Please do NOT pirate Civ3!

[yin26]

As many of you might know, I have been both one of Civ3's greatest supporters and now one of its greatest doubters. However, I want to go on record as saying one thing:

DO NOT PIRATE CIV3!

Now let's go through some of the excuses people have been using:

• I don't have enough money: Too bad. Get a job. If you are too young to get a job, make a deal with your parents that you'll mow the lawn for 3 months or something. This is how I got my first miniature pac-man game back in the early 80's.
• There is no demo, so how can I test the game?: You don't. You rely on some trusted people to tell you what's up. Surely there are a few people you can trust. If not, write off this game and the people who don't release a demo.
• The release date is much later in my part of the world and I don't want to wait: If you have already placed your pre-order, I'm sure most people will look the other way. If you haven't, do NOT pirate Civ3.
• I have already pre-ordered and don't want to wait the few extra days: Again, not sure why you can't wait the few days considering the ripped version will be weak and buggy most likely...
• Firaxis has cheated me before...not this time!: Grow up. If you feel this way about Firaxis, simply walk away from them. Plenty of other games out there from great companies.
• IF THERE'S NO MP, THE GAME ISN'T COMPLETE!: Then wait for the MP to be released. If Infogrames makes it so you are forced to buy the original game and the x-pack, don't buy either. Walk away. Or, wait until they are in the bargain bin in a bundled version for $19.99. You can rest assured that at that price, the profit is very, very small.

I'm sure there are some that I missed, but the point is this: If you feel Civ3 is good enough (or potentially good enough) to pirate, it's good enough to pay for or to wait until it meets your price/feature level.

I for one am walking away from Civ3. I will re-evaluate it 6 months from now. Once the first few rounds of patches and the MP stuff is all sorted out, it might well be worth my money. Until then, even a pirated version would take something valuable from me...TIME! At this point, I don't think Civ3 even deserves my time, so I will be on other boards playing EU for a few months, occasionally peeking in here to see what's up.

Again, do NOT pirate Civ3. Even if you don't repect the result, please at least respect the people who make a living off the product enough NOT to steal it from them. Afterall, if a gaming company goes out of business, it should be because it didn't make the customer happy NOT because some lame customers have easy access to some downloads.

And anybody on these boards who admits to or supports pirating Civ3 should be given one warning then banned. As much as I hate companies trying to rip off the customer, I also hate fans trying to rip off companies.

[FrostyBoy]

you really need to relax and stop talking so much

your personality is very extreme on the internet

[saracen31]

Agreed, Yin. I used to be ambivalent about pirating, but since getting into software development myself, I can see where it really hits home. The game industry is in enough trouble right now - let's support Firaxis.

[yin26]

...let's support Firaxis

Or yourself by not spending money/time on something you feel doesn't deserve it. Firaxis has made its decisions, but no company deserves to have its worked pirated.

[Rasbelin]

Originally posted by yin26

Again, do NOT pirate Civ3.

I totally agree with you. It's really much more
fair to buy a copy, than travel to Tallinn or Vyborg.

"If you make even one illegal copy of
Civ III, I'll come and smash you like potatoe and
kick your ass, so that it will hurt a lot more than buying Civ III."

[Nenad]

I'm all against piracy, and I completely agree with you guys.
However, I just want to say that, without piracy, I would never get a chance to play even Civ I.
I'm afraid that this would be the same with Civ III.
I suppose (and I hope) that my case is just one of few.

[marcuspeddle]

I'm with Yin. What makes me even angrier than people ripping off software are friends who see your latest game and then say, "Hey, can I copy that CD?" I paid $50 for a game and they think I'm going to let them get it from me for free? I've pissed off some friends like that.

Snoopy,
Yin doesn't need to relax - he's got a valid point that needs to be expressed. Pirating software is a crime.

[Earthling7]

I have waited for CivIII since 1997. That's when I saw the first speculations on what it would become. Oh, the early days of the Internet.

I read both manuals for CivI and II, and as I'm interested in history, they were better than a hospital-romance. Especiallt the CivI manual.

Enough said. I'm buying this baby, LE and all!

[Skanky Burns]

Yin, I couldnt agree with you more

[Provost Harrison]

Don't get me wrong, I intend to buy Civ3 when it becomes available in this country, but if there is a considerable delay in getting hold of the game in this country, I will download and play the game until I can buy it. I have bought previous games from Firaxis and I intend to buy this one. But if there is a sizeable gap between release dates, I will download it to fill the gap, and you can spare me the sanctimonious claptrap...

[Urban Ranger]

Reviews have failed me, suckered me into buying horrible crap such as Majesty. I have lost piles of money on games I hardly play.

While it is very likely that I am going to buy Civ 3, I want to evaluate it first. If I like it, I'll pay for a full version.

I realise that we should not rip off software developers, but we should not be ripped off, either. What is fair is fair.

