Turns of ADB001 - Aldeberan MP Scenario

Scipio Centaurus · September 20, 2001, 08:54

2301 off to Qantaga.

Good luck!

Sorry about the tamper message. I started the game as a SP scenario and had to do it over as MP.

Is human inter-faction communication allowed from the start? Or should we wait until some in-game event triggers the possibility of communication?

- Scipio

Qantaga · September 20, 2001, 09:36

I do have the turn. I am heading out for a long drive this afternoon (no more planes for me for awhile), so it will be later this evening before I can play it.

I do need Arima's e-mail before I can pass it along since the e-mail link on Apolyton doesn't allow for attachments (although I could just post it here on the thread if necessary).

If you want to keep your e-mail private, send it to me at:

qantaga@aol.com

Thanks.

Oh, and my personal choice would be to wait until you discover commlinks in the game, but I am happy to play with immediate contact if the rest of you prefer.

johndmuller · September 20, 2001, 12:59

Edit: I'm putting the turn order in so that I can remember

Game order and factions:

Scipio Centaurus : Syndicate
Quantaga : Planetlovers
Arima : Peacemakers
JohnDMuller : Nauticon
Smack : Outlaw (UNF)

AI: Galactics, Universality

Smack:

Just so I am sure I know what I'm doing. . .

I put the contents of the Main Download into a subdirectory (I called it "AldebSMP", but I don't suppose that matters) of the "Scenarios" subdirectory, which is a subdirectory of "Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri" which is seemingly the root of the Alpha Centauri install (there is a higher "Firaxis Games" subdirectory, but I think that is irrelevant).

I am still unclear as to whether I should put the contents of the Graphics download into the aforementioned "Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri" subdirectory or into the "AldebSMP" subdirectory of the "Scenarios" subdirectory. Perhaps it will find them in either if it follows the seeming conventions mentioned in the .txt files. It doesn't look problematic in any case since they seem to be unique file names. Nearly all of the other .pcx files are in that main "Sid Meier's . . ." subdirectory, but at least one of the provided scenarios has a units.pcx file in its Scenarios subdirectory. I take it these files provide the images for the bases and leaders and so forth; is that true? units too? Please offer the suggested location - try not to cop out with any of this "on the Mac" stuff.

While I was looking at the other Scenario files, I noticed that they all had a Scenario.txt file and yours has a regular alpha.txt file instead - is that what distinguishes between a Scenario and a Mod? The more I think about it, it occurs to me that you could probably combine the two as the scenario.txt files seem to be about victory conditions instead of game parameters.

Scanning through the alpha.txt file, it seems that you made a bunch of changes, some of which are mostly in name, but I'm sure that some are significant deviations; is there a brief summary somewhere of what to expect to be different, or is the discovering of the differences supposed to be one of the main fun things?

Scipio Centaurus · September 20, 2001, 13:26

I'll take a whack at this since I use a PC and have some limited experience messing with scenarios. The TXT files (including alpha.tx) can be left in the scenario folder you created. SMAC on a PC apparantly does not access files in scenario subfolders, but that's OK, because the SAV file you will receive each turn should incorporate the modified Aldebaran rules logic from those TXT files. Just like the 'no-crawlers' mods to alpha.txt passed through to each player in ACS003 - without requiring subsequent player to load any modified files.

If you want the special graphics for Aldebaran (PCX files) you will need to load these into the default game directory - Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri. You will want to backup all PCX files in this default directory before loading in any new ones. Note that if you do not get these files installed properly, the scenario will run OK, but you may get incorrect graphics for leaders, bases, units and whatnot. A survivable error.

- Scipio

Avenoct · September 20, 2001, 14:43

A link back to the signup thread

JohnD,

As Scipio has pointed out, once the scenario is started you don't need the .txt files for the scenario...on a PC. I was mistaken about that. This means our save-games will probably be larger than usual as they incorporate the rules changes that got the scenario running. It also means no-one but the first player (Scipio) needed the Scenario folder. I could have even played out the first turn then switched the clock back to 2301 and noone but the creator (me) would have needed the mod. This is a great thing for future games.

None of the Aldebaran PCX (graphics) files have the same name as any original file, therefore, if you download them from the Network Node, you can just add them to your game directory along side the original graphics and you'll never notice them except in playing Aldebaran. So, you can skip the step Scipio mentions above.

About the Units.pcx file. I don't know why you'd find that in a scenario unless someone modified the actual units in that graphic. I havn't in Aldebaran.

