can't really help you here.
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However, it is difficult to believe that 2 times 2 does not equal 4; does that make it true? On the other hand, is it really so difficult simply to accept everything that one has been brought up on and that has gradually struck deep roots – what is considered truth in the circle of moreover, really comforts and elevates man? Is that more difficult than to strike new paths, fighting the habitual, experiencing the insecurity of independence and the frequent wavering of one’s feelings and even one’s conscience, proceeding often without any consolation, but ever with the eternal goal of the true, the beautiful, and the good? - F.N.
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September 15, 2001, 12:03
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#3
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Technical Director
Local Time: 15:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Chalmers, Sweden
Posts: 9,294
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Quote:
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Originally posted by TechWins
Somebody sure is going on a thread frenzy.
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I came up with this POLL idea for a while ago, but then the ranking still fluctuated so mush that I couldn't make the entire top 16. After the last Update to the list I thought that I cold make it now.
First I thought about posting one every day, but then someone would post the rest before me. Later on, when the rankings are stable down to 32 I might continue with this series. 
And I've not posted many threads in the Civ3-Civilizatons Forum before
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ACS - Technical Director
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September 15, 2001, 15:39
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#4
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Local Time: 09:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: In search of pants
Posts: 5,085
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Abyssinians.
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September 15, 2001, 16:07
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#5
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Warlord
Local Time: 13:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: of Apolyton
Posts: 264
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I would call them Ku****es. They actually conquered Egypt for some time.
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September 15, 2001, 16:08
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#6
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Warlord
Local Time: 13:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: of Apolyton
Posts: 264
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What the crap? It bleeped out K-u-s-h-i-t-e-s. I can see why.
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September 18, 2001, 17:57
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#7
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Prince
Local Time: 14:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: KULTUR-TERROR
Posts: 958
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What's up with the censoring? That's just stupid.  We'd better call them the Kumanures from now on so no one gets offended.
****
Anyway, shouldn't "Abyssinians" be an option in the poll?
__________________
CSPA
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September 19, 2001, 10:48
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#8
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King
Local Time: 07:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: ... no, a Marquis.
Posts: 2,179
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My Amharic speaking friends prefer "Ethiopian," so I'll trust their opinion has some merit. It's a bit generic, but other names apparently are too narrow for their tastes. Abyssinia is a name given to them by foreigners - isn't it Greek? Just as Sioux is an insulting name given the Dakota by some unfriendly neighbors, this one rubs the Ethiopians wrong.
__________________
The first President of the first Apolyton Democracy Game (CivII, that is)
The gift of speech is given to many,
intelligence to few.
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September 27, 2001, 12:03
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#9
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Emperor
Local Time: 15:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,512
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq
Abyssinia is a name given to them by foreigners - isn't it Greek?
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I think it comes from Habassa, the arabian word for ethiopia. I think ethiopia is the greek form, at least it was already used in the middle ages, when europeans didn't give a damn about how they called themselves.
Land of the Priest-King John could be an option though
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"The world is too small in Vorarlberg". Austrian ex-vice-chancellor Hubert Gorbach in a letter to Alistar [sic] Darling, looking for a job...
"Let me break this down for you, fresh from algebra II. A 95% chance to win 5 times means a (95*5) chance to win = 475% chance to win." Wiglaf, Court jester or hayseed, you judge.
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September 27, 2001, 17:16
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#10
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Local Time: 07:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Resident Mormon
Posts: 2,853
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Does anybody want to "flesh these guys" out (to use another thread's terminology)? I mean, I'm interested in an Ethiopian civ, but what would be their capital? Unique Unit? Civ Abilities?
I'm a history major, but I'm not well informed on any of the Ethiopian/Abyssinian/Kushite/Nubian/Aksumite civs.
__________________
The Apolytoner formerly known as Alexander01
"God has given no greater spur to victory than contempt of death." - Hannibal Barca, c. 218 B.C.
