Is it me, or does Firaxis only confirm the negative?

Father Beast · October 7, 2001, 11:44

I mean, we started talking about a demo, and they slapped us down hard.

We started talking about scripting language, and Dan said there isn't any.

There's probably more, but you get the drift. It seems the only time they will admit to something positive in these forums is when it's already been posted officially somewhere else.

and yet, they consistently refuse to say anything about MP. if it wasn't in, you'd think they'd've told us so by now.

I haven't taken the time to dig much, but it seems to me that their big buildup is to be sly and secretive.

I mean, it took forever to get ANY info out of them at all!

Akron · October 7, 2001, 11:51

Its easier for them to confirm only the negative, given that they want reveal as little about the game as possible. They have given a little bit of info out on other things that haven't been brought up elsewhere, but compared with other companies, they allow very few information leaks.

isaac brock · October 7, 2001, 11:53

I think you're right, and that it's enough of an explanation to stop MP b*tching.

Urban Ranger · October 7, 2001, 13:57

That's easy than.

Whenever you want to confirm there is such and such a feature, just assume that there is and start discussing it. If it's not in one of the Firaxians will strike it down.

squid · October 7, 2001, 14:22

UR: For instance, did you know that one of the city improvements is "the really really big baseball stadium". It will cause men to become less productive on certain nights while women will grow more angry. At the same time, cities with "beer processing centers" and "big screen television stores" will recieve +2 gold/turn bonuses during the baseball season, which is, I think, about 85% of the year. The negative female affects are cancelled out by the "shopping mall" improvement, but that has the side effect of negating the improvements from the "big screen t.v." stores because the women will be spending all of the money.

Dan: deny this please

Crouchback · October 7, 2001, 15:14

Or the Firaxis game release virus that incapacitates the more educated and culturally aware citizens driving down the victim's research efforts and culture ratings.

David

SITS · October 7, 2001, 15:55

Quote:

Originally posted by isaac brock
I think you're right, and that it's enough of an explanation to stop MP b*tching.

The bitterness of a Single Player...

Melios · October 7, 2001, 16:14

He has a point: They did NOT strike down the rumor of "no MP" so maybe it will be in.

Immortal Wombat · October 7, 2001, 16:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
That's easy than.

Whenever you want to confirm there is such and such a feature, just assume that there is and start discussing it. If it's not in one of the Firaxians will strike it down.

I predict the AI will suck.

*waits for denial*

Crouchback · October 7, 2001, 16:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Melios
He has a point: They did NOT strike down the rumor of "no MP" so maybe it will be in.

Or there are just some things they're too ashamed to admit. But since we're on the emotional MP rollercoaster let's enjoy the ride, today is an optimistic day, I'll save my bitterness for tomorrow.

MP is definitely in, I can tell from the tea leaves in the bottom of my china cup.

Well it beats waiting for Saint Dan of Firaxis to dole out another tantalising non-answer.

David

Ps, Wombat, better get a soft pillow cause the AI's going to kick you out of your tree my man.

Father Beast · October 8, 2001, 01:56

I fthis is so, then perhaps we sould start a thread about how cool it will be to play multiplayer, discuss MP strategies, and so forth.

Maybe one of us can "recieve" an email from somebody at Firaxis (not to be identified, since they're not supposed to say, officially) that talks about the cool way the MP games will function. Keep it real and believable.

Hell, even if I don't believe it, I would still participate, just for the fun. Then see if they slap us down!

Inverse Icarus · October 8, 2001, 02:18

the civ team are all members of OfAPeCiClu silly.

Sarxis · October 8, 2001, 04:04

I think not. Dan has posted several things that have confirmed good news.

Heck, there is a whole bunch of stuff that Firaxis has said is in CivIII for sure- here, at the website, and other ways.

Maybe the reason people only notice the confirmation of negative things is becuase there is so much talk here about negative things concerning CivIII.

Ozymandous · October 8, 2001, 12:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Anunikoba
I think not. Dan has posted several things that have confirmed good news.

Heck, there is a whole bunch of stuff that Firaxis has said is in CivIII for sure- here, at the website, and other ways.

Maybe the reason people only notice the confirmation of negative things is becuase there is so much talk here about negative things concerning CivIII.

Well....

If you expect the worst than anything better than that is a pleasant surprise.

Besides, few people know how the game will really be until it arrives and we can play it. Until then if people want to be pessimistic, then so what?

Urban Ranger · October 8, 2001, 12:28

That's heresy, thus not allowed.

Offenders are punishable by viscious taunting.

Immortal Wombat · October 8, 2001, 13:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Crouchback

Ps, Wombat, better get a soft pillow cause the AI's going to kick you out of your tree my man.

Uh huh. Bring it!

Ok, I'm secretly hoping for a great AI, but the better it is, the harder it will be to mod, so the balance is important.

