Delenda sunt...

[La Fayette]

I suppose that this challenge is very old, but I have read nothing about it in the archive:
The challenge is to win the "Rome" scenario that goes with the game (at least with mine) in less than a century (100 turns).
I won yesterday after 89 turns (last objective conquered in 189 BC).
I suppose that strong players manage to win faster.
How much faster? That is my question.

[SandMonkey]

Who were you playing as?

I have never beaten it that quickly, but I like playing as the Selucid. I fight up through asia minor into the balkans (usually allying with the independent greeks). After I secure greece, I move through Egypt, while continuing war with the Celts in eastern europe. This works pretty well, as my lands with my ally usually cover the eastern half of the map. This is about the time I run out of turns...

[La Fayette]

I have played this scenario several times with any of the 7 civs (IMO that is part of the fun, since the strategy needs to be adapted to the civ you are playing with).
This time my name was Irakius (I let you guess which civ it was ).

[rixxe]

In which level mates ??!

[La Fayette]

Rixxe,
Deity, sir (I must confess I haven't felt like playing at any other level since I started that one).

I'm also playing on Deity only.... actually... tonight, I had to play EyesOfNight on MP, and he insisted on playing King.. I lost

[La Fayette]

97 years with the Romans (Rome scenario, Deity level).

[CapTVK]

quote: Originally posted by Chaos Warrior on 02-12-2001 05:55 PM I'm also playing on Deity only.... actually... tonight, I had to play EyesOfNight on MP, and he insisted on playing King.. I lost

Yup that's Eyes, ICS'er to the bone (plus some horsey hut strategy thrown in). Never, ever, play according to his rules and never let him host the game!

Some time ago he admitted (it took a very heated debate in the Civ2MP-forum though) to having tweaked the rules.txt a bit and not informing the other players. I haven't heard much complaints about him lately so he may have reformed. But you should be careful when he asks to host the game.

[DrFell]

Played this scenario as the Carthaginians ages ago, IIRC i conquered Egypt, the Seleucids, and was getting to work with the Romans and Macedonians when i decided to quit the game (stupid techs being researched, and the celts were filling Europe with cities). This all took about 150 years, but i got stuck trying to capture Athens and lost most of my army that had conquered the turkey area, when i gave up.

[sulla]

I dislike the Rome scenario for various reasons but mainly I believe that Civ II is just not good enough for a Roem scenario, I prefer the World War Two scenario and the World War One scenario from the Multiplayer Gold Edition.


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Sulla-The last dictator of Rome before Caesar. He changed Rome and Rome sure as hell changed him.

[La Fayette]

quote: Originally posted by DrFell on 02-25-2001 09:04 PM Played this scenario as the Carthaginians ages ago, IIRC i conquered Egypt, the Seleucids, and was getting to work with the Romans and Macedonians when i decided to quit the game (stupid techs being researched, and the celts were filling Europe with cities). This all took about 150 years, but i got stuck trying to capture Athens and lost most of my army that had conquered the turkey area, when i gave up.

Try once more!
Don't be afraid of the Celts: they build like ICSers, but they are mostly able to build chariots. Build a nice walled city close to them and you'll see dozens of them die against your walls.
Don't forget either that the center of this scenario is the Mediterranean
(superironclads or even mighty fregates make a tremendous job).

[La Fayette]

Sorry Mr Nelson; I meant frigates of course.

[DrFell]

Maybe I'll give this one another go if I can find the time. Super Ironclads in a Rome scenario, now thats something I never thought of before

[La Fayette]

quote: Originally posted by DrFell on 02-28-2001 10:24 AM Maybe I'll give this one another go if I can find the time. Super Ironclads in a Rome scenario, now thats something I never thought of before

The first time I played it, it ended with nukes and cruise missiles (against the Egyptians who had been rather clever following me in the tech race, thanks to the GL in Alexandria).

[DrFell]

quote: Originally posted by La Fayette on 03-01-2001 07:43 AM The first time I played it, it ended with nukes and cruise missiles (against the Egyptians who had been rather clever following me in the tech race, thanks to the GL in Alexandria).

In my Carthaginian game i decided to quit when dragoons became available... o well

[La Fayette]

97 years with the Carthaginians (Rome scenario, deity level)

[Marquis de Sodaq]

I think my quickest was about 110 years with the Seleucids. All 7 are viable for the human player. Play it smart - explore, expand, and hem in the others as called for by your resources. Only the Independent Greeks have a real disadvantage (disparate geography) at the start.

Who to attack first? The Carthaginians start out as wimps. You can capture their unwalled cities in no more time than it takes to get there, provided you use two units. On the other hand, the human player is not so weak with them. My Hannibubba was master of the entire italian peninsula by 220bc.

[DrFell]

quote: Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq on 03-08-2001 01:10 PM Who to attack first? The Carthaginians start out as wimps

Unfortunately I usually play as the Carthaginians

I think Romans are probably easiest to play... start out with a big military, and Great Wall (good against those damn Celts).