"We can legislate until doomsday but that will not make men righteous." - George Albert Smith, A.D. 1949
The Kingdom of Jerusalem: Chronicles of the Golden Cross - a Crusader Kings After Action Report
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September 28, 2001, 05:43
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#11
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Deity
Local Time: 15:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: De Hel van Enschede
Posts: 11,702
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Well, I don't know where this idea came from, but Nubians/Kushites and Aksumites/Ethiopians (never heard of Abyssians before quite frankly, not sure what that refers to...) are distinctly different civs, throwing them together is as silly as throwing the Greeks and the Romans together. The Nubians lived along the Nile, in present day Sudan, the Ehtiopians lived in the mountain regions and coastal area of present-day Ethiopia and (parts of) Somalia. They did wage war with each other all the time and occasionally occupied each other's territory but they are nontheless distinctly different.
As far as fleshing the Ethiopians out, the most obvious picks as capital would be Aksum (ancient capital) or Addis Abeba (modern capital) but there have been several other cities that served as capital in between. Personally I'd go for Aksum since it was one of the greatest cities in the world at the time. I don't have a clue about possible Unique Units but abilities should definitely be Commercial and Religious, for trade and Christianity are the most characterizing properties of the Ethiopians (it's even suspected that they've kept the Ark of the Covenant in hiding for the last 2000 or so years but they refuse to provide any evidence that can confirm or deny this).
I'm working on brief overview of the history of the top 13 civs from the Expansion Pack list (ala the Civ of the Week feature), which includes the Ethiopians, but it might be a while before I'm done with that because schoolwork is taking up an awful lot of time lately and I don't plan on spending all my free time on it...
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September 28, 2001, 06:23
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#12
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Queen
Local Time: 14:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The Netherlands, Embassy of the Iroquois Confederacy
Posts: 1,578
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Leaders: Sheba (female), Haile Selassie (male).
Golden Age: 300-500 AD
UU: Camel Rider
Cities: Aksum, Adulis, Yeha, Addis Abeba, Jimmna, Dire Dawa, Assab
Quote:
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Ethiopia is the oldest independent country in Sub Saharan Africa. The earliest evidence of Ethiopian history was in around 1000BC when the Queen of Sheba visited King Solomon.
The first recorded kingdom in Ethiopia grew around Axum during the 3rd century BC. Axum was an offshoot of the Semitic Sabeam kingdoms of southern Arabia, it became the greatest ivory market in the north east.
Ethiopia influenced the state of Meroe in Sudan. Over the next few centuries, Axum encroached more and more on Meroe until, when Christianity became the state religion in the 4th century AD, Ethiopia conquered the kingdom.
Christianity was adopted in the country by a Syrian youth named Frumentius who grew up in Axum and converted the King; the youth was later made the first Bishop in 330 AD.
Axum conquered parts of Yemen and southern Arabia and remained a great power until the death of the Prophet Mohammed.
Islam was expanding which had the effect of cutting off Ethiopia from its former Mediterranean trading partners and allies, Muslims replaced the Egyptians in the Red Sea ports. Ethiopians were allowed to consecrate their Bishops in Cairo and pilgrims were allowed to travel to Jerusalem.
Unfortunately, the Ethiopians did not have such a good relationship with the pagan tribes in the south and pressure from these tribes forced the Ethiopian emperors to adopt the life of nomadic military commanders living in makeshift cities. The priests were forced to become monks and hermits. After some time these tribes were pacified and Ethiopia recovered enough to take the provinces of Amhara, Lasta, Gojam and Damot. At a similar time the capital was moved to the south to the Amhara province.
In the 12th century Muslim expansion began. As independent trading kingdoms grew up along the coast of the Red Sea they expanded down to the Awash Valley. Their wealth was based mainly upon a trade in slaves, gold and ivory.
During the 13th and 14th centuries the Red Sea Kingdoms became Ethiopian vassal states.
During the 15th century with the expansion of the Ottoman Empire, Ethiopian fortunes were reversed. The Turks who succeeded the Mamelukes in Egypt supported the Muslim kingdoms providing both firearms and artillery; the only thing that saved the Christian empire from collapse was the Portuguese. In 1542 as a result of this, missionaries from Portugal attempted to persuade the Ethiopians to accept the Pope in Rome as the leader of the Church.
In the 18th century the empire broke down into constituent provinces, and a hundred years of constant warfare between existing war lords and their successors followed.
Ras Kassa had himself crowned as the emperor at Axum under a different name, Tewodros. This happened in 1855 when he constructed an army to reunite the provinces of Tigre, Amhara and Shoa.
Tewodros shot himself because the British, in 1867, blockaded his fortress. He was succeeded by John the 4th who took power by using British arms and was forced to accept a powerful young vassal King of Shoa as his heir, named Menelik. He built up large stores of European arms which he used to defeat the Italians in 1896 at Adowa.
John the 4th enlarged his empire at the expense of the Afars, the Somalis of Harrar and the Ogadam, and the Gallas.
In 1916, Haile Selassie, born Prince Ras Tafari Makonnen, led a revolution and became Prince Regent, heir to the throne. He was proclaimed Emperor in 1930.
Mussolini, from Italy overran the country in 1936. Haile Selassie fled to England where he lived in exile. He appealed for help, but none was offered although the western nations condemned the action. The Italians remained present in Ethiopia until 1941. Haile Selassie returned as Emperor.
After World War 2 Ethiopia's course as an independent nation continued although the province of Eritrea remained under British control until 1952 when it was federated with Ethiopia, a result of a plebiscite, organised by the UN. The Muslims were unhappy about the federation and so in 1962 the federation was dissolved and the province was annexed by Haile Selassie. The consequence of this was the outbreak of guerrilla warfare, the Muslims against the Christians.
The Eritreans regarded the annexation as tantamount to being colonised by another African nation and there were many years of inconclusive fighting which also led to mutiny and made more people aware of the revolutionary current which was sweeping through Ethiopian society. This was one of the principle factors leading to Haile Selassie's downfall.
Haile Selassie was respected as an African statesman and as a key person in the construction of the Organisation of African Unity (OAU).
Wealth went to nobility and the church. Many thousands of people died due to famine and the war in Eritrea.
In 1974 amid a wave of demonstrations, mutinies and uprisings, Haile Selassie was deposed and held under armed guard in his palace. He died several months later.
Ethiopia was then plunged into a social revolution and a group of junior army officers imposed a military dictatorship. The leader was Mengistu Haile Miriam. He threw out Americans and then instituted a number of radical reforms. He jailed the opposition; many people were massacred by vigilante groups; opposition arose everywhere; the Eritreans stepped up the guerrilla campaign and the Somalis decided that the time was right to press their claims over the Ogaden desert and invaded in force.
By 1978 the Somalis had managed to overrun Jijiga which was an important Ethiopian military base and were threatening to take areas through which the vital railway ran.
The military regime in Addis Ababa was at a point of collapse but then the Russian and Cuban troops intervened with the help from Moscow, Mengistu was able to turn the Somalis back across the border.
Mengistu's policies included creating 'people's committees' called Kebeles which controlled the everyday lives of the people in great detail. Large numbers of people were forcibly moved around the country in an attempt to counter famine. Conscription into the army eventually called on ever man from 18 to 70 years old.
Matters went from bad to worse. Mengistu found himself with a discontented population, frequent famine, war in Eritrea, Ogaden and Tigray. Finally, in 1991, when the rebel forces were about to seize Addis, Mengistu hastily left the country for Zimbabwe.
A new government was led by Meles Zenawi who set out a policy to pursue multi-party democracy. Eritrea became independent led by Isaias Afwerki, a friend of Zenawi.
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A horse! A horse! Mingapulco for a horse! Someone must give chase to Brave Sir Robin and get those missing flags ...
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September 28, 2001, 06:36
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#13
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King
Local Time: 07:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: ... no, a Marquis.
Posts: 2,179
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I made an Africa modpack and included the Ethiopians as a civ. I can post the city list (taken from old maps) and rules.txt qualities from home tonight.
Menelik is just as good a leader choice as Selassie. Take your pick!
__________________
The first President of the first Apolyton Democracy Game (CivII, that is)
The gift of speech is given to many,
intelligence to few.
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September 28, 2001, 07:38
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#14
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Deity
Local Time: 15:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: De Hel van Enschede
Posts: 11,702
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I like Camel Rider! I have some remains of a modpack as well, if we're throwing those around. Here's my list:
Ethiopians (Ethiopia)
Time: 50 AD - 600 AD, 1270 AD - 1478 AD
Leaders: Haile Selassie (Modern)
King Ezana (Classical)
Zara Yakob (Medieval)
Manelik I (Ancient?)