[Provost Harrison]

I think in this case UR at least the game has a decent pedigree. Chances are that it is going to be damn fine, despite the pessimism around here from some of the civ purists. God knows what they must have been like with CtP in development

[Adagio]

As it looks now I will surely get a pirated version of the game as soon as posible...BUT that's just to get the game as fast as posible as soon as I can buy the game (some months after the release in USA) I will buy the game, no doubt about that, unless ofcause the game sux bug tiime, which I just can't imagine about a Civ game

[redstar1]

I fully intend to download it. I'll get my hands on a CD image beofre it even hits the shops in the US. I'll download it, burn it. Then report back here on how it plays, what it looks like etc. I do this with a lot of games. In fact almost every big name release. Have to say though that if I play the game to the point of liking it I will more than likely purchase as cracked games are difficult to patch, and as we all know, patches come soon after release. I use this method as a way of 'testing' the game. Demo's are crap. I want to see what happens later in the game. I want to experience the full game before I hand over cash. It is impossible to do this with computer games. We get the chance to test drive cars, bikes, listen to albums etc. £30 isn't much for me since I have a good job, but thats not the point. I've been playing Maddens 2002 for 3 weeks and I intend to but it when it is released. It is quality.

I'm sorry if this hurts the developers but it is up to the publishers and the game stores to provide potential customers with the ability to try out the software first. Magazine/Internet reviews are great but I do not regard them as a fair way to guage the quality of a game. Obviously with a game like CIV 3 which is massive, will have a lot of fans before it has been released, and will more than likely be fantastic, games magazines may review through rose tinted glasses. I don't want to know how good the graphics are, how good the sound is. I want to know what gaming experience this offers me, why I should buy CIV3, why i should play it instead of CTP3 or Age of Empires. I can only judge this by playing the game, and I can only test the game by 'stealing' it.

Dave

[Aco]

Why are 'we' even bothering to say the obvious?

Stealing is illegal.. and it doesn't matter whether we're talking about a game/music cd/book/whatever.

Reward the people who create things.. just pay for their efforts.

There really isn't a different way.. unless you want to be a criminal.


Thats all there is..

Aco

[Asmodean]

I for one would like to know, what it is that makes you guys have doubts over Civ3. Is it the missing MP - is it the lack of seriously improved graphics - what?

Off course I'll buy the game. As I have done with all other games I have wanted - ever!!!

Piracy is illegal, and should be condemned.

Asmodean

[redstar1]

Of course stealing is illegal, noone is disputing that. And if the police arrive at my door I'll hold my hands up to it. However, software piracy will NOT go away. A good deal can be done to reduce its impact. Gamers need to be able to trust not the developers, but the publishers. Developers don't want to release a game thats half tested and full of bugs. They are professionals who take pride in their work and who don't want to finish a game, have a big release party then spend the next 12 months finishing it. I have been around the warez community for a number of years and I think I can safely say that the vast majority of people use warez as a means of trying out software to see if they want to purchase it. Yes a few people make money out of it but if people buy the latest release from a market stall on a sunday afternoon well then thats their stupidity and their problem.

Imagine if you will buying a portable radio. You want to listen to the football results on a saturday afternoon. The radio works perfectly, except for the little red on light, which doesn't work properly. Not a big deal. It doesn't affect the functionality of the radio, but you take it back anyway. Now remember the last time you bought a game only to find that a part of it is not finished. You can take it back but you can't get a replacement. You have to wait for a patch. Not everyone has the internet, nor not everyone on a 56k modem is prepared to download a 5mb+ patch. Nor should we have to wait 2 months to see it on the front cover cd of a £5 magazine that failed to mention the bugs in the first place.

No, I don't trust games publishers. I don't trust what it says on the box. I want to play games before I buy them. No disrespect to the developers who do a damn good job under tight deadlines and I know that piracy affects you as well. As long as games are released half-arsed, piracy will remain a large problem.

Dave

[Asmodean]

Originally posted by redstar1
As long as games are released half-arsed, piracy will remain a large problem.

That is still no excuse for breaking the law. the law is the law, and that's that. Just because a man is an arsehole, dosn't make stealing from him any more right, than from any other man.

And anyone who can't understand that, should take a good look at themselves, before saying that they are honest, law-abiding people.

Asmodean

[redstar1]

When did I say I, or anyone else who pirates software was a law-abiding citizen. What I said referred to the source of a lot of piracy, the reason for it and a possible solution to it.

Didn't call anyone an arsehole either.

The law is the law indeed.

I don't know you, but I'm willing to hedge my bets that you've broken a law in your lifetime. Perhaps even have a piece of copyrighted material on your PC *shock horror*. Bet you have a background image for windows yeah? Do you own copyrights of the image? Thought not. If I'm wrong my apologies, but your high and mighty attitude doesn't change a thing.

I'd actually be very interested to hear Firaxis' views on the subject of piracy, and what the indiustry is doing about it. I have it from reasonably good sources that some pblishers 'leak' games to the warez community. Its a fantastic and free was of getting some heavy testing done.