About the Scenario.txt file. That's a handy file to customize the text for victories and opening a scenario. It has nothing to do with alpha.txt. The reason you don't see any alpha.txt in an original Firaxis scenario is because they always use the original rules, hence, it's not needed and goes to the default alpha.txt in the main game directory. You are correct in that if you download a scenario (from anywhere) and the alpha.txt is not identical (and redundant) to the original, you are in fact playing a mod.

So, to summarize and answer your questions JohnD:

Playing the Game (much simpler than I'd thought

)
1. You're emailed the turn. Save it anywhere.
2. Start Smac, MP, Scenario, Load Scenario, load your turn. You'll be prompted for a password, just like an MP regular game. The first turn you get to define your own password.
3. Play the turn
4. Save the turn and pass it along.

Graphics (optional): Go to the www.NetworkNode.org site and download the Aldebaran Graphics. Place the expanded files into the same directory as all the original graphics.

Getting background on the techtree, etc. I've made some comparisons on my webpage, but as we all know, Yahoo is punishing me for being popular by making my page accessable only occasionally. As an alternative, the story can be found in the 'Polyton Fiction threads for AC, and the Alphatext comparison can be found in the Creation threads under the Aldebaran Pre-Release Notes. You're right that some things have changed in name only. These are the things that can't actually be changed in functionality (SP's, Facilities, etc.). I don't think any change is so vast that a player needs background to play, but nonetheless, a perusal of the above-mentioned forums could be helpful.

In a very real sense, you are the first visitors to an unexplored planet! I think you'll find that we're all going to be discovering as we go. This first group landing on Aldebaran is going to be quite interesting. As I said before, if you'd like to role-play your turns, a reading of the background story should help.

Alrighty, I've emailed Arima's email address to Qantaga. I can't tell you how excited I am without embarrasing myself.

-Smack

Scipio Centaurus · September 20, 2001, 17:31

Some things I noticed while starting the Aldebaran MP scenario:

1> The first player must select the factions that will be played by the humans, and the AI. Is the SC file setup to use only the human versions of the faction TXT files? Or is everyone playing with the souped-up AI versions? Unless you 'fix' the human controlled faction there will be no way for the scenario to know how to differentiate. If you fix the factions, you can simply create a scenario specific alpha.txt file with the human and AI faction TXT files preselected.

2> In looking at the datalinks (online help) for my faction (Syndicate) I noticed that the leader graphic was the guy (from the Stargate TV series?) who had been the leader of the Planetlovers in my previous attempt to playtest Aldebaran. Shouldn't it have been the Asian fellow (Yang's Minister of Finance)? The Syndicate help text seemed to be OK, though.

3> The Syndicate graphics were Gaian green and had the 3/4 dome base design of the Planetlover faction instead of Hive blue with the multi-tower base design as in the previous playtest. Don't know if you intended those changes.

- Scipio

PS. Might be a good idea for everyone to let you know what their password is in case anyone must take some time off from the game for vacation or whatever. I think we can trust you... right?

PPS. As an exercise to help the players get to know the tech tree, players might want to look up crawlers (ASU?) in the datalinks and then backtrack through the tech prerequisites for that unit and compare the results to the tech prereqs for crawlers in SMAC. You'll be surprised!

Qantaga · September 20, 2001, 17:32

Very cool, Smack. I am extremely impressed just with what I have seen so far.

I am really looking forward to this game.

2301 sent to Peacemaker Arima.

Avenoct · September 20, 2001, 17:40

Wow, that's hilarious, I had to swap the positions of the Syndicate and Planetlovers as the usual play order is: Planetlover, Syndicate, yadda. So the game loads the proper faction, but the positional graphics. Hehe...I don't think Firaxis really thought anyone would reload the factions for the scenarios.

As to the player/ai factions, I reloaded all the human versions in the above step of swapping. One way to check would be to go into the SE and if you have mongo bonuses to Industry for no reason, things have gotten gnarled. I don't anticipate that will happen. The info you didn't have was that I'd pre-loaded the proper versions of each faction.

Sorry for the graphics swap..maybe these factions have had some fashion consulting.

-Smack

Arima · September 20, 2001, 18:06

Good luck to all!

Turn sent to Nauticon JohnDMuller

Avenoct · September 20, 2001, 18:43

Now that we're started, I thought I'd mention that I set things up as a Thinker level game. When you meet the Universality or Galactics you'll understand

.

Also, I'm for the Commlink only when met in-game option. However, you can email me privately if you have game questions that other players wouldn't/shouldn't know about. I'm treating my own faction as a sort of in-game CMN. I'll play tough, but I'll try to be second fiddle.

