The newest civ-of-the-week : Iroquois

[SerapisIV]

The Iroquois:

Special Unit: Mounted Warrior

An improved horseman, it's the mounted Indian Chief unit that posters debated months ago might have been a military leader.

[monkspider]

you just beat me to it

[SerapisIV]

In Civilization III, the Iroquois represent all the tribes of Northern Native Americans. Though the Iroquois rarely used horse-mounted warriors in combat due to the wooded terrain they usually fought in, many other tribes frequently made use of them (notably the Sioux and other tribes of the Great Plains), and to great effect.

Nice to see that Firaxis gave in to the politically correct gods when they decided that the Iroquois were a civ and not the Incas

[JellyDonut]

You beat me, too, only I didn't realize till it was too late

[Akron]

The Mounted Warrior is 3-1-2. Looks like a pretty powerful unit for its time. Probably will be the first unit with attack 3.

[korn469]

stupid slow internet

but anyways is it just me or do early mobile units look pretty worthless?

chariot 1-1-2
horseman 2-1-2
and then suddenly
knight 4-3-2

but it's all cool

[JellyDonut]

Originally posted by SerapisIV
Nice to see that Firaxis gave in to the politically correct gods when they decided that the Iroquois were a civ and not the Incas

Something tells me this was a last-ditch effort to save the unit after their Q&A guys said it was historically incorrect At least they didn't try to pretend it was a real Iroquois unit.

[Ralf]

OK, now we only have the Zulus left of the ancient/medieval era-related CSU:s. Soon we can finally get down to buziness with the more interesteing industrial/modern CSU:s stats.

[monkspider]

Mounted warrior looks useful IMHO. A good early attack unit.
I think they have made an interesting choice to use the Iroquis to represent all northern native american tribes. It was probably the only thing they can do, as you can't simply have a Civ called "Native Americans".

[SerapisIV]

Nah, then they'll do the British with the man-o-war. Which is pre-industrial. Sucks don't it. At least 3 weeks from today until we see an industrial/modern civ UU. Hopefully the screen-of-the week will be more revealing.

[monkspider]

What about the Russian Cossack? What time period would it fit under?

[monkspider]

....and there is still Japan with her Samurai left as well.

[Felch]

Does anybody else get the feeling that some of these unique units aren't going to be all that decisive? I mean, the Greek hoplites were the premier fighting unit in the Aegean, Roman legion dominated the mediterranean, and the English man-o-war turned the world's oceans into Britain's pond.

This leads to two problems. What do you do with empires that never had any sort of powerhouse, and how do you reflect the relative abilities of the units historically without unbalancing the game?

Other than that, I think the Iroquois are pretty bland. Nothing against them, I'm just not sitting around waiting for that first chance to pop in the CD and start using "Mounted Warriors."

[JellyDonut]

Originally posted by monkspider
What about the Russian Cossack? What time period would it fit under?

We still don't know what the Russian unique unit is. From http://www.civ3.com/asktheteam_092801.cfm :

As far as the Russian unique unit goes, our lips are sealed!

I don't know why everybody's making a big ruckus out of the Iroquois unit NOW. We saw this unit months ago and later found out the Iroquois were in. Couldn't anybody put 2 and 2 together (and not get 5 )???

[Ribannah]

He could have been Aztec. At least their cousins the Comanche and Soschone were excellent riders! later, we were just hoping that Firaxis would see the mistake ...
The description of the Iroquois is pretty fair though.

[Skanky Burns]

If it helps gameplay (and doesnt give us *another* warrior type unit) then i dont really mind the inaccuracy.

[d_dudy]

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
If it helps gameplay (and doesnt give us *another* warrior type unit) then i dont really mind the inaccuracy.

they coulda had a musket carrying warrior witha hatchet sorta dealy. that woulda been cool

[SSBLoveU]

I think the Iroquis were interesting to read about. I think in Civilzation III. It will be interesting to make New York a powerful nation.

Metacomet lived between 1638 and 1676. He was the younger son of Massasoit. Massasoit is well known for his peace treaty with the Pilgrims and the first Thanksgiving.

<<(http://www.kidinfo.com/American_Hist...Americans.html)
The original homeland of the Iroquois was in upstate New York between the Adirondack Mountains and Niagara Falls. Through conquest and migration, they gained control of most of the northeastern United States and eastern Canada. At its maximum in 1680, their empire extended west from the north shore of Chesapeake Bay through Kentucky to the junction of the Ohio and Mississippi Rivers; then north following the Illinois River to the south end of Lake Michigan; east across all of lower Michigan, southern Ontario and adjacent parts of southwestern Quebec; and finally south through northern New England west of the Connecticut River through the Hudson and upper Delaware Valleys across Pennsylvania back to the Chesapeake. With two exceptions - the Mingo occupation of the upper Ohio Valley and the Caughnawaga migration to the upper St. Lawrence - the Iroquois did not, for the most part, physically occupy this vast area but remained in their upstate New York villages. During the hundred years preceding the American Revolution, wars with French-allied Algonquin and British colonial settlement forced them back within their original boundaries once again. Their decision to side with the British during the Revolutionary War was a disaster for the Iroquois. The American invasion of their homeland in 1779 drove many of the Iroquois into southern Ontario where they have remained. With large Iroquois communities already located along the upper St. Lawrence in Quebec at the time, roughly half of the Iroquois population has since lived in Canada. This includes most of the Mohawk along with representative groups from the other tribes. Although most Iroquois reserves are in southern Ontario and Quebec, one small group (Michel's band) settled in Alberta during the 1800s as part of the fur trade>>

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Originally posted by SerapisIV


Nice to see that Firaxis gave in to the politically correct gods when they decided that the Iroquois were a civ and not the Incas

[Patriqvium]

The true reason why Salamanca is the Iroquis capital may be found from this AD. Do not questions its historical value.

