Ancient Indian & Persian Icons

lmstoudt · December 1, 1999, 20:58

I'm doing an Alexander scenario & I'm looking for Persian cavalry & Indian infantry/cavalry units. I've checked Alex's site & the Harlan Thompson collection. I don't have the talent or patience to create my own.

Stefan Härtel · December 2, 1999, 04:29

Mail me! I've got a couple of Persian icons (not only the ones in my scens but NEW ones!)

Did you play my "Quest for Asia" scenario?

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Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong.

Civfan · December 3, 1999, 00:13

Does anyone know the difference between the Parthians and Sassanids of Persia? Would units be same,different, anyone know of this. Stefan, could I use some of your units?

Michael Daumen · December 3, 1999, 09:05

Try this link for info about the Sassanids v. the Achaeans.
[This message has been edited by Michael Daumen (edited December 03, 1999).]

Stefan Härtel · December 3, 1999, 10:08

Even though Mike has a very good link there, I will try to give a little explanation:
The Parthians where an Arian tribe similar to the Persians which kept being a vassal until the conquests of Alexander the Great. Later sources tell that they where very happy under the rule of the "early" Persians, the Achaemenids. After Alexander died, his empire was divided up under his closest friends, the diadochs, who began fighting against each other. The Parthians took the oportunity and invaded Persia,which was under the rule of the Seleucids, the successors of Seleukos Nikator.
After long fighting, in the 2nd century BC the Seleucid empire was reduced to Syria. The Parthians have established their own empire. Because of that, Persia (or what we know as Persia) was under "foreign" rule again. Persia ITSELF (a small territory in the south) was a vassal of Parthia.
Around 220 BC, the Persian vassals began to revolt against the Parthians (BTW, the Parthian dynasty was known as the Arsacid dynasty because Arsaces began war vs. the Seleucids and was the first Parthian king). Soon, they had conquered all Parthian possesions. Their first important kings where Ardaxshir (Artaxerxes

)I. 224-239 AD
and Shabuhr "The one who captured Valerianus"
I. 239-270 AD

The Persians where now under the rule of the Sassanid dynasty. I don't know why it was called so.

BTW, the Achaemenids where called after Achaimenes who led the Persians from Armenia to moder-day Fars (Persia) and was their first king.

Would units be same,different, anyone know of
this. Stefan, could I use some of your units?

The units looked by far different from the Achaemenid ones. I can still draw some for you if you want.

------------------
Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong.

Michael Daumen · December 4, 1999, 00:38

The Persians don't do anything without consulting Stefan

Did you acquire Persian knowledge for Civ2 or just some underlying obsession (or are they the same?)?

Civfan · December 4, 1999, 01:08

Wow, so much information. Thanks Michael Daumen for the site info. It's going to help out alot in the scenario I'm creating.

Stefan, I read your reply in the Ancient Scenario's topic. Boy you know your stuff. From some outdated sources I've been looking at, the Parthians were a Scythian people who settled in Khurasan, west of ancient Media. They freed themselves of Seleucid rule and expanded to include all of Achaemenids empire up to the Euphrates river. Besides being defeated by the Roman emperor Trajan, thats basically all I know of them.

But questions for them would be what kind of military they had to conquer that territory? They must of had a disiplined army as they defeated serveral Roman armies before the time of Trajan's conquests 115-117AD. They defeated and killed Crussus before AD1.

The Sassanids according to this encyclepedia overthrow the Parthian kings in 226 A.D. The king of Persis Province rebelled and established himself as ruler. Where the Sassanids a people or just a ruling family?

Stefan, I would really apreciate it if you could draw some units. Some Parthian horses and infantry and Sassanids Calvary and infantry. If you wish you can email me at jmegill@wwonline.com

thanks..... more to come.......Civfan

Stefan Härtel · December 4, 1999, 07:03

"The Persians don't do anything without consulting Stefan Did you
acquire Persian knowledge for Civ2 or just some underlying
obsession (or are they the same?)?"

Well, basically from my personal interest, but I have to do some research when doing Civ2 scenarios

"They freed themselves of Seleucid rule and
expanded to include all of Achaemenids empire up to the Euphrates
river. Besides being defeated by the Roman emperor Trajan, thats
basically all I know of them. "

I don't know about the Scythian stuff. The Parthians who conquered the empire where BTW a smiliar people, the Parnians, who occupied Parthia. Guess they liked"Parthians" better

What source told you the Achaemenids where only up to the Euphrates? They conquered everything of the Middle East. From the Indus to Macedonia, from the Caucasus to Nubia, from the Jaxartes to Libya... The Bible says about Xerxes (it calls him Ahasaveros) that he reigned over 127 lands (not counting Skudra, Macedonia and the Possesions of the Aegean).

The Parthians, I think, used the same weapon constellation which had been succesful in Iran for many centuries. They attacked with their mounted archers. The Iranians where horse tribes. The Persians where experts with Horse, arrow and chariot, which made them nearly invincible in the middle east in the 6th and 5th century BC. THe Greeks had better weapons and tactics, though.

"Where the Sassanids a people or just a
ruling family? "

A Ruling family.

"Stefan, I would really apreciate it if you could draw some units.
Some Parthian horses and infantry and Sassanids Calvary and
infantry. If you wish you can email me at jmegill@wwonline.com"

I will see what I can do. It is difficult to make out anything on some of the Relief artwork the Sassanids left (The Achaemenids made much more beautiful artwork. YOu might want to go to the Louvre website, I'll post the link here later).

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Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong.

Stefan Härtel · December 4, 1999, 18:26

Here's the link: http://www.louvre.fr/louvrea.htm
This leads you to the English section of the site. You will be guided to the Iranian art over the section "collections".

Further pics can be requested at my eMail: Stefan.Haertel@t-online.de

------------------
Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong.