NOT useless units!

Like2frolick · May 8, 2001, 14:41

::Bounce::
Hi!

I'm back....I have been gone a while...

Anyway, I noticed a thread on "Useless units"

Among them were: Trireme, Legion, Explorers...

Trireme: Oh COME ON! It's the earliest ship...it carries two units for three spaces, and it changes to a transport with Leos.
What's not to like? If you're on an Island, you can find another Island quickly....and another ship is a Loooooooong way away.

Legions: This one really burns my butt.
First off...Legions is simple to get.
A Legion is a 4, 2 unit, for 40 Shields.

It moves One Space.

Now....first off, it's QUICK. You can build Legions right off the bat, or with One advance. Iron Working. If you start with bronze working, you can Build Legions within 10 turns.

Secondly, they have the ability to take a beating. A veteran Legion can take an attack from an Archer, and win. They can counter-attack, and kill a veteran Warrior behind a city wall.

"But...why not use an Elephant!?"
Well...Yes, Elephants are good, in SOME situations. An Elephant is capable of Moving twice the distance as a Legion, and hitting as Hard. So a Herd of Elephants will win....right?

Well....Unless there's, say, a forest in the way. Or a Mountain Chain.
All of a sudden, your Elephant is moving slowly...and WOW! He also is a sitting duck for enemy legions, Elephants, Archers, etc.

Now....same situation:
Legion tromps into a forest...DARE someone to attack you.
2+1+1=4 defense... And that's without and kind of defensive action. A Legion can shrug off an Archer, and have an even chance of stopping an Elephant which attacks.

Now....Let's say you have an Enemy Kingdom, with City walls, and three Phalanx behind it.

Chances are you want Catapaults. And, of course, an escort to keep some wwarrior from trashing your expensive Unit.

Now....Total Cost: Catapault+Phalanx=60 shields.

And the Phalanx can't attack.

Legions are quick, if you're on an Island with an Enemy, they might be your only hope.

If your enemy doesn't have city walls, then a Legion can take it all on it's lonesome.

(Vet Legion: Att 6, def: 3)
(Phalanx: 2+1+1=4...No defenses..)
AND you don't need an escort.

Once a Legion takes a place, generally it stays there.
I love having my Legions move through forests, over hills and mountains. If the enemy dares to attack they lose a Unit, and I continue moving at base speed.

In conclusion:
Use elephants if you have an enemy who has nothing but plains between you and him. Use a Catapault/Phalanx combo for taking down heavy defenses. Use a whole bunch of Legions if there's any kind of rocky terrain, and your opponent can put up a fight.

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I dunno. I think nukes are cool..If you're the only one who has em.

airdrik · May 8, 2001, 15:41

We should make a thread for the GL about units and strategies. Have at least one strategy per unit, like in ancient use warrios for early exploration and citizen subduing, phalanx are main defence which can be stacked with heavy offencive units as escorts, etc.

Marquis de Sodaq · May 8, 2001, 16:49

An aside, the defense factors are multiplied together, not added. For more info than you may care to read about combat, see the Info: Combat (GL) thread.

I agree, legions are good. They are the first barbarians to appear that make me worry about defenses. I suspect many apolytoners hate them because knights are as good and twice as fast. However, like most units, there is a time and place for them in almost any game.

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"There is no fortress impregnable to an ass laden with gold."
-Philip of Macedon

Chris1111 · May 8, 2001, 17:14

I'm to lazy to look in the rules.txt but dont legion's have better fire power and hitpoints then elephants. Anyway I have found them efficient in the early game for wiping out a close rival or two. The 2 defense is also good imo when you come upon those accursed horseman who will wipe out your elephants $#!@

DrFell · May 8, 2001, 17:17

If I've learnt one thing from playing mp, its that the trireme is one of the most useful units. Many games have been won or lost due to a suprise naval attack early in the game (triremes loaded with elephants + phalanxes/pikes). Legions are good, but I never use them, ususally I combine elephants and a good defensive unit to stay behind in the city after I've moved the elephants on. Plus their greater movement rate (in 2x move and on roads especially) lets them get to inland cities much quicker than legions. With legions I simply wouldn't get the same element of suprise, which is very important in a successful attack.

debeest · May 8, 2001, 18:34

Nope. HP and FP are both 1 for both legions and elephants.

Triremes help you meet other civs. Invaluable in many games.

War4ever · May 8, 2001, 19:16

i am not a fan of legions..... if they are caught in the open.... bye bye expensive unit..... their 2 def is misleading..... many times a horse can kick a legions ass in open terrain......

and a better way to attack would be with a legion protecting the catapult.
resulting in the legion withstanding the intial blow.... the cat attacking and then hopefull the legion taking the city and healing himself or attacking as well
or for the same price two phalanxs and a cat.... in case your attacked twice by the defender as you mosey up to the city preferably on good def terrain of course

Barb legions freak me out though

DrFell · May 8, 2001, 20:44

Nothing worse than a barb legion roaming around the mountains near your cities in 3000 bc...

VetLegion · May 8, 2001, 20:49

quote:

Among them were: Trireme, Legion, Explorers...

Trireme: Oh COME ON! It's the earliest ship...it carries two units for three spaces, and it changes to a transport with Leos.
What's not to like? If you're on an Island, you can find another Island quickly....and another ship is a Loooooooong way away.

I have to agree here fully. I love triremes, in fact I finished a load of games with no better ship. I call the period between triremes and Lighthouse/Navigation "the age of the brave sailor". I lose quite a few on exploring. What AI fears most? A trireme with two crusaders on board...

I rarely build legions

but...

quote:

Once a Legion takes a place, generally it stays there.

... thats where the nickname is coming from

Chainsaw · May 9, 2001, 07:35

quote:

Originally posted by VetLegion on 05-08-2001 08:49 PM
... thats where the nickname is coming from

Really? What does is mean translated?

Edward · May 9, 2001, 13:28

quote:

Originally posted by War4ever on 05-08-2001 07:16 PM
many times a horse can kick a legions ass in open terrain......

I once had a border city surrounded by open terrain. It's single defending horseman took on all attackers for centuries. Horsemen have almost even odds against legions in the open.

While I must admit to being scared of approaching legions, usually some other unit fits the bill better when I'm deciding what to build.

For defense, my border cities usually already have one or more phalanxes and warriors so I don't need the legion's 2 def. If I want a counterattacker, I'll chose a catapult for power or a horse/elephant/crusader for speed. Two movement units can zip in and protect other nearby cities as well as their home. They can also chase down barb leaders left after an unsuccessful barb attack. I'll have to change my mindset and try East Street Trader's diplo defense some day.

As for an assault, I am just too darned impatient to move around a bunch of legions or catapults. I'd rather use a fast, inefficient, high-loss elephant/crusader assault horde than a slow, successful, low-loss legion or phalanx/catapult horde. This is probably because I don't devote enough settlers to building a good road system into the enemy when I do (rarely) go for conquest. Also I haven't done much naval assaulting (where the ground units' movement would be less important).

VetLegion · May 9, 2001, 17:43

quote:

Really? What does is mean translated?

That if I were an ancient unit, I d be a Veteran Legion. What else