Firaxis: Describe the manual that is included with Civ 3? - Page 2

Earthling7 · October 3, 2001, 12:30

If you treehuggers are American, your president would be ashamed of you. Anyways, any respectable book publisher uses forests grown to be used and replanted.

mactbone · October 3, 2001, 13:05

Quote:

I seriously doubt that the AI programmers and graphics designers would be involved in writing the manual. Every person knows his/her place, and they have dedicated people doing this. If you don't like the idea of background info in the manual, you must hate the CivI and CivII manuals.

Yep, I would assume the guys doing the manuals are Professional Writers. Hehehehe, THAT'S MY MAJOR!!! Wheeeeee
!!

Dan Magaha FIRAXIS · October 3, 2001, 14:23

Just flipped through it, it weighs in at 235 pages, and is just over 13 ounces. Don't ask me what percentage of post-consumer recycled paper the pages consist of, because I haven't finished my lab analysis of the thing yet.

Dan

Chowlett · October 3, 2001, 14:29

Yeah baby! A proper paper manual, and a hefty one at that. Quite unusual these days, and oh-so-welcome. Dan, the man with the news, has come through again!

Pembleton · October 3, 2001, 14:32

Well the number of pages can be deceiving, like this strat guide I have that has 300 pages with about 25 words per page, but I trust that this manual will have more real content.

Haphazard · October 3, 2001, 15:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS
Just flipped through it, it weighs in at 235 pages, and is just over 13 ounces.

Looks like Civ3 isn't going to arrive in one of those DVD size cases then

Ralf · October 3, 2001, 15:11

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS
Just flipped through it, it weighs in at 235 pages, and is just over 13 ounces.

A comparison: The Civ-2 manual had 196 pages, SMAC: 204 pages and Europa Universalis: 86 pages (small types and reduced contents though, in order to fit in that DVD-sized case).

Earthling7 · October 3, 2001, 15:19

Quote:

Originally posted by Haphazard
Looks like Civ3 isn't going to arrive in one of those DVD size cases then

Thank God, or Sid, or Dan or whatever

Seeker · October 3, 2001, 15:39

Good. I like beefy manuals.

CivIV will be a DVD though I bet.

I am simply assuming that CivIII will be the best selling strategy game of the year in order to justify the next step in say 4 years...

Ralf · October 3, 2001, 16:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Seeker
CivIV will be a DVD though I bet.

No thats not likely, unless this particular DVD-case is twice as thick as normal, and with one single roomy compartment. Remember; 235 pages. Again; compare with Europa Universalis there they had to reduce the paper-manual to only 86 pages, in order to squeese it within a regular thin DVD-case.

---------- Edited:

Oops! Sorry. Civ-IV.

Tventano · October 3, 2001, 16:02

Quote:

A comparison: The Civ-2 manual had 196 pages, SMAC: 204 pages and Europa Universalis: 86 pages (small types and reduced contents though, in order to fit in that DVD-sized case).

My copy of EU has 128 pages. But lots of needed information is missing, even the table of contents and the index.

CivI had 128 pages, plus a seperate technical supplement of 13 pages

Colonization had 132 with a 12 page technical supplement.

So the supplied information confirms my trust in the developers of CivIII.

Lorizael · October 3, 2001, 16:19

Quote:

Originally posted by Earthling7

Thank God, or Sid, or Dan or whatever

Sid is god. Didn't you know that?

October 3, 2001, 16:27

Woohooo!! this rocks. does it have a fold out tech tree in it Dan??

Ozymandous · October 3, 2001, 16:33

Let's just hope both the regular and LE versions of the game have the same manual.

Earthling7 · October 3, 2001, 16:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Lorizael
Sid is god. Didn't you know that?

As Civilization seems to be our world, and Sid created it... I guess you're right.

Nemo · October 3, 2001, 16:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Earthling7
Big fat manual, like they shipped with CivI & II with info on the game, but also a lesson in history

here here!

Nemo · October 3, 2001, 16:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS
Just flipped through it, it weighs in at 235 pages, and is just over 13 ounces. Don't ask me what percentage of post-consumer recycled paper the pages consist of, because I haven't finished my lab analysis of the thing yet.

Dan

ALL RIGHT!!!!

October 3, 2001, 17:31

Quote:

Let's just hope both the regular and LE versions of the game have the same manual.

I guess I should refine my earlier wager - I bet a copy of civ3 that only the LE comes with the "beefy" manual. Regular comes with a beefy .pdf, but I could be wrong.

Quote:

Sid is god. Didn't you know that?

Merely part of the pantheon (and the extent to which Brian Reynolds makes this so is up to debate. . .)

As for tree farms . . .
I am aware of the existence of tree farms. However, I lived near a paper mill once, and seen plenty of others in poor Louisiana towns. There is no such thing as an environmentally friendly paper mill. But who cares about such things as long as they're only put near African-American communities and trailer parks, right? So long as you get your "beefy" manual, right?