Dave

[Executor]

How many of the people here actually bought their copy of Windows or Office? Just wondering.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Asmodean


That is still no excuse for breaking the law. the law is the law, and that's that. Just because a man is an arsehole, dosn't make stealing from him any more right, than from any other man.

And anyone who can't understand that, should take a good look at themselves, before saying that they are honest, law-abiding people.

Asmodean

Hmmm, we are all perfectly aware it happens. But seriously, and this comes back to the post above by Executor. I could not afford to buy Office or Windows at the cost of them, especially the full versions I would require for when I built my computer. I bet you most people do it, copy it from work and the like. Perhaps this is why microsoft charge so much for these things because businesses still pay for it. But the kind of money to pay for these is beyond my means. I need some of these things for my computer to work (ie windows) but I am not willing to pay the price. It is all very easy to be sanctimonious at times, but in reality, it is easier said than done. Microsoft has worked it's way around the problem by making it's money from businesses. The only way the public ever have these programs is if bundled with the computer or acquired from work.

I am willing to buy where feasible, eg, computer games are relatively cheap to buy and don't begrudge the money for how little I buy them.

Remember Ashmodean, sometimes laws were not always put there for the wellbeing of everyone but to allow traps for the rich to get richer.

[Solver]

In most cases, I agree with Yin. Civ 3 will be a great game, and it's surely worht to pay to Firaxis, in hope for seeing future games/xpacks. I also agree with all the reasons stated by Yin, but there's another. And this is why I will *first* get a pirate copy - a normal one later.

They request resolution is 1024x768. I want it 800x600. I will get a pirate disk, and see if it installs/runs on my machine. If yes, I get the normal one. If not , no Civ 3.

[Nikolai]

I agree with you, yin! Pirating is not good! But abadonware, on the other hand...

Yes, I know someone wont agree with me there, but abadonware that is very old, is not for sale, and then I think it is OK...!!!

[Grumbold]

The UK has a very liberal software returns policy, now supported by some companies who go further and allow a 10 day no questions asked grace period. With that in place I have never felt any need to pirate any software. However if I lived elsewhere then I almost certainly would use piracy as one possible means to evaluate games since I return about 1 in 4 purchases. The people who publish the best games also churn out some utter rubbish at times. They do not deserve to profit from them at the customers expense.

[yin26]

Hmmm. I haven't lived in the States for 5 years. How are the return policies on software? I used to LOVE Electronic Boutique for their solid return policy. And I didn't just keep the games, either, on my HD. If they sucked, I exchanged them...as it should be.

Now I'm stuck overseas and can't return stuff. I miss those great days of no questions asked returns...

[Gramphos]

Originally posted by yin26

• There is no demo, so how can I test the game?: You don't. You rely on some trusted people to tell you what's up. Surely there are a few people you can trust. If not, write off this game and the people who don't release a demo.

If you know someone that have bought the game you can sneak into his house and ask if you just can play a few turns.
He says: "No, I've paid for this game. I'll play all my spare time."
-But you have to eat sometime.
-Okay, you can play for half an hour when I eat.
-Thank you!
You start to play and when that half-hour is over you run to the nearest retailer of Civ3 and buys your own copy.
Or you can simply buy the game without playing it first because it will be so good, but you must NOT pirate it.

[monkspider]

I agree with you wholeheartedly Yin, well put.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Asmodean
That is still no excuse for breaking the law. the law is the law, and that's that.

Laws are not the same as justice or fairness. Often people need to fight against these tyrannical laws to get them changed.

Locally the laws covering consumer protection are totally inadequate. I can't return an item even if it doesn't work as advertised - not mandated by the law, anyway.

A lot of crap is happening, I am not going to sit down and take it.

[monkspider]

Although urban ranger makes a good point, many great revolutionaries such as Martin Luthor King were technically breaking the law. I don't see what the big deal is, it's only $40.00. I have had lunches that cost more than this. Civ III is something that you will never forget. Just buy it for pete's sake, rather than have some buggy, sound-missing, pirated version. If you feel deeply enough about civ to actually be posting at a Civ related forum (much less, reach Emperor status, Mr. ranger ) then I'm sure spending $40.00 on such a long awaited sequel should be a no-brainer.

[Ozymandous]

Originally posted by yin26
Hmmm. I haven't lived in the States for 5 years. How are the return policies on software? I used to LOVE Electronic Boutique for their solid return policy. And I didn't just keep the games, either, on my HD. If they sucked, I exchanged them...as it should be.

Now I'm stuck overseas and can't return stuff. I miss those great days of no questions asked returns...

EB still has a great return policy, which I used to return Tropico, Red Alert 2, Soldier of FOrtune and some other games that didn't like up to the hype.

I am not sure but EBWorld should also have a good policy on this, although the customer may have to pay shipping & handling.

Luckily I work about 3 miles from an EB and there is another on my way home so I always purchase my games there. I'll return any game that is buggy or fails to provide anything it promised be it Civ3, Moo3, Pools of Radiance, Soldier of Fortune2, etc.