Privateer unit, musketmen and battleship stats

[Saint Marcus]

Someone probably already noticed, but:

In some Apolyton screenshots a city appears to be building a "Privateer" unit. Sounds pretty cool to me! Back to Colonization!!

Also, the Musketmen has 3-4-1 stats and the Battleship 24(8)-20-4

[Patriqvium]

I never played Colonization, so exactly what was the Privateer back then? A ship?

[Saint Marcus]

yeah. and a really cool one too! You could control it, but your enemy couldn't see it was sailing under your flag (it had a pirate flag). In other words, you could raid enemy shipping lines without fear of the consequences. Of course, your enemy would do the same thing.

[Patriqvium]

Originally posted by Mark L
yeah. and a really cool one too! You could control it, but your enemy couldn't see it was sailing under your flag (it had a pirate flag). In other words, you could raid enemy shipping lines without fear of the consequences. Of course, your enemy would do the same thing.

Nasty...

[Wexu]

I would LOVE to see privateers in Civ3! They were great in Colonization and I definetly think they'd be great in Civ3.

[Bleyn]

IIRC, historically privateers were not quite the same as pirates.

Privateers were independant ships operating under Letters of Marquis from a particular nation. They did not have to fly the flag of that nation normally, but when challenged by warships of another nation they had documentation showing them to be authorized agents of a nation-state. Of course, all this really meant was that if captured they would typically be treated as an enemy vessel-of-war instead of a pirate. But, hey, being alive and in a P.O.W. camp was better than being hung by a yardarm until dead. The advantage to this arrangement was that for a poor nation it was cheaper to issue a few letters of marquis to a few captains willing to act as commerce raiders than to actually raise their own navy, especially since the smart monarch probably charged a fee for issuing the letters of marquis, and taxed the booty seized by the privateers. The monarch also had the option of disavowing any knowledge of the actions of the privateer if they started to become too embarassing. The only real risk for the privateer, other than capture, was that some nations choose to view privateers as pirates and killed them anyway.

Pirates, on the other hand, were not operating under authorization of any nation and were considered outlaws worthy only of death if captured.

It is a somewhat fine distinction, but an important one if it was your neck on the line.

[Saint Marcus]

Of course there's a difference. But in Colonization the Privateers operated under a pirate flag, so you can't see who it belongs to.

[Shiva]

Originally posted by Mark L
Of course there's a difference. But in Colonization the Privateers operated under a pirate flag, so you can't see who it belongs to.

Hehe that would sure add to the fun in a mp game of Civ3. It would be nice if they did something like it with a guerrilla unit also. It would make mp more tense if you have no idea who is messing with you in a cold war.

[Ralf]

Originally posted by Mark L
But in Colonization the Privateers operated under a pirate flag, so you can't see who it belongs to.

If they have included an anonymous privateer-unit in Civ-3, then the attack/defence-stats must be relatively weaker (you use it mainly against civil trade/cargo-ships and for blocking ocean trade-routes, anyway). Otherwise this unit becomes too powerful for its own good. Also, killing privateers cannot be considered an act of war.

Finally, there should be a risk involved, that your hidden identity actually gets revealed. Lets say: if an attacked civ manage to kill off two privateers of the same origin, within one and the same turn - then the privateers true identy gets revealed. And then that happens, the harassed civ can consider it as an act of war, by the now exposed civ.

[Saint Marcus]

If they have included an anonymous privateer-unit in Civ-3, then the attack/defence-stats must be relatively weaker (you use it mainly against civil trade/cargo-ships and ocean trade-routes, anyway). Otherwise this unit becomes too versatile/powerful for its own good. Also, killing privateers cannot be considered an valid act of war.

Exactly how it was in Colonization. Privateers were weaker than Galleons, Frigates and Man-o-Wars, but more powerfull than Caravals and Merchant Ships.

[Col Bigspear]

Was Drake a privateer?. I remember watching something on Discovery Channel where Queen Liz employed Drake to raid Spanish Shipping in the Carribian, that makes him a Privateer does it not ?.

[Shiva]

Originally posted by Col Bigspear
Was Drake a privateer?. I remember watching something on Discovery Channel where Queen Liz employed Drake to raid Spanish Shipping in the Carribian, that makes him a Privateer does it not ?.