-Smack

Avenoct · September 20, 2001, 18:55

Game Play Hints

Perhaps bridging the gap between the total unknown (for those that havn't played or read about Aldebaran previously) and a complete spoiler, here are a few things to keep in mind.

-Crawlers come quite a bit later
-Pop-booming is very tough till the late game
-Monoliths, the Ocean, Recycling tanks, Mineral bonuses all 'improved'
-some facilities that used to have upkeep are now free, and cheap to build
-some weapons have unexpected costs in terms of building
-choppers come in 4 flavors: a transport, an air-defense, a light attack, and an 'open-chassis'. The first three are cookie-cutters, don't retro-engineer them.
-There are quite a few valuable SE choices. It may be worth using the help-text to navigate around them and aim for fitting choices.
-Artillery and elevation play a larger role.
-Many more Secret Projects are available in the early game, so get ready if you want to build any.
-you can add the equivalent of soil-enrichers to the ocean, but you'll need to use the menu 'terraform' option as it has no key-bound.
-the ocean is rich
-the tech-tree has been called a tech 'shrubbery' because you will be getting many choices each time you enter the tech-chooser. It's low and flat. Keep in mind that there are so many choices that you might not be displayed every 'legal' choice.

I'll probably think of a few more, but that should help a bit.

-Smack

Scipio Centaurus · September 20, 2001, 18:56

Quote:

Originally posted by Smack
Now that we're started, I thought I'd mention that I set things up as a Thinker level game.

Hope you set that to override the scenario start menu, because I picked Transcend when offered the choice of difficulty levels.

Quote:

Also, I'm for the Commlink only when met in-game option.

Sounds good to me.

- Scipio

Avenoct · September 20, 2001, 19:08

Another oddity of this format. I'll know more when my turn comes up.

I just thought of something...did you choose 'play MP scenario' or 'load MP scenario' Scipio? It may be that you chose 'play' and hence were re-prompted for the input. I'll have to experiment with that a bit.

-Smack

Scipio Centaurus · September 20, 2001, 19:35

Don't remember the exact sequence and terminology. I had to try a few times because my first attempt wound up being a solo play version. I think I started down the SCENARIO menu branch instead of the MULTIPLAYER menu branch. Or maybe it was the other way around...

There is a scenario editor option to force the difficulty level.

- Scipio

Avenoct · September 20, 2001, 19:44

I'm glad I'm not the kind of person who has to control all the variables before I can act. Especially wrt the PC and multiplayer I feel like a blind engineer trying to design a perfect lense.

johndmuller · September 20, 2001, 22:32

Turn 2301 to Smack / Outlaws

Should I have seen anything unusual, cause I didn't - even when looking at the tech tree (although I didn't look too hard - thought there were going to be new names, but didn't see them in there) - I'll poke arond more thoroughly tomorrow.

I only copied all those .pcx files into the Sid M's.. directory.

I copied the game into a regular folder in the "saves" subdirectory in the same way I would a regular game. Started to open it as you said via the "Scenarios", but it was looking for a .sc file I think, so I just opened it like a regular MP game. I'm ready to go to sleep, so I won't be doing any more experiments until then.

Do you in fact really need to put the .sav file in with the alpha.txt file and the others from your scenario download?

I guess I'll just assume that I wasn't supposed to see any dramatic differences yet.

Avenoct · September 21, 2001, 07:57

I forced the game back into Aldebaran, but I believe you played on Chiron JohnD... What I can't figure out is which of these is true:

1. You were sent a Chiron save game (ie, Arima saved it as vanilla Smac somehow)?

2. The game indeed does need to be opened in the special Scenario-folder for Aldeb?

3. Some of us are playing as .SC and some as .SAV?

I do know that you were playing Vanilla Smac, because you indeed should have seen unusual techs. When you start up a turn, probably the best thing to do is press F2 and if it Looks at all foreign, it's Aldebaran, so everything's fine.

I think it's best JohnD if you find a way to load and play your turn as Aldebaran before I take my turn. I can force things back into Aldebaran (by playing with Aldebaran installed), but I'm not sure what reprocussions a saved game from two planets will have!

Also, I'll email Arima to see if Arima experienced Smac or Aldeb. It's like playing Telephone...somewhere someone misspoke.

-Smack

johndmuller · September 21, 2001, 08:19

I've tried opening the file a variety of ways and still no joy.