[SSBLoveU]

Salamanca is in New York and in Spain.



Quote from Internet (http://www.powhatan.org/sacrifices.html): Cortes arrived in 1523. The population declined by 90% in 50 years, from 25 million to 2.5 million. By 1600, there were only a million native people alive in Mexico. Juan Bautista Pomar explains in this account of 1582, that the native people were especially vulnerable to diseases, because they were exhausted by hard labor and had lost the will to live:
"The blame goes to affliction and fatigue of their spirits because they had lost the liberty God had given them, for the Spaniards treat them worse than slaves."

As a side note, some of the gold that the Spaniards took from Mexico was used to build a giant Armada. The fleet sent against England by Philip II of Spain in 1588. It was defeated by the English navy and later dispersed and wrecked by storms. The Aztec flag still can be seen in Mexico today, 2001, and the Spanish language is enjoyed by many for its beauty, kindness and romance.

More Quotes from Internet(http://www.georgetown.edu/users/arsenauj/kpwtitle.html): The Jamestown Colony was founded in 1607. At the time of the Jamestown Colony, the native peoples of the coastal plain of Virginia had formed the Powhatan Confederacy.

When defeat seemed imminent, Metacomet retreated to his ancestral home at Mount Hope, where he was betrayed by an informer, shot in ambush, beheaded, and quartered on August 12, 1676. His head was displayed on a pole at Plymouth for 25 years. Puritan responses sought to resolve the events of 1675-1676 in accordance with God's will.

(http://www.kidinfo.com/American_Hist...Americans.html) In the United States, much of the Iroquois homeland was surrendered to New York land speculators in a series of treaties following the Revolutionary War.

Originally posted by Patriqvium
The true reason why Salamanca is the Iroquis capital may be found from this AD. Do not questions its historical value.

[Patriqvium]

I know that Salamanca is in NY and Spain, but it was definately NOT the name the Iroquois used for the city. For some better capital suggestions (and remember, historical accuracy whiners, it IS possible to change city names via the editors), visit Provost Harrison's thread about Salamanca.

[SSBLoveU]

It is all interesting. I think I will keep the name.

Originally posted by Jay Bee
From http://wnyrails.railfan.net/sal_home.htm





Perhpas not all Spaniards were as wicked as some posters pretend they were.

Originally posted by Patriqvium
I know that Salamanca is in NY and Spain, but it was definately NOT the name the Iroquois used for the city. For some better capital suggestions (and remember, historical accuracy whiners, it IS possible to change city names via the editors), visit Provost Harrison's thread about Salamanca.

[dearmad]

At any rate- the Mounted Warrior should be a unit not from the Bronze Ages as it is but one contemporary to Musketeers or oven later. That's where I'll be putting it when I edit the game, along with changed stats to make it viable.

I'm not big on PC stuff, but this one goes way past my limit.

[Spartan187]

Does anyone know why Firaxis made the (annoying) decision to put all the civs with ancient units first?
I"d really like to see the F-16 or the Panzer or at least the Cossack or man-of-war...

[JellyDonut]

Come on, people!

If Firaxis had done it any other way, you'd still be complaining. If Firaxis included lots of Native American civs, you'd complain that there are too many civs you've never heard of. If they grouped all Northern Native Americans into one civ called "Native Americans" you'd complain that there's no "Europeans" or "East Asians" civs. If Firaxis had the Iroquois representing just the Iroquois, you'd complain (as you did). As I see it, they made the best possible compromise.

[El hidalgo]

Originally posted by JellyDonut
Come on, people!

If Firaxis had done it any other way, you'd still be complaining. If Firaxis included lots of Native American civs, you'd complain that there are too many civs you've never heard of. If they grouped all Northern Native Americans into one civ called "Native Americans" you'd complain that there's no "Europeans" or "East Asians" civs. If Firaxis had the Iroquois representing just the Iroquois, you'd complain (as you did). As I see it, they made the best possible compromise.

True, you can't make everyone happy, but I bet there would have been fewer complaints if they had included the Incas instead of the Iroquois. You've already got the Americans and the Aztecs in North America -- now South America is completely empty. The Incas would have been the better choice both for historical reasons and for play value, IMHO.

[JellyDonut]

I don't know...someone in this forum brought up the good point that the Incas unconventionally built their cities on mountains; something you can't do in Civ III.

[Ribannah]

Since for some obscure reason, this thread was made sticky, let me supply some links to the more informative forum threads about the Iroquois:

What do we know about the Iroquois?
The reason why the Iroquois are in the game
Poll: the Iroquois debate, let's clean up the mess we have created
Salamanca?!?!?!?!

[zoom200]

where would the Iroqoui starting postion be??
on the west coast or in Ontario???
I don't know crap abt Native Amercican History....( since i am from asia ) but if i am not wrong...horses didnt exist in North Amercica till the spanish brought them ...since the horses originated from the steppes of Central Asia ( Ferghana )

[red_jon]

Ribannah is here as the Iroqious representative