New preview at Gamespy

Mahdimael · October 10, 2001, 12:14

http://www.gamespy.com/gamespin/october01/gamespin26/

It's an interview with Soren Johnson:

Points:
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" In Civ III the worlds that are generated look much better. They have authentic looking coastlines, and so on. We even model plate tectonics so that mountain ranges and valleys make sense"
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" Does the AI cheat? Yes, but sometimes in favor of the player! Below Prince level it cheats for the player, and above Prince level it cheats against the player. At Prince level there is no cheating."
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"GameSpin: Any multiplayer?

Johnson: No. We're working on multiplayer but we're not ready to make any announcements about how it will be implemented. "
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That's the main stuff. Check it out

ixnay · October 10, 2001, 12:25

It also says that no one at Firaxis has been able to win on deity...

Pembleton · October 10, 2001, 12:30

Well isn't Emperor now the equivalent of Civ2's Deity, since the computer cheats above Prince? I believe King was the level in Civ2 where the playing field was the most even.

connorkimbro · October 10, 2001, 15:11

There are all quotes from the Soren Johnson interview. .

Quote:

We also looked at some popular tactics like ICS -- infinite city sprawl -- that some players used to beat the AI in Civ II at Deity level. These won't work in Civ III.

Heh. . oh yeah? We'll see about that. We'll find a way to make them work, and if not, we'll find NEW ways to exploit the game. Just wait and see, Firaxis.

Quote:

He was basically the lead designer and came up with the high level concepts like culture and borders.

LOL. IIRC, we came up with culture, read The List (any version) . . and borders was in smac and ctp so I hardly see how he "came up with it."

Quote:

For instance, there are more units in Civ III than in Civ II. .

Cool, didn't know that.

Quote:

Johnson: We're ready for something new. The RTS genre is stuck in a rut now.

Does this mean that you WILL do an RTS game to revive it, or WON'T do an RTS game for fear of poor sales?

Stuie · October 10, 2001, 15:21

Quote:

Originally posted by connorkimbro

Quote:

He was basically the lead designer and came up with the high level concepts like culture and borders.

LOL. IIRC, we came up with culture, read The List (any version) . . and borders was in smac and ctp so I hardly see how he "came up with it."

I think they are referring to how the concepts work within the framework of Civ3. The fact other games did or did not have a similiar feature or that they were mentioned on some list is inconsequential to the actual work of designing the look, feel and interaction of the feature as it pertains to the new game being developed.

connorkimbro · October 10, 2001, 15:27

I agree, that's what he meant, but that's not exactly what he SAID.

He was SAID "came up with" on the "conceptual" level. Not just implementation. .

Pembleton · October 10, 2001, 15:33

Quote:

Originally posted by connorkimbro
There are all quotes from the Soren Johnson interview. .

Quote:

We also looked at some popular tactics like ICS -- infinite city sprawl -- that some players used to beat the AI in Civ II at Deity level. These won't work in Civ III.

Heh. . oh yeah? We'll see about that. We'll find a way to make them work, and if not, we'll find NEW ways to exploit the game. Just wait and see, Firaxis.

He didn't say that the game couldn't be exploited. He admitted that gamers will figure out how to beat Deity eventually even though no-one at Firaxis has been able to beat it yet.

Akron · October 10, 2001, 15:35

Quote:

Originally posted by ixnay37
It also says that no one at Firaxis has been able to win on deity...

That sounds very promising! Hopefully, this ai will be good enough to keep most people interested until multiplayer comes out (it better be released as part of a patch).

Pembleton · October 10, 2001, 15:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Akron
That sounds very promising! Hopefully, this ai will be good enough to keep most people interested until multiplayer comes out (it better be released as part of a patch).

I don't think this necessarily means the AI is much better, although I'm hoping it is.

All they have to do is give the AI a ton of advantages and disadvantages to the player to make Deity extremely difficult.

OneFootInTheGrave · October 10, 2001, 16:06

this is really promising... 20 more days ....

FrostyBoy · October 10, 2001, 19:47

Looks like I will be playing Prince first then, I hate it when the AI cheats, things just don't seem right.

Comrade Tribune · October 10, 2001, 19:51

Overall, this interview sounds good.
The game is not exactly full of new features, and even some old -MP- are missing, but at least what is there will be very highly polished, I believe.

smellymummy · October 10, 2001, 21:51

no mp sounds like no hotseat or pbem...the most basic mp you can get!!

Instead of player takes turn, then ai... just add another player in the list! That's dissapointing. We're all going to be playing for hours on end in solitude

jsw363 · October 10, 2001, 22:44

I wonder how the AI cheats FOR the player. It must be REALLY good if they have to balance it like that. Maybe it won't make stupid diplomatic decisions anymore...

JellyDonut · October 10, 2001, 23:06

Quote:

Originally posted by smellymummy
no mp sounds like no hotseat or pbem...the most basic mp you can get!!

Succession games are more basic! All you need is the ability to save files! And if Civ III doesn't allow files to be saved...

tniem · October 10, 2001, 23:31

Quote:

Originally posted by connorkimbro
There are all quotes from the Soren Johnson interview. .

Quote:

Johnson: We're ready for something new. The RTS genre is stuck in a rut now.

Does this mean that you WILL do an RTS game to revive it, or WON'T do an RTS game for fear of poor sales?

Yeah and will the genre still be in a rut when BHG releases whatever they release? I mean they are a company that still is mainly a TBS company what are they going to come up with that is really different from what the TBSers at BHG have? Or what RTSers have been doing for years? I mean I would look forward to something new and original but what is it going to be?

Oh and something that is pretty interesting to me, before the interview, there is a large thing about online MP games. So even the biggest TBS game in a few years is preceded by the omnipresent MP. And it isn't even included.

Comrade Tribune · October 11, 2001, 00:14

Quote:

Originally posted by jsw363
I wonder how the AI cheats FOR the player. It must be REALLY good if they have to balance it like that. Maybe it won't make stupid diplomatic decisions anymore...

This was a clever thing to note.

Yes, indeed, even on Chieftain one would not assume it to be necessary to cheat against the computer.

Matthew · October 11, 2001, 23:29

If they didn't or don't fix the tribute problem someone will likely win at Diety with a single size one city, no colonies, on the second or third night after the game get's released.

Until computers are sentient, or at least several orders of magnitude better than they are today, there will be no way that a computer can present much of a challenge at a game like civilization without "cheating". In fact, cheating isn't even a good term here. The computer isn't competing with you. It is presenting you with a challenge, so as to make the game enjoyable.

Grumbold · October 12, 2001, 06:55

If the player is doing well, ally with other AI nations and attack player until eradicated. How hard is that? In Civ II the computer was unable to recognise a bad bargain and reject it. The same mistake must not be allowed to flourish in Civ III.

Grim Legacy · October 12, 2001, 07:01

Quote:

Originally posted by jsw363
I wonder how the AI cheats FOR the player. It must be REALLY good if they have to balance it like that. Maybe it won't make stupid diplomatic decisions anymore...

This is nothing new. Cheating in favor of the player occured in Civ1 already; the AI civs would need more grain to grow their cities and more shields to build anything for example. On the tougher difficulty levels this is reversed; AI civs need less to do more.

Cheating is not something I like to see. I hope it has been done with sufficient discretion this time.