Sheba (female, ancient)
Capital: Aksum
Cities: Adulis
Massawa/Mitsiwa
Yeha
Gonder
Zeila
Berbera
Sawakin
Adefa/Lalibela
Roha
Adwa
Harer
Meroe
Addis Ababa
Aseb
Bali
Bahir Dar
Dire Dawa
Nazret
Awasa
Moyale
Dolo Odo
Werder
Dese
Shimbra Kure
Metema
Dogali
Asmara/Asmera
Mekele
Debre Markos
I'd love to see your list as well, Marquis, mine's still a bit short because I never finished it (I prefer a minimum of 50 cities per civ).
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September 28, 2001, 14:34
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#15
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King
Local Time: 07:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: ... no, a Marquis.
Posts: 2,179
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Sure, the more city names the better!
Trouwens, Locutus, wat betekent "Goat Stoan?" Ik neem aan dat de rest gewoon "als je van Twente bent" is... 't Spijt me, ik kan alleen maar ABN!
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The first President of the first Apolyton Democracy Game (CivII, that is)
The gift of speech is given to many,
intelligence to few.
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September 28, 2001, 17:18
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#16
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Deity
Local Time: 15:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: De Hel van Enschede
Posts: 11,702
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Grm#$%&$@bl... Achtelijke westerling!  Het motto fan de FC Twente aanhang, dat kent iedereen toch! In goed A'B'N betekent het 'Gaat staan, als je voor Twente bent' (of in heel goed A'B'N ' Ga staan, als je voor Twente bent')...
So, where's that list?
Last edited by Locutus; September 28, 2001 at 17:28.
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September 28, 2001, 18:31
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#17
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Queen
Local Time: 14:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The Netherlands, Embassy of the Iroquois Confederacy
Posts: 1,578
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 * zittuh!! *
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A horse! A horse! Mingapulco for a horse! Someone must give chase to Brave Sir Robin and get those missing flags ...
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September 28, 2001, 21:04
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#18
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Prince
Local Time: 14:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Köln, Deutschland
Posts: 500
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Who's ever heard of the Aksumites?
Now Ethiopians...I've heard of them.
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"Proletarier aller Länder, vereinigt euch!" -- Karl Marx & Friedrich Engels
"If you expect a kick in the balls and get a slap in the face, that's a victory." -- Irish proverb
Proud member of the Pink Knights of the Roundtable!
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September 28, 2001, 22:46
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#19
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King
Local Time: 07:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: ... no, a Marquis.
Posts: 2,179
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Nou, zo erg achterlijk ben ik niet!  Allicht kon ik wel zo'n klein beetje Nijmeegs toen ik daar nog woonde. Helaas is 't nu allemaal lang geleden...
Anyway, here is my short Ethiopian city list:
@ETHIOPIANS
Addis Ababa
Kaffe
Angote
Balli
Bunace
Manadelli
Olabi
Corcora
Sarane
Bugana
Fatigar
Adel
Aren
Beemaria
Nubia
Eritrea
Djibouti
Odaa
@STOP
(The last one is actually the name of an Ethiopian restaurant here.)
__________________
The first President of the first Apolyton Democracy Game (CivII, that is)
The gift of speech is given to many,
intelligence to few.
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September 29, 2001, 12:30
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#20
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Prince
Local Time: 14:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Köln, Deutschland
Posts: 500
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq
Eritrea
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Eritrea?!  Ask how many Eritreans want to be associated with Ethiopia
Eritrea broke off from Ethiopia a few years ago. Their capital is Asmara, if you want to add it to your list.
__________________
"Proletarier aller Länder, vereinigt euch!" -- Karl Marx & Friedrich Engels
"If you expect a kick in the balls and get a slap in the face, that's a victory." -- Irish proverb
Proud member of the Pink Knights of the Roundtable!
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September 30, 2001, 22:19
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#21
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King
Local Time: 07:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: ... no, a Marquis.
Posts: 2,179
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Yeah, yeah. Nubia and Djibouti are actually neighbors that would consider themselves not to be Ethiopians, too. But the purpose was just to have a list of places in that part of the world. The list was short enough, and I figured political control was good enough for inclusion.
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The first President of the first Apolyton Democracy Game (CivII, that is)
The gift of speech is given to many,
intelligence to few.
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