Try this though: Just think about all the decisions you make in one turn of civ. Break these into longterm, short term, medium term goals, think of all unit movements, buildings to build, rushbuys to do (or not) diplomacy to sort out, fear factors, desire factors, think about tactical resource aquisition, think about settlement goals, strategy, postioning. Then try and fit all that into a few seconds of PC time, quick enough so the game isn't boring and slow. If the Civ3 AI isn't beaten on Deity within a week of US release, I'll stay off 'poly for a month.

(Archive this thread, just in case)

Akron · October 8, 2001, 14:55

Quote:

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat

Ok, I'm secretly hoping for a great AI, but the better it is, the harder it will be to mod, so the balance is important.

How will a better AI be harder to mod? I don't quite get it, though I've never seriously tried to make a scenario before either...

Immortal Wombat · October 8, 2001, 16:39

Sorry, bit obscure perhaps.

The CtP2 AI (the one I am most familiar with) was substantially easier to understand than the CtP1 AI. It was also a lot worse.
I get the feeling that the better an AI can perform, the more fuzzy logic and complex files, (usually unmoddable) it needs. To get the AI to perform needs complexity, to make it moddable, it needs simplicity.

I hope its either so good it needs no modding, or really poo like CtP2, so its simple, and moddable.

Crouchback · October 8, 2001, 16:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat
Sorry, bit obscure perhaps.

The CtP2 AI (the one I am most familiar with) was substantially easier to understand than the CtP1 AI. It was also a lot worse.
I get the feeling that the better an AI can perform, the more fuzzy logic and complex files, (usually unmoddable) it needs. To get the AI to perform needs complexity, to make it moddable, it needs simplicity.

You've hit the nail on the head there. The AI in CTP "classic"

was much better then it's successor, though it fainted when it saw my stack of cannons, but I could never get any of my attempts at mods to work.

Quote:

I hope its either so good it needs no modding, or really poo like CtP2, so its simple, and moddable.

Perhaps that's why they haven't included a scripting language, because the AI is so complex they don't want little wombat fingers digging around in it. Hence they're providing the best ever all in one editor to keep us all happy, but it had better be an improvement on the SMACx one or I'll be begging someone to rip the hood off and play with the wires.

David

Immortal Wombat · October 8, 2001, 17:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Crouchback

Perhaps that's why they haven't included a scripting language, because the AI is so complex they don't want little wombat fingers digging around in it. Hence they're providing the best ever all in one editor to keep us all happy, but it had better be an improvement on the SMACx one or I'll be begging someone to rip the hood off and play with the wires.

David

Pah, my highly skilled wombat fingers are quite capable of meddling with a scripted AI. If anything, part of their "great commitment to modders/scenario makers" should be letting us customize the AI, through a scripting language if neccessary. Think of the scenarios that you could make if you could make your own AI variations...

Father Beast · October 8, 2001, 22:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Anunikoba
I think not. Dan has posted several things that have confirmed good news.

Like what? not counting things that were already revealed on an official site or a preview.

Rimmer · October 8, 2001, 22:47

They better watch out!

Sarxis · October 8, 2001, 23:05

Yup, I edited my post because I am retracting my statement.

But I can confirm this- CivIII has gone gold. And I think Firaxis can confirm this also.

SteveJH · October 8, 2001, 23:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Father Beast

Like what? not counting things that were already revealed on an official site or a preview.

I never heard of the espionage window before Dan posted it.

Sarxis · October 8, 2001, 23:08

Thanx Steve! I am too lazy to search through countless posts to look for these.

Grumbold · October 9, 2001, 06:22

I welcome the Firaxis information telling us what is not in the game. It helps avoid further meaningless speculation about how a certain feature might work when it does not exist at all. Just look at all the work that was going into alternative ways of making the unit workshop fit in Civ world. Okay it is normally replaced by a week of complaining about such a dead feature but eventually the conversation can move on to more fertile ground.

Changing tack, stalwarts over on the CtP2 forum have demonstrated just how good the AI can be with scripting. The only reason I stopped playing is because I detest certain unchangeable parts of the interface. The AI itself is far stronger than any version of Civ2 or SMAC despite the added complexities. If Civ3 AI plays this well I will no doubt be enjoying the game for years despite my own reservations about unique units and fixed national characteristics because those I can always change or turn off. What worries me is that we are relying solely on Firaxis to achieve that high standard because no-one else can write code to adjust it.

Father Beast · October 9, 2001, 14:18

Quote:

Originally posted by SteveJH

I never heard of the espionage window before Dan posted it.

hmmmnnnn.... Point taken. That's not on civ3 .com, and I can't recall there being a preview that mentioned it.

I think he came into a discussion on how to tone down the pwer of dips to announce that. not any real info, just that there aren't any dips in civ3, and it's been abstracted.