Carthaginians only advantage at the start is the number of caravans (although they're all hides :mad , and their navy.

The greek empires are all powerful... the one I take out first is the Egyptians, unwalled cities, all close together (although on good terrain).

Independant Greeks probably werent meant for play.

Celts have all of Spain and France to expand into, but poor tech.

The Rome scenario always impressed me as to how well balanced it was.

[DrFell]

Very impressive... my game, I've got about 20 yrs left and so far I've only conquered the Egyptians and part of the Seleucid empire. I think I started conquering too late to beat the 100 year mark.

Which empire did you go for first? When did you start conquering?

[La Fayette]

quote: Originally posted by DrFell on 03-08-2001 12:20 PM Which empire did you go for first? When did you start conquering?

Whichever civ I choose, playing this scenario, I never start conquering before at least 50 years used to stay at peace (if possible), trade, earn gold and beakers, get stronger and build a navy.

Ranking civs, my experience up to now is:
1) Seleucids (they have both HG and Copernicus + good terrain around) = easy to make them militarily strong and performing in research.
2) Romans (easy to develop with GW).
3) Independant (most happiness problems solved with Oracle + possibilities offered by Colossus in Rhodes).
4) Carthaginians (building LH and developing southern Spain rather than North Africa where the terrain is not easy , except in the western part).
5) Egyptians (GL and Pyramids, but difficult to expand peacefully in the east).
6) Macedonians (no Wonder, and difficult to expand peacefully).
7) Celts (despotism, low tech, bad access to the sea).

[Xin Yu]

With the cash from selling improvements and tribute, you rush build some elephants, triemies, and diplos. You have some legions at the start. Steal or trade techs for caravan and elephant.

Go for capitals first: Syracuse, Antioch, Pella, Carthage. Then bribe the rest of the civ's cities.

Details: Use 1 trimie to carry 2 legions fortify on hills next to a civ's capital, then the next turn use 2 trimies to carry 4 elephants land on a grass/plain next to the city and attack the same turn. After capturing the city, use trimies to carry diplos to bribe other cities. Sell all of their improvements for money to build more diplos and bribe more cities.

To start conquest early, you can go for Syracuse. Land 4 legions on hills next to it and attack the next turn. You do not need to wait for elephants.

Carthage does not have hills next to it so you need more elephants to attack directly.

Meanwhile send caravans to rhode for more cash and new techs such as navigation....

[Exile]

It's great to see civ2ers attacking the ancient scenarios. If you really like the Roman scenario, then you might try several other scenarios that are out there.

Imperium Romanum by BeBro is a great one. It starts at approximately the same place as the Roman scenario, but is customized extensively, with new techs, units, improvements, and events. It's available on his own site, as well as several other places.

Mediterranean Dark Age by yours truly. It begins in the year 700 and ends 1100 AD. The civs are Byzantines, Goths, Lombards, Arabs, Slavs, and Bulgars, with some barbarians thrown in. Completely reworked tech tree, new units, improvements, and wonders. Available on the European Civilization Site

Rome 280BC by Rick Westera. This one also covers much of the same period as the default Roman scenario, but does so with style and imagination. I think this one is on the Scenario League's site, as well as a lot of other places.

Frankly, the Roman scenario that comes stock with FW and MGE is, by comparison with these others, a little drab. Try any one of the 3 I listed and I'm sure you'll be delighted.

Salutations,
Exile

[DaveV]

43 turns (last city captured in 235 BC). Due to not rereading this thread, I went for a total conquest victory instead of just capturing all the objective cities. I played as the Romans and used ship chaining and incremental rushbuilding extensively. I also squeezed the AIs for a lot of tribute in the early game, and traded for Polytheism. Otherwise, no dubious tactics. My basic strategy: attack with vet elephants from the sea, sell all improvements except barracks and temples. A log:

