Why can't we discuss the lack of multiplayer in Civ III in the Civ II MP Forum?

[Lefty Scaevola]

Markos leans more to the gods of order than thoses of chaos.

[Alexander's Horse]

MarkG's forum content obsession reminds me of that episode of MASH where Frank Burns was acting CO and ordered everyone got the same number carrots in the same compartment in the mess trays.

Go Markos!

[Imran Siddiqui]

I have to agree with Mark. Why can't you discuss this on Civ3 General? I haven't heard a convincing argument why you can't.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I have to agree with Mark. Why can't you discuss this on Civ3 General? I haven't heard a convincing argument why you can't.

Last time I checked you aren't a regular of the civ MP forum. My point precisely.

Bloody busybody

[rah]

Every thread about MP in the CIVIII section has many posts by people that don't care about MP. EXCUSE ME for not feeling as comfortable discussing MP there as I am in the CIV II MP forum.

AND I HATE AGREEING WITH AH, but at least he plays MP, so when he expresses an opinion on MP, it carries much more weight then those snivelling little SPers in the CIV III section.

But most importantly, the CIV II MP forum has slowed down with all the CIV III hype going on. I want to discuss it with the CIV II MP community. I really don't see the problem.


RAH
Of course, this type of attitude by the establishment is exactly why MP will not be released at the start. It's just not important enough to worry about

[spartak]

My apologies for my of-topic posts earlier on in this thread. This is clearly a very serious and valid discussion and I hope that my levity did not distract from the good points made.

*Takes an opportunity to be on the same side as Ming and AH at the same time*

[Makeo]

i don't have much to say about civ3 mp.
but what i do have to say i would only say it in the civ2 mp forum or a civ3mp forum.
i believe this has already been said many times but it is true that the mp threads in the civ3 general forum are inundated with spers that don't really know what there talking about. this stifles what the real mpers want to talk about. its for this reason that i don't post in the civ3 section mp threads. i want to talk to mpers, not spammers.


Presently i don't feel that it is necessary to create a civ3 mp forum, simply because the game doesn't exist yet. i do think it would be nice to have a thread or two on civ3 in the civ2mp forum

[Alexander's Horse]

[Bird]

Instead of a forum called Civ II Multiplaying, why not just change it to Civ Multiplaying for the near term. All posts will then be neatly tucked away in their proper forum. You can create a Civ III Multiplaying forum whenever the time becomes right.

The reason none of the hardcore MPers will discuss Civ III MP issues on the Civ III General board is b/c there is too much "garbage" to sift through. I'm not particularly interested in a thread that simply complains about the speculated lack of MP in the initial release of Civ III, but I would like to discuss anticipated strategic issues in light of the few features and other things we know about Civ III.

The important thing, to me, is that I can't imagine anyone who uses the Civ II MP forum complaining about Civ III MP threads. Horsie probably would have had he been given the opportunity, but he's already boxed himself in on this one.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Bird

Instead of a forum called Civ II Multiplaying, why not just change it to Civ Multiplaying for the near term. All posts will then be neatly tucked away in their proper forum. You can create a Civ III Multiplaying forum whenever the time becomes right.

MarkG has already closed at least half a dozen threads on the civ II Mp forum. Its getting ridiculous.

[connorkimbro]

I agree there should be a CivIII-MP forum. It's a little unfair of mark to say there's no interested, when he's closing down all sorts of threads that are not in the right place, and the REASON that they're not in the right place is because there ISN'T really a good place for them yet. Why isn't there. . because there's no interest? errm. . right.

On the other hand, it's also a bit unfair for some here to bash the very newly developing civ3 community, some of those people who havn't even hardly played civ2 are going to become some of the best civ3 players out there, MP or SP. Don't use superiority (oh, I've played civ2 more than you, and I play MP, so ha!) to try to make yourself seem more important.

I've never played a MP game of Civ2 in my life. Why? Not because i'm some ignorant whining inexperienced little Civ2 players as some here would suggest. . but because i've never had the necessary ingredients all at the same time. 1. The Game 2. The time or 3. The people to play with. I had MPG at one time, but didn't have the people to play with, so i never played it. I sold the game. Now, i have the time, and the people to play with, but no game. And with civ3 just around the corner, i doubt that i'll start. However, that doesn't make me an inferior civ2 player. Granted, I have ZERO civ2 MP experience, but it doesn't mean that i don't know the game inside and out. Im sure the same is true of many of those "children" over in the civ3 forums.