Jaybe · October 3, 2001, 18:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Mister Pleasant

I guess I should refine my earlier wager - I bet a copy of civ3 that only the LE comes with the "beefy" manual. Regular comes with a beefy .pdf, but I could be wrong.
. . .
As for tree farms . . .
I am aware of the existence of tree farms. However, I lived near a paper mill once, and seen plenty of others in poor Louisiana towns. There is no such thing as an environmentally friendly paper mill. But who cares about such things as long as they're only put near African-American communities and trailer parks, right? So long as you get your "beefy" manual, right?

Oh, the dilemma... Print that beefy manual or just provide a pdf file, which forces people to print it out on their inkjet or laser printer. It's probably more ecology-friendly to provide the beefy manual!!

On the other hand, if I buy a PC (just for Civ3, of course), then I could view the pdf file on my Mac while I am playing the game!

java4me · October 3, 2001, 19:04

WOOT!!!!!!

BEEFY MANUAL!!!

PGM · October 3, 2001, 20:06

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS
Just flipped through it, it weighs in at 235 pages, and is just over 13 ounces.

Great news, thanks.

Ozymandous · October 3, 2001, 21:57

Quote:

Originally posted by Mister Pleasant

As for tree farms . . .
I am aware of the existence of tree farms. However, I lived near a paper mill once, and seen plenty of others in poor Louisiana towns. There is no such thing as an environmentally friendly paper mill. But who cares about such things as long as they're only put near African-American communities and trailer parks, right? So long as you get your "beefy" manual, right?

Is there an environmentally friendly coal/gas power plant? Steel mill? Land fill? No, and they go where the least amount of people complain, which sometimes means they don't get built and then people complain when they don't have enough power. (See California as a recent example)

Some people have to deal with crap so others proper, the best that can happen is to make sure that the same people don't get all the crap to deal with.

Oh, and regarding those "trailer parks" and "African-American communities" well, I grew up in a mobile home and while I am not black, I had friends who were. Guess what, we all worked hard, saved and moved on and out, it wasn't easy but wasn't impossible either. It's not impossible to change your life or surroundings/environment, you only have to WANT to change and not suckle off the government nipple.

Back to topic I still hope both versions get the manual but if not, no big deal, it just means I'll buy the game much later...

(If they want to put out cheap products, i.e manuals, they get less money)

October 4, 2001, 02:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Mister Pleasant
I'd bet a copy of civ3 the actual manual, to the extent there is a manual (as opposed to a strategy guide for sale separately) will be a .pdf and not paper. The bit of paper included will probably explain installation and keyboard shortcuts.

If you want a big chunky waste-o-tree, then buy the effing strategy guide, chumps.

Mister Pleasant(Or not so!):

I'm happy to say to you "You were wrong!"

And, who exactly were you refering to when you said "chumps"?

Dan:
You ARE the man!

The game is starting to sound like it is all that most of us at Apolyton has wanted the game to be.

Many thanks to Firaxis; I hope you guys make a bundle on this one and can take a six month vaction in Tahiti as a result.

Staszek · October 4, 2001, 08:53

200+ pages? Let's think..

Some introduction for beginners...
Some comparison to previous versions...
100+ pages covering different advisors fields (military, diplomacy, etc.) ....
and finally tables with units?
some civilopedia content?

what do you think?

Solver · October 4, 2001, 10:31

Yes, it does look like Civ 3 will be a bestseller. And I like the manual! Damn it's going to be fat!

October 4, 2001, 10:34

Quote:

And, who exactly were you refering to when you said "chumps"?

People who actually buy strategy guides.

lockstep · October 4, 2001, 10:56

I hope the manual and the folded tech-tree are also included in the standard edition.

October 4, 2001, 11:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Mister Pleasant

People who actually buy strategy guides.

Oh, ok, I too find it very unnecessary to have a strategy guide, if you can't learn how to play the game enough to enjoy it(mistakes and all) then you probably shouldn't be playing this genre of games, try 'spaced invader's' instead.

Pembleton · October 4, 2001, 11:48

Quote:

Originally posted by bigfree1
Oh, ok, I too find it very unnecessary to have a strategy guide, if you can't learn how to play the game enough to enjoy it(mistakes and all) then you probably shouldn't be playing this genre of games, try 'spaced invader's' instead.

I have bought a couple strat guides not for strategy, (the strategies are mostly really bad, wrong or obsolete anyway), but for information that *should* have been in the manual. Of course, such information can sometimes be found on the net, but when I'm really obsessed with a certain game, I don't mind spending the extra money sometimes to get some tables/stats that should have been in the manual. It has nothing to do playing the game with mistakes, but with learning facts about the game that would otherwise be unknown.

These facts are intentionally left out of the manuals so that they can sell more strategy guides. I'm hoping that such will be left to a minimum with Civ3.

October 4, 2001, 11:54

I have the Civ 2 MPGE manual. It is very complete, in my opinion, and I'd expect the same or better(color pages) for Civ 3. If a manual that shipped with the game lacked a good portion of info that was later put into a strategy manual, then I'd feel ripped off by the publisher; I'm sure this will not be the case with Civ 3.