Emigration/Refugees

Sava · September 26, 2001, 14:02

I think Civ games need these issues addressed. America is a nation of immigrants and it didn't follow the civ's food growth = population growth model. Well, no one followed that model, but that's a different thread.

I think when large cities are being attacked, people should flee in the form of refugee units that are AI controlled. These units would be a different, reserved color, and would flock to the nearest safe city. This unit type could also be an "emigrant" unit, where if your people are unhappy, starving, or suffering from disease, they would flee the country and go to a nation that accepts immigrants.

Akron · September 26, 2001, 14:13

I always thought the traditional population model based on food was wrong, but it doesn't look like its gonna change any time soon. Hopefully, Civ 4 will have a more advanced population model that includes immigration.

Madine · September 26, 2001, 14:26

I think that immigration and emigration would be good logical extensions of happiness and culture. People would tend to leave cities with low happiness and join happy culturally rich cities. Although I think it would be better handled abstactly than with units.

Iceius · September 26, 2001, 14:34

Quote:

Originally posted by SoulAssassin
I think Civ games need these issues addressed. America is a nation of immigrants and it didn't follow the civ's food growth = population growth model. Well, no one followed that model, but that's a different thread.

I think when large cities are being attacked, people should flee in the form of refugee units that are AI controlled. These units would be a different, reserved color, and would flock to the nearest safe city. This unit type could also be an "emigrant" unit, where if your people are unhappy, starving, or suffering from disease, they would flee the country and go to a nation that accepts immigrants.

Your ideas are intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Rakki · September 26, 2001, 14:39

I think another thing that could be interesting is the effects of internal migration.... let's say if there's two cities that you own, and both are about equal size. The difference however is that one of the cities has a much better culture rating (maybe it's your capital) while the other is just crap (you've been busy building military units with it)

Then what should happen is that the inferior city starts losing population (to a minimum so it doesn't actually "disappear"90 to the culturally superior city. This would reflect the tendency for people to migrate to where there's better jobs and opportunities... let's say a 5% chance each turn that a population point decides to head off to the big city - but perhaps increased if the disparity is really really big.

This would apply even to cities from different civilizations..... unless you close the border or something in the diplomacy screen.

d_dudy · September 26, 2001, 14:46

Quote:

Originally posted by Akron
I always thought the traditional population model based on food was wrong, but it doesn't look like its gonna change any time soon. Hopefully, Civ 4 will have a more advanced population model that includes immigration.

realize your complaints about civ3 have gone unheeded? start complaining about civ4 today!

i think we need a civ4 forum

jdd2007 · September 26, 2001, 15:39

well i think that it would be hard to represent emigration, but civ3 has adressed the issue with the idea that civs with less culture lose cities to civs with more culture...

Asesino_Virtual · September 26, 2001, 16:39

Do u remember that funny thing in CIV I which when u had a city with a lot of luxuries, others citizens (of other empire) leaved their country to live in your city? Well, this will be implemented in CIV III.

So, problem solved.

Saint Marcus · September 27, 2001, 04:27

There is migration, if your culture is high enough citizens from other civs will join yours.

campmajor! · September 27, 2001, 04:35

Quote:

Originally posted by Asesino_Virtual
Do u remember that funny thing in CIV I which when u had a city with a lot of luxuries, others citizens (of other empire) leaved their country to live in your city?

Huh? No, I don't recall that....

Skanky Burns · September 27, 2001, 05:09

I recall in one game of Civ I, an entire Zulu city (on another continent, that i hadnt even explored!!) defected over to my superior Roman culture!! LOL!! It would have been even funier if they didnt soon after capture it back... along with gunpower...

aaglo · September 27, 2001, 05:41

Mr SielunSalamurhaaja (=SoulAssasin in finnish)

I have thought the same idea about refugees... I've done that very much due to the recent situation in Afghanistan.
There were refugees in SMACX; when human faction invaded an alien colony (or vice versa), the population of that colony was reduced to 1, and the rest was turned to refugees = 1 colony pod (=settler) per 2 population units. This could be implemented to the game with milder consequenses. Like population of the conquered city would drop to half with x number of refugees...

Or whatever... I believe that Firaxis has thought of this...

Fresno · September 27, 2001, 11:03

All former European colonies were built by immigrants. The Old World is formed by migration as well. Without Roman soldiers settling everywhere, French and Spanish would be speaking Celtic today. I agree, refugees and emigration should be in the game as well. However, I don't think it will be done

.

Dauphin · September 27, 2001, 11:29

Quote:

Originally posted by campmajor!

Huh? No, I don't recall that....

Entire cities would revolt and join your empire....

Trifna · September 27, 2001, 12:21

I totally agree that the inclusion of the immigration factor would be a big plus. Now, the question is how to do it to be precise enough to be well included, and as general enough to not be complicated... We need to remember that immigration also has effects on culture, which doesn't simplifies the thing.

Inverse Icarus · September 27, 2001, 12:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Iceius

Your ideas are intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

if you're going to quote Homer J. Simpson give him the creit

Faboba · September 27, 2001, 12:28

Quote:

Originally posted by SoulAssassin
I think Civ games need these issues addressed. America is a nation of immigrants and it didn't follow the civ's food growth = population growth model. Well, no one followed that model, but that's a different thread.

I think when large cities are being attacked, people should flee in the form of refugee units that are AI controlled. These units would be a different, reserved color, and would flock to the nearest safe city. This unit type could also be an "emigrant" unit, where if your people are unhappy, starving, or suffering from disease, they would flee the country and go to a nation that accepts immigrants.

Hmmmmm

They have to think about balance as well as realism.

Think about it - you can make an enemy lose population by just attacking their city whether you win or not. Does that sound like something which can be exploited to you?

Sava · September 27, 2001, 20:53

Quote:

Originally posted by Faboba

Hmmmmm

They have to think about balance as well as realism.

Think about it - you can make an enemy lose population by just attacking their city whether you win or not. Does that sound like something which can be exploited to you?

It just means that you can't be lazy and leave 2 phalanx in a city when there are enemy armies nearby. Most of Civ combat is done army vs city, where in the real world, most battles are out on a front. As with any type of change like this, there are going to be changes in strategies that you need to think about.

'If I lose some population if an enemy attacks my city, then I should defend the area outside the city so the people would be safe'

Wow what an idea!

Rome never even had troops inside the city, defending it. And it stood the test of time (no pun intended). Present day American cities don't have troops quartered in them. It's more a question of gameplay preference. I prefer more strategy. Troops inside the city should cause unhappiness, not prevent it.