Anyhow, i plan on being an active member of the civ3 community. I'm somewhat dissappointed by the fact that there's no MP right out of the box, although i probably don't know exactly what I'm missing yet. But i look forward to MPing, and i'd welcome a forum to start discussing the things that can be discussed at this point.

just my 2 (or maybe 3) cents.

[Alexander's Horse]

I'm not one of those who feel superior to single players, and I will continue to contribute to the Civ III general forum on multiplayer issues regardless of what happens on this request - I think Firaxis reads it.

But having said that, I would still like to discuss the Civ III Mp problem with my friends on the civ 2 MP forum. I see no harm in it at all and in fact it IS a civ II MP issue because it looks like we will be playing civ II a lot longer than we expected

[TCO]

Rah, et al.,

I'm planning on commenting if I want to in MP threads within Civ2 MP. (I am not an MPer, now.)

[rah]

As long as you don't dismiss MP as being unimportant, I think people will welcome your opinion. That's the real issue here. The MP forum is 95% MP players. When I'm discussing MP whether it be civ2 or 3, I prefer to discuss it with people that care about MP. That is more likely to happen in the MP forum.

I don't mind SP players, just the ones that don't care about my MP concerns because to them it's an after thought.

RAH
It's nice to see a lot of the MP posters supporting that opinion in this thread. But I haven't seen Mark respond in many days, which is dissapointing. What's the harm Mark?

[connorkimbro]

I don't mind SP players, just the ones that don't care about my MP concerns because to them it's an after thought.

Perhaps i misunderstood at first then. Anyhow, i agree with you here.

[TCO]

Originally posted by rah
As long as you don't dismiss MP as being unimportant, I think people will welcome your opinion. That's the real issue here. The MP forum is 95% MP players. When I'm discussing MP whether it be civ2 or 3, I prefer to discuss it with people that care about MP. That is more likely to happen in the MP forum.

I don't mind SP players, just the ones that don't care about my MP concerns because to them it's an after thought.

RAH
It's nice to see a lot of the MP posters supporting that opinion in this thread. But I haven't seen Mark respond in many days, which is dissapointing. What's the harm Mark?

I'll be aware of the social dynamic on those threads. I may make some points regarding the economics of supporting feuatures enjoyed by a minority of the community. I lurk on the MP boards since I like the community of players. I don't post that much, since I don't have the game. But every now and then I stick my nose under the tent skirt...

[SITS]

On the 21/9 MarkG posted this in a thread he closed in CIV2 MP...

sits, thank you for the response in the apolyton forum and the initiative to start these threads in the civ3-general forum. if the amount and the diversity of discussions about mp increases, we will make the civ3-mp forum sooner than scheduled

The threads I started in CIV3 - General have been lost in all the chatter which is a shame...

[SITS]

I also got annoyed with a SP'er moaning so I wrote this in a thread...

You are right - the MP crowd should have their own forum.

New research out shows the MP'ers have greater social skills and are able contribute to society in a much more positive way than their SP counterparts. SP'ers tend to be more selfish, complain about things much more, often fail to offer solutions but are able to create endless problems and tend to have an enormous amount of games that they have bought which filled their attention span for the 11 minute capacity that TV has trained them for since childhood.

The research carried out by Dr M. P. Layer also found that SP'ers tend to have a marked lesser brain development compared to apes of the same age. The research was carried out by observing each group as they tried to solve a maze. The MP'ers were able to co-operate together to quickly find their way out. Their superior social skills had been turned in a survival mechanism. On the other hand several SP'ers starved to death as they refused to read the instruction to receive food pellets and a large proportion were unable to comprehend the concept that simply spitting their dummy out didn't instantly remove them from the maze.

Dr Layer concluded that a huge evolutionary advance was needed for a SP'er to reach the same standard of MP'ers which usually requires them to read the manual. As this was unlikely Dr Layer recommended that the interaction between these two diverse groups should be kept to a minimum to reduce the aggression that SP'ers seem to express every single emotion.

