The Iroquois Debate: Lets clean up the mess we've created.

[Boris Godunov]

By the way, if you guys want to get some nasty stuff on poor Dutch behavior, why not go to the Boers? Talk about scoundrels!

Cheers.

[Ribannah]

Yes, Waku, but I still don't know what you want to say.

....

Monkspider, it's official: we have a 2:0 victory by default

HIAWATHA VICTORIOUS!! HIAWATHA VICTORIOUS!!

[Waku]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Interesting source, but I agree with Ribannah that we can't single out the Dutch more than anyone else. If it was either ferrying the slaves or actually using them, all the colonial European powers have bloody hands, as do the Africans who participated.

Yep, agree.
But I didn't single out the Dutch in my post, I said that "Dutch applied the technology learnt from Spaniards (i.e. to cross the ocean) to traffic with slaves" it doesn't mean others didn't do the same (spaniards included)

[Waku]

Originally posted by Ribannah
Yes, Waku, but I still don't know what you want to say.

because it's a nonsense if you take it out of context, try reading the whole thread 6 times (or even better writing it down on paper)

[orange]

Monkspider, it's official: we have a 2:0 victory by default

HIAWATHA VICTORIOUS!! HIAWATHA VICTORIOUS!!

yup, the single dumbest thing I've ever heard...

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by orange






yup, the single dumbest thing I've ever heard...

Oh, come on...we've seen far dumber things on this board just from Ribannah alone...

[Ribannah]

Chicken! Chicken!

[orange]

Once again Ribannah, if you don't have anything of value to post...please...don't.

You're only being a troll, and a piss poor one at that.

[Boris Godunov]

Hehehe, you said "piss"

Looking over past posts that I missed, I was very interested in this idea of determining exactly which techs the Iroquois can be said to have possessed prior to European influence. I had alot of strong disagreements with what people said about certain techs and what qualified...but felt orange hit the nail on the head buy using the Civ2 Civilopedia tech descriptions. I think these should be the standard, as they are the closest we can get game designer's intent.

Another point is the starting tech. Every settler in 4000 BC starts with a minimum of two techs...Irrigation and Roads.

Since the Iroquois possessed neither, I see that as a further indication that they should not qualify as a "civilization."

Cheers.

[Ribannah]

I guess you never heard of the Geneese Road, that connected many Iroquois communities. For their crops in the river valleys the Iroquois didn't need much irrigation on a regular basis, but when the need arose they used simple irrigation ditches.

[Fiil]

Isn't mining a starting tech too?

[Myrddin]

Isn't looking at what techs the Iroquois had before European contact a red herring - how much did the Romans take from the Greeks etc

[orange]

Originally posted by Myrddin
Isn't looking at what techs the Iroquois had before European contact a red herring - how much did the Romans take from the Greeks etc

taking from a culture what you don't understand, understanding it, and then using is different than being sold rifles and saying you have knowledge of gun powder.

I'm sure if NASA sat you down and told you a few buttons to push, you could help launch a shuttle, but you wouldn't have knowledge of space flight.

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by Fiil
Isn't mining a starting tech too?

Yes. I'm only waiting for someone to claim that the Iroquois got their Copper, Silver and Nickel rained down on them all pure and polished ...

[orange]

...we don't make statements that can't be backed up, don't make sense, and are undeniably wrong.

That's your job

[Juggernaut]

THe Iroquais should be swapped in favour of the Vikings. Period.
Although, I suspect revealing the Modern Iroquai leader will be fun.