United Nations

ToD.MB · October 2, 2001, 18:05

I seem to remember reading on the Civ3.com site something about the United Nations, and how it is a way to diplomatic victory.

You need to either:

1) have built the UN wonder,

2) control 25% of the world's population, or

3) control 25% of the Earth's land area,

to get a UN seat.

Has anyone heard anything else about how the UN will effect the game. Can you vote for UN sanctions which each UN member will have to abide by? What other powers will the UN have, if any?

Ironwood · October 2, 2001, 18:09

I imagine the UN will be somewhat similar to the world council (can't remember the actual title) in SMAC. It would be a shame if they took a step backwards in that area of gameplay development.

Though I doubt the UN will be deploying solar shades.

Lorizael · October 2, 2001, 18:24

I wonder what the criteria for being elected to Leader of the UN are? How does the AI vote in this particular case? And do you get to vote?

I think that on a large world with fewer than average civs it will be no problem getting 25% population or landmass.

But in a fairly regular game I'm a bit worried their will be too few members. We'll see.

ToD.MB · October 2, 2001, 18:32

Reading the other thread about nuclear weapons, I'm wondering if the UN will impose restictions on this sort of thing.

Or just allow the powers with weapons when the UN's founded, or immediately thereafter, to wield them (like real life).

What does anyone think? I think a UN that acted like this would be realistic, but does anyone feel it'd be restrictive to the point that the gameplay would suffer?

Roman · October 2, 2001, 19:06

The 25% of landmass is merely a criterion for eligibility to be elected AFAIK.

JellyDonut · October 2, 2001, 19:31

Roman is right (I think).

Those requirements are to be able to be elected, but all civs (even you) can vote on whomever you want to be leader.

Roman · October 2, 2001, 20:13

Quote:

Originally posted by JellyDonut
Those requirements are to be able to be elected, but all civs (even you) can vote on whomever you want to be leader.

That's how I understood it, but last time I remember hearing something about the UN is a while ago.

Lorizael · October 2, 2001, 20:56

Will the UN be like it was in Civ 2 where it actually did stuff like impose peace treaties and such, or just a method of winning. I'm hoping both and I hope it will do more as far as imposing treaties and such.

Someone complained awhile back that they hadn't seen nuclear sanctions and the like in the Diplomatic Screen but we also haven't seen any modern shots. Maybe things like that don't appear until you actually get the weapons.

Hopefully the United Nations will have more power and feel more like and organization then the modern Great Wall.

JellyDonut · October 2, 2001, 21:33

I would like to have the ability to not join the U.N., just in case I'm feeling particularly militaristic. I would also like to defy U.N. demands, which should cause all U.N. members to declare war on me. That would be a fun way to die

Lorizael · October 2, 2001, 21:39

Quote:

Originally posted by JellyDonut
That would be a fun way to die

Why do you play the game? Though... the urge to defy the world is... growing... that would be fun! Take

that UN!

Lorizael · October 2, 2001, 21:41

Quote:

Originally posted by JellyDonut
That would be a fun way to die

Why do you play the game? Though... the urge to defy the world is... growing... that would be fun! Take

that "United Nations!" Soon you will all be MY NATION! BWUHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Oh, look what they've made me do

JellyDonut · October 2, 2001, 21:51

Why bother playing if I'm going to die? If I take over the world, there's nobody to hear me gloat. And going down in style is sometimes more fun than winning. And sometimes (in Civ2 at least) the AIs p*ss you off so much that you just want to go to war with everybody, and this seems like a handy way to do it.

Lorizael: Little tip. If you've already clicked "Submit", don't bother clicking "Stop" and working on your post some more. Chances are it's already processed into Apolyton by the time you click "Stop" and you will submit the new version, effectively creating a double-post. Just let it go and edit the post later.

Lorizael · October 2, 2001, 22:02

Yah I realized that afterwards... they act fast...

Stuie · October 2, 2001, 22:28

Quote:

Originally posted by JellyDonut
Roman is right (I think).

Those requirements are to be able to be elected, but all civs (even you) can vote on whomever you want to be leader.

That's what I used to think, but it's wrong. According to an Ask the Civ Team response to victory conditions (http://www.civ3.com/asktheteam_091401.cfm):

"The diplomatic victory condition is enabled after the United Nations wonder has been built. Once built, the UN will meet periodically to vote on a leader. Any civ that receives a majority of votes from the U.N. council wins the game. The catch here is that in order to even be on the U.N. council (and thus eligible to be elected U.N. leader), you must either control 25% of the world's territory or population. The civilization who builds the United Nations wonder automatically gains a permanent council position."

Emphasis added by me. Thus, only the council votes, not ALL the civs. I for one hope they are continuing to tweak this functionality.

JellyDonut · October 2, 2001, 22:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Stuie

That's what I used to think, but it's wrong. According to an Ask the Civ Team response to victory conditions (http://www.civ3.com/asktheteam_091401.cfm):

"The diplomatic victory condition is enabled after the United Nations wonder has been built. Once built, the UN will meet periodically to vote on a leader. Any civ that receives a majority of votes from the U.N. council wins the game. The catch here is that in order to even be on the U.N. council (and thus eligible to be elected U.N. leader), you must either control 25% of the world's territory or population. The civilization who builds the United Nations wonder automatically gains a permanent council position."