The file I received is a .SAV file. If I tell it I want to play a Scenario, or a multiplayer Scenario, it seems to expect a .SC file - that is, the only files it shows in the various directories have a .SC. That seems reasonable so far, as the .SC files have the various victory conditions, etc., in them.

When I copied the .sav file into the directory with the Aldeb stuff in it, it made no difference. The game still came up with what looks to me like regular SMAC, with the new faction names but otherwise no obvious differences.

There may be a way of navigating the menu choices at the beginning that I didn't try, so if someone who has successfully opened the game would replay their menu selections and pass them on, I'd be happy to follow that script and see what happens.

Avenoct · September 21, 2001, 08:24

I'm tracking this down via email. We'll send a shuttle to get you off Chiron before the PB's fall.

-Smack

Scipio Centaurus · September 21, 2001, 09:42

Could everyone reload and enter their incoming game SAV file (you all should be able to 'load' the SAV files just like any other MP game, BTW). Once into the game turn, see if the new factions' descriptions appear in the datalinks. Also peek into the SE settings - you should see 'Propaganda' and some other new SE options. Also take a look at the F2 screen to see if there are new techs available. Once we find out where the game reverted back to Chiron we can figure out what happened (hopefully). I know I played on Aldebaran because I did have the new SE options and tech. Also the new factions' help text was online. But maybe as the first player, I needed to move the TXT files into the dafault directory prior to saving - I did not do that. In that case, the Planetlovers would be the first player to notice the reversion to Chiron. How about it Qantaga?

- Scipio

Arima · September 21, 2001, 12:06

I was playing under Albaderan, but I loaded the game under Albederan (it is in a seperate folder for me). I just loaded it under SMAC, and it was had Biogenetics as the first tech, which would be impossible.

I would guess that you would physically need to have Aldeberan installed in order to play.

Avenoct · September 21, 2001, 17:52

Test I ran which I'd like someone else to verify:

1. Download 'Foothold' scenario (Aldeb in a scenario form)
2. Start SMAC vanilla version.
3. Start MP scenario-Foothold (making sure to reload non-AI factions for each MP player...but this doesn't matter for the test)
4. Made sure I chose at least 2 factions to be humans
5. Started the game, played turn 1 and saved as a regular game in the same folder. Everything appeared Aldebaran.
6. Loaded the next turn, played, and saved in another folder (just to check)
7. Loaded the next turn, played, verifying that it doesn't matter where the game was saved or loaded...its always Aldebaran.

Notes: make sure to play the turn all the way through 'till you get the prompt for the next players turn automatically.

If someone verifies this, I have no idea how we got Chironized. If it doesn't work, there's a platform or version difference in how SMAC plays with scenarios. Basically I'm saying that if I play the turns all the way through, I can't cause this error. Can you?

-Smack

Here's the Foothold scenario if any want to give it a go.

Scipio Centaurus · September 21, 2001, 18:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Arima
I was playing under Albaderan, but I loaded the game under Albederan (it is in a seperate folder for me). I just loaded it under SMAC, and it was had Biogenetics as the first tech, which would be impossible. I would guess that you would physically need to have Aldeberan installed in order to play.

So, you took the SAV file you received from Qantaga, loaded it and saw Biogentics - a Chiron tech? That means the file was already messed up when you got it. Nothing you could do about it.

Now we need to confirm if Qantaga's incoming SAV file also opens as regular SMAC. If so, then I'm the goat.

- Scipio

Smack, is the Biogentics tech in Aldebaran?

Avenoct · September 21, 2001, 18:27

No biogenetics in Aldebaran. There are a few techs with at least the same name, but they generally appear in the mid to late game.

Arima · September 21, 2001, 18:43

Quote:

Originally posted by Scipio Centaurus

So, you took the SAV file you received from Qantaga, loaded it and saw Biogentics - a Chiron tech? That means the file was already messed up when you got it. Nothing you could do about it.

Now we need to confirm if Qantaga's incoming SAV file also opens as regular SMAC. If so, then I'm the goat.

Yeah. So, just for clarification
Loading file into Aldeberan Engine => Aldeberan Techs
Loading file into vanilla SMAC => SMAC Techs

I loaded it as MP Game, though. Would that influence it?

Scipio Centaurus · September 21, 2001, 19:39

OK. I downloaded the foothold scenario and dumped every file into a folder called Foothold under my SMAC scenario folder. I made sure a plain vanilla alpha.txt file was in the default game directory. The foothold alpha.txt file was in the Foothold scenario folder.