Yes. He'd have a letter of Marquee inabling him to lawfully (at least in Englands eyes) raid Spanish shipping. The Queen would get a cut of the loot.

[Col Bigspear]

Cool. I remember getting a letter of Marquee in Microphose's Pirates GOLD, but I was about 10 and never bothered reading the text all I wanted was a spanish War Galleon, I used to attack them with my Shi*ty sloop and then get all Pis*ed off when I lost . Ah those were the days

[Mars]

That privateer unit sounds really cool. I hope they put everything in that you guys said is put in there. I hope that the stealth fighter and bomber in civ3 are actually invisible to the other players like the submarines.

[SerapisIV]

Yeah the stealth fighters can be as invisible as the F-117A that was shot down in Kosovo.

[d_dudy]

Originally posted by SerapisIV
Yeah the stealth fighters can be as invisible as the F-117A that was shot down in Kosovo.

then how about it's invisible 95% of the time and whenever one is shot down the local towns people are seen dancing on it?

[Shiva]

Originally posted by d_dudy


then how about it's invisible 95% of the time and whenever one is shot down the local towns people are seen dancing on it?

[Fiil]

But isn't the point with privateers that you can't control them, they are equipped by private persons - not a state or leader of a state. Though their leaders/nations got part of loot the privateers were never controlled and used strategicly in naval warfare. They were never sent out with a specific mission nor did they ever defeat any enemy fleet of importance.

I would like the pirate/privateer factor to be something an ungarded transport could encounter, much like the 'ship lost at sea' factor for the triremes. The factor could be decreaced by the amount of friendly warship activity in the region (not that hard to implement) and increased by any enemy activity.

I know it's too late - so don't answer that!

But I just don't like privateers in my civ game just like I didn't like slavers in CTP. Units are armies/fleets with great impact on history!

(I know privateers played an important role in the dutch war of independance - but not against anything that in civterms could be considered a warship or transport)

[Grumbold]

Privateers were the commerce raiders of their day. If we are going to see attacks on trade then it really ought to span the whole timeline. Having a specially handled privateer unit available in one age but no raiders available in others would be odd.

[jdd2007]

well looks like this got a and IMO the privateer will be a good adition to the CivilizationIII fleet.

[Your.Master]

One thing that you seem to have forgotten is that in colonization a ship was rarely destroyed, it was merely sent back to the country (or, once built, a New World drydock) for repairs. To my knowledge, the chance of destroying a ship was random but influenced by the relative strengths of the ships. The privateer just had the advantage of stealing the enemy ship's stuff (trade was manual in Colonization and your main, often only, source of income, aside from goody huts which were worse than civs and razed native huts, which you can't depend upon what with the sheer strength of the Native nations) when they were damaged, and blocking sea lanes. Unless Civ 3's naval combat becomes more like Colonization, I can't see Privateers being a good idea (but maybe I'm just blind).

[Mihai]

IIRC in Colonisation Privateers were wearing the black flag all the time, but if they attack you a message let you know which country they are.
In Civ3 it could be like this : once built you don't have control of the unit, it could not even appair on the map, but if you are at war or in very bad relation with a country your Prvateers attack their marchant ships and give you a %. It would look for the attacked civ somehow like gold loose to crime. You could order your Prvateers to attack the ships of a country that you are not at war, but you have then a chance that this get you at war with that civ (when they find out who's that Privateers).
But I think that in Civ3 the Privateers will be just a civlike naval unit with smaller attack/defence valute than a Frigate but with a great movement.

[Triped]

Mihai, I like your idea. Things always get interesting when you can attack your enemies without them knowing

[Sarxis]

Privateer= oceans of kewlness!

[Mars]

It would be too confusing not to be in control of the privateer. i think it should just be in the control of your nation, with the other nations not knowing what it is. It would be too annoying not to be in control of your own units.

[Sarxis]

Absolutely agree with you! CIV is NOT the game I want automation in- I want total and absolute dictatorship over every pebble and iota of matter in my empire.

That includes neutrinos!!

[Roman]

Originally posted by Anunikoba
Absolutely agree with you! CIV is NOT the game I want automation in- I want total and absolute dictatorship over every pebble and iota of matter in my empire.

That includes neutrinos!!

LOL, but I agree.

[Roman]

The privateer unit sound like fun.