Emphasis added by me. Thus, only the council votes, not ALL the civs. I for one hope they are continuing to tweak this functionality.

Oh, my.

Well, I certainly hope they tweak it, because that'll allow 7 civs max on the council (i.e. 3 civs own at least 25% pop. each, 3 other civs own at least 25% land each, and one other built the U.N.), which is extremely unlikely. I'm guessing an average of 3 or 4 civs are on a council. But wouldn't they all vote for themselves?

Well, Firaxis better not ship the game with a major problem like that.

Nemo · October 3, 2001, 00:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Ironwood
I imagine the UN will be somewhat similar to the world council (can't remember the actual title) in SMAC.

thats how i have understood it to be also

Earthling7 · October 3, 2001, 06:12

What the UN should be able to do:

1. Elect World Leader (end game)
2. Elect Governing Nation (20 turns, gives power to veto)
3. Negotiate Peace Treaties between nations
4. Negotiate Disarmament treaties
5. Sanction against a nation in the wake of atrocities or non-compliance (to international agreements)
6. Provide economic aid to struggling Civs with good reputation (nations would pay for membership)
7. Agree on "acceptable" pollution levels

This is it, off the top of my head. I'm sure I left something out, but I'm even more sure Firaxis will leave even more out. Any ideas?

gremalkin · October 3, 2001, 07:39

How about nuclear test ban & proliferation treaties..

Stopping anyone building their first or any more nukes..

Ooooh - made it to chieftain!

Skanky Burns · October 3, 2001, 09:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Earthling7
What the UN should be able to do:

Nice ideas Earthling7

Although it is definately too late for Firaxis to add these, its fun to discuss. Which brings me to my ideas for what the UN can do:

Set minimum litracy rates everyone needs to achieve. Promote literacy.

Punish nations that break treaties/behave dishonourably

Promote increased life expectancies

Staszek · October 3, 2001, 09:41

Nice ideas Earthling7 and Skanky Burns.

I think Firaxis should be careful with implementing too many of your great ideas. It would not be real. Have a look: you can be a superpower (US) and have fun with UN regulations or better say use them as you need. You can even be the most respectful member and the bigger debtor. That is real, not AI mistake!

Skanky Burns · October 3, 2001, 11:02

One other idea: Free Slaves

Since all workers and settlers can now be captured, there should be an option of getting them back at the end of a war...
Unless I took them, in which case they'll work for me till they die. (which they wont, cuz im a nice kind of guy

)

Work, slaves, work!!

Staszek, I dont think Firaxis will implement these things, just fun to talk about

Meyer · October 3, 2001, 11:59

Translation Error???

I read the statement to mean:

25% of territory, etc., to be "electable" ... that is to be a "candidate"

All nations still get a vote ... just can't get on the ticket.

red_jon · October 3, 2001, 12:56

The requirements are absurd - Britain and France are big figures in the UN but do they control 25% of the world's anything?

It shouldn't work like that.

Haphazard · October 3, 2001, 13:24

Quote:

Originally posted by red_jon
The requirements are absurd - Britain and France are big figures in the UN but do they control 25% of the world's anything?

It shouldn't work like that.

But the UN in the real world has 190 civs

ixnay · October 3, 2001, 13:27

In case any of you were curious, here's a pic of the UN in civ3:

Haphazard · October 3, 2001, 13:46

Nice! Did you get that image from the fansite kit?

ixnay · October 3, 2001, 13:51

Yep. This thread has the list of all the images in the fansite kit.

Lorizael · October 3, 2001, 16:28

You all are acting like the UN will have no power what so ever and that none of these features will be in the game. We haven't actually seen any screens relating to the United Nations so don't lose hope yet. All we have is the little snippet Dan gave us.

Neat ideas anyways.

But... how would the UN negotiating treaties work?

Stuie · October 3, 2001, 20:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Lorizael
We haven't actually seen any screens relating to the United Nations so don't lose hope yet. All we have is the little snippet Dan gave us.

Uh, what I posted above was not a "little snippet", it was a quote from an "Ask the Civ Team" piece on the official website. (http://www.civ3.com/asktheteam_091401.cfm) I'd say that has some weight behind it (as in, that is how the UN will function in the game.

As to who gets a vote, it clearly states that only the council members get a vote. I quote:

"Any civ that receives a majority of votes from the U.N. council wins the game. "

Beyond that, I'm guessing that the UN will have some of it's Civ2 powers, but not much else.

civcop · October 3, 2001, 20:47

If you wanted a realistic UN in Civ 3 then you would have a huge bloated beurocracy that has very limited actual power (as opposed to supposed power) and messes things up as often as it improves anything. And the civ that builds the wonder would have to deal with all the diplomats not paying their hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of parking tickets, along with their being immune from that civ's laws. Gee, if that's the UN in Civ 3 then I don't want any part of it.