Not that I'm against SP'ers just the ones who seem to make the most noise.

Mark closed the thread shortly after that saying...

if you dont like MP discussions, dont read them and even better, dont participate in them!

Which to me sounds like Mark is supportive of the idea of a Civ3 - MP thread but it will take a little time....

[Alexander's Horse]

And will continue to do so

But I would appreciate an INFORMED discussion on civ III with my civ 2 MP friends now and then. Some of the best, most knowledgeable and/or hard core civ players hang out there.

Hi guys

Come on Mark don't be a Taliban about this

[rah]

Thanks, connorkimbro and GP.
Sometimes when I get angry, I don't make myself clear, and I appreciated the opportunity to clarify it.

LOL AH, and SITS
Where is Mullah Mark?

I'm personally hoping that he is ignoring this thread AND some of the CIV II MP threads that stretch the definition.

RAH

[Fiera]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
And will continue to do so

Oh, aren't you happy enough with your trilogy? Ambitious horse...

[rah]

Since Mark seems to be refusing to answer us here.

Please post your comments about censorship here.


http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=27651




RAH

[Alexander's Horse]

*sob*

Don't you like your old friend horsie any more Mark?

[Ming]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
*sob*
Don't you like your old friend horsie any more Mark?

Old friend
Yeah... right...

[Alexander's Horse]

[MarkG]

Originally posted by rah
Since Mark seems to be refusing to answer us here.

Rah, first you hope that i'm ignoring the thread, then you complain about me not posting....

anyway, sits quoted my response on the issue

i havent seen any new arguments, so....

[rah]

Correct, then I saw your high and mighty troll on censorship at the VOA. How many sides of your mouth can you talk from?


While you may not have seen any new arguements (all of which where valid, as if you care) More people from the MP forum have posted their support of discussing it there here, than all the people that post in the CTP2 forum in total. I could probably look at a few other forums and make the same comment.

So maybe this is a customer service issue. It looks like your customer has spoken. Are you just being stuborn because you've already made a decision and don't want to look foolish by changing it. If that's the case, that shouldn't matter, because you already look foolish.

Again I ask, what possible harm can it cause? You have yet to answer that one. Or just open up an CIV3 MP forum. But since one solution requries you to do absolutely nothing, which would satisfy us, IT SHOULD BE A NO BRAINER.

What I don't understand, is that in the past, you've shown yourself to be flexible and responsive to posters to make this a better place. WHAT HAS CHANGED. Please don't say pride. We've already seen what that leads to. Heck, even the mod for that forum has posted his support.

AND IF YOU"RE gonna post the same lame tired ass response from above, DON"T BOTHER. Just reread the whole damn thread and see just how many people would like this.


RAH

And I know that this type of tone doesn't win arguements, but since you've even stated that you've stoped listening, you have left me no recourse. I would like to follow my own advice, but sometimes I can't. (see below)

[Bird]

Hehehe. What's up rah? Bit of a hangover, or perhaps missed a few too many two foot putts? We all know Mark's not stubborn, so that can't be it.

[MarkG]

rah,

after seeing the response to sits' threads in the civ3-general and the civ2/civ3 threads in the civ2-mp i still think there isnt enough actual interest to open the civ3-mp before it's time

beyond that, i'm wondering if you have any idea why there are no requests for the civ3-stategy or the civ3-creation forums to open earlier, even though there is much more info on these areas than multiplayer....

[rah]

Ok, a discussion, GREAT.

I've stopped going to the CIV3 forum, over this issue, so I can't really comment on that. I think you're right, not enough to open up a CIV 3 MP yet. So just don't close any MP discussions in the MP 2 forum. That's all we ask. In fact, I hope you've already seen the light on that one since there are still three poorly disguised threads there already that aren't closed.

All we ask for now, is that you do nothing. Let us discuss a few 3 issues in the 2 MP forum. You can even use the activity there to help you judge when there's enough material to start a CIV 3 MP forum.

THANK YOU, for doing nothing.

RAH

And I was really hoping you'd take the bait in the VOA thread, But alas, you're smarter than the average bear.