278 Trade Republic to Carthage for Polytheism, Macedonians declare war. Sell Granaries, Courthouses.
277 Sell more improvements.
276 Taras captured. Macedonians and Celts sign secret alliance vs. Rome.
275 Hispalis founded (41,17). Independents and Celts sign secret alliance vs. Rome. Ptolemaics declare war. Selucids pay 350 for peace.
274 We attack Celts, Carthaginians activate alliance and declare war.
273 Delphi captured. Macedonians pay 200 for cease fire.
272 Carthaginians pay 350 for cease fire.
271 Sparta captured. Ptolemaics pay 350 for cease fire. Independents pay 350 for cease fire.
269 Carthaginians declare war. Caralis destroyed.
268 Milan captured, Independents pay 100 for peace. Carthaginians and Ptolemaics sign secret alliance vs. Rome.
267 Carthaginians pay 100 for cease fire.
266 Carthaginians pay 200 for peace. Macedonians pay 100 for peace. Selucids give Philosophy in tribute.
265 Celt chariot kills my settler . Ptolemaics declare war. Selucids give 75 tribute. We sneak attack Carthaginians, reputation drops to Dishonorable. Antioch captured.
264 Macedonians declare war. Ptolemaics pay 350 for cease fire. Independents declare war. Celts pay 300 for cease fire.
263 We sneak attack Carthaginians, they activate their alliance with Ptolemaics, Celts. Reputation drops to Atrocious. Lilybaeum captured.
261 Damascus captured.
260 Syracuse captured.
259 Raphia destroyed.
258 Macedonians and Selucids sign secret alliance vs. Rome.
257 Alexandria captured. Ptolemaics sign cease fire.
256 Carthage captured.
255 Virconium founded. Hippo Regius captured.
254 Heliopolis, Leptis captured.
253 Memphis, Massilia captured.
252 Valladoid destroyed.
251 Cyrene captured, Ptolemaics destroyed. Independents and Celts sign secret alliance vs. Rome.
250 Aleppo captured.
248 Athens captured.
246 Selucia captured.
245 Hangchow, Gades captured (Carthaginians destroyed). Independents and Macedonians sign secret alliance vs. Rome.
244 Rhodes bribed (480 gold).
243 La Tene, Xinjian, Miletus captured.
242 Pergamum capyured.
240 Kabul (192), Demetrias (252), Chengdu (114) bribed. Abdera, Nisibis captured (Selucids destroyed).
239 Khanbalyk (124) bribed. Mycenae destroyed, Independents destroyed. All barracks sold to build up cash for final push.
238 Hecatompylos (305), Galatia (186) bribed (Macedonians destroyed). Basra destroyed. Celts pay 100 for cease fire .
237 Ormuz, Numantia captured.
236 Give Iron Working to Celts for Peace.
235 Braunsberg (216) bribed, Celts destroyed.
[This message has been edited by DaveV (edited April 25, 2001).]

[East Street Trader]

quote: Originally posted by DaveV on 04-25-2001 12:44 PM declare war. Sell Granaries, Courthouses. destroy ).]

So the land is lain waste, the people starve, each man sharpens his sword and is watchful of his neighbour... and DaveV broadly smiles.

Reckon all my history teacher's talk of aquaducts and roads and centrally heated villas was so much rot.

Romans rule, OK!!!

[East Street Trader]

Thanks, Exile.

I'll certainly try all those. They sound right up my street!

[La Fayette]

Hello, Dave!
43 years... and I was happy with 90!
Thank you for the lesson!
Of course, reading you, it is quite clear that your strategy is MUCH more performing than the one I had in use.
And it seems that Xin Yu is on his way to winning even faster than that (and meanwhile Samson launches a ship with one city size one).
What do I do playing civ?
Help!

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aux bords mystérieux du monde occidental

[La Fayette]

quote: Originally posted by East Street Trader on 04-25-2001 12:54 PM So the land is lain waste, the people starve, each man sharpens his sword and is watchful of his neighbour... and DaveV broadly smiles.

The river of my tears is even deeper than yours, EST (since I took latin 7 years in a row).
What is now left to us, poor perfectionnists?
Blood and tears, I fear.
"Cent fois sur le métier remettez votre ouvrage", the poet said.
We shall bow, we shall learn sharpening our swords instead of building ludicrous villas, and then we shall fight!
What else can be done in those times of launching ships with ONE city size ONE?


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aux bords mystérieux du monde occidental

[La Fayette]

Exile
Thank you for the tips (though I don't think I shall be playing any Rome scenario within a few weeks from now, since I'm now having LOTS OF fun with trying to win ww2 scenario with minor civs).

As far as the original Rome scenario is concerned:
1) Dave is (by far) the winner for the time being: 43 years with the Romans.
2) There are 7 civs, each one with different abilities, hence 7 possible record games.
3) My original challenge was winning in less than a century. It is obviously obsolete now.
4) There remains 2 challenges:
- beating Dave's 43 years with the Romans;
- establishing a record for any of 7 civs (my 90 years with the Carthaginians being valid today, but very easy to beat, I suppose, after having read Dave's log).

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aux bords mystérieux du monde occidental

[La Fayette]

quote: Originally posted by DaveV on 04-25-2001 12:44 PM 43 turns (last city captured in 235 BC). 276 Taras captured. .[This message has been edited by DaveV (edited April 25, 2001).]

Only one question:
IIRC there are more units in Taras than the city size.
Anytime I attacked it, the city was destroyed.
Did you capture it or destroy it?

[DaveV]

quote: Originally posted by La Fayette on 04-27-2001 11:38 AM Only one question: IIRC there are more units in Taras than the city size. Anytime I attacked it, the city was destroyed. Did you capture it or destroy it?

Captured it. I moved three legions adjacent to the city. The AI attacked out of the city with one of their units and damaged my vet legion, then moved an elephant and archer out of the city on a trireme. They debarked those units onto the hills north of Taras. This left only one unit in the city, which I killed with a legion, then my vet legion took the city and healed back to full strength. The AI elephant killed himself attacking my archer behind walls, and I think I bribed the AI archer.