I then fired up a game using the following menu selections:

ALPHA CENTAURI
-> MULTIPLAYER (Selected Hotseat/PBEM service option)
. -> MULTIPLAYER SCENARIO (selected Welcomest.SC)
. . -> TRANSCEND (selected Planetlovers, Syndicate & Nauticon as human factions)

Game started with MP login screen for Planetlovers. I played the Planetlovers turn and checked the SE screen. It was Aldebaran SE. I hit TURN COMPLETE and saved the Planetlovers turn as test1.sav

I restarted SMAC (same alpha.txt setup). I used the following menu options:

ALPHA CENTAURI
-> MULTIPLAYER (Selected Hotseat/PBEM service option)
. -> LOAD MULTIPLAYER GAME (selected test1.sav)

The game started with the login screen for the Syndicate. I played the Syndicate turn and checked the SE screen. It was Aldebaran again. Hit TURN COMPLETE and saved as test2.sav

Repeated for the Nauticons and got Aldebaran again. I'm going to remove the Aldebaran alpha.tx file from the SMAC game directory entirely and try the same test again. I want to verify that Aldebaran comes in even w/o the modified alpha.txt file

I'll check back in later...

Scipio Centaurus · September 21, 2001, 19:56

That's it! I removed the alpha.txt from the Foothold scenario folder and retarted the scenario - vanilla alpha.txt in the default directory - and the game came up as regular SMAC - not Aldebaran. So it looks like everyone must have the moded alpha.txt 'somewhere' in their game directory structure. Is it using the alpha.txt in the same folder as the SC file and/or SAV file in preference to the one in the default directory? Looks like it.

JohnDMuller? Did you have the aldebaran alpha.txt file in the same folder as your SAV file when you played the turn?

Hang on. I want to make sure that the same thing happens to a load from a SAV as a load from a SC file.

Back shortly...

- Scipio

Scipio Centaurus · September 21, 2001, 20:11

OK. I put the Aldebaran alpha.txt file back in the Foothold scenario folder and started the scenario again, with the same human factions. I played the Planetlovers turn and it was Aldebaran rules. I saved the turn and exited.

I then removed the Aldebaran alpha.txt file from the Foothold scenario folder. I loaded the first turn SAV file and it loaded up with regular SMAC rules. So it looks like it is using the alpha.txt in the same folder as the SAV or SC file in preference to the alpha.txt in the default directory.

Strange... that seems to contradict my experience when desiging the Waterworld scenario several months back. That was a SMAX scenario though. Anyway, there we have it.

JohnDMuller try your turn again with the Aldebaran alpha.txt file (and all the other Aldbaran TXT files) in the same folder as the turn SAV file.

- Scipio

Scipio Centaurus · September 21, 2001, 20:29

Ahhh.. I scanned back through the thread and I see that you already tried my previous idea John, so I'm guessing that someone prior to you loaded the turn under regular SMAC and saved it off that way.

Smack do you think that we can 'uncorrupt' the game by forcing a later SAV open under Aldebaran rules? Or would it just be better to simply start over, now that we have a better idea of what's going on.

BTW, it looks like you had it right with your original install instructions. Sorry I mislead everyone.

- Scipio

johndmuller · September 21, 2001, 20:37

Quote:

JohnDMuller try your turn again with the Aldebaran alpha.txt file (and all the other Aldbaran TXT files) in the same folder as the turn SAV file.
-Smack

That was one of the variations I tried earlier, with the .sav file in a subdirectory (of the "scenarios" subdir.) called "aldebsmp" (with all the .txt files in that directory also) in which arrangement it didn't work.

When you guys are talking about using .sc files, does that work at any time other than the initial creation of the game?

Which of you are using Macs and which are using intel style PC's?

Are you all satisfied that everyone before me experienced Aldebaron and not vanilla smac?

When you talk of full installs and aldebaron engines, do you mean more than the existence of the aldebaron .txt files in the Sid Meiers AC root directory? (and probably also the graphics files)? It looks like there are only 7 non-unique files in the aldeb download; it wouldn't be a horrendous deal to switch them back and forth if necessary, but it would be a bit of a PIA and might have inadvertent side effects on some other games as I would probably forget to do it sometime. In other words, a more elegant solution would be preferred.

It may matter exactly what the specific path to the aledbaron .txt files was in the original creation of the game, it may try to find the same path on subsequent machines and either use the proper files or not depending on whether or not it finds them.

More later, but let me know some of these answers if you know them.

(I'll probably try out the file thing unless someone tells me I'll really be sorry.)

J