No FREE MP = CANCEL your orders / DON'T buy Civ3

[drake]

Yin, give it up man. These people just don't enjoy the idea of competition. The prospect of losing doesnt appeal to these people. They like the "win everytime" comfort that comes with SP games. Can't convince them otherwise, so just let it go......

Nah! better to keep b1tching about firaxis and watch their delicate panties get in a bunch

It really is hilarious!

[Colonel Kraken]

I'd like to make a passionate protest and agree with Yin. It would make quite a statement to Firaxis (or at least the publisher) if thousands of would-be-buyers decided not to purchase Civ 3 (at least initially) on principle.

That Firaxis purported to include MP in Civ 3 and maintained that position (through silence) up until now is troubling at best. I, for one, cannot understand why they could not at least include Hotseat and PBEM with the initial release as these a relatively easy modifications to implement. If it had been concluded many months ago that MP would NOT be included with the initial release, why did Firaxis not jump on the tiger and grab it by the ears and announce their intentions. As Yin has pointed out before, they could have submited an official announcement stating: this is why we did it and this is what we're going to do to make it up to you.

Being practical, though, I know none of these positions are in the realm of reality. I know asking people not to by the initial release on principle is ludicrous. Personally, the only reason I really care is because I am adamant about having Hotseat capability so that I may play the game with my wife. Aside from that, I probably wouldn't care that much either. So I can understand those who need/want SP only willing to buy the game anyway.

Aside from all that, if there is one thing I've learned about initial game releases (and as Yin has stated before), there invariably is an expansion pack costing $30 (the original game usually costs $50). So you pay $80 for a more complete game. Then eventually there is a "Gold Edition" with the latest patch, new scenarios, and the expansion pack for around $45. Now, unless I'm crazy (or have plenty of money to blow), why not wait for that invariable "Gold Edition"? The only drawback I've noticed is that with very popular games, it takes a looonnnggg time for the Gold Edition to come out (i.e. Age of Empires).

For me personally, I cannot see shelling out my hard-earned cash for a game that does not have an essential component in it that I want, not to mention a component that was originally stated as being a part of the game.

I WILL wait, Yin. You can count me as one of the few to take your challenge and use my power as a consumer.

[Colonel Kraken]

Originally posted by drake
I hear europa universalis is good....oh and I think it came with MP features!

Yup! That's my Christmas game: EU II.

Nah, nah, Firaxis.

[Moral Hazard]

Wolfenstien is coming out on November 7th, so I'll have a new game to play. Not to mention finishing BG2, Giants, and Seadogs. So no I don't need Civ, like some of this ****ers.

It's amazing how people assume that MP is the only victim. I don't know, but I think it's possible there could be others, such as proper scenario support.

[Neuronix]

I'm very ready to cancel my LE pre-order. I agree with Yin, Firaxis has deliberately deceived us by telling us the MP would be a part of the game, then removing it from the game, and keeping the entire thing very hush-hush.

I'm waiting until I hear a statement on Firaxis on the issue, but if I don't hear anything, or I don't hear something I like, I'm definately cancelling it. If a free MP patch won't be released until at least May of 2002, then I will go buy Civ3 in May 2002 when it is $20 sitting in the EB bargain bin because the game is more or less long forgotten because of the lack of MP support. You think I trust a company to provide free updates? Unless they say "MP is coming very soon," I'm willing to bet that they would promise it in a patch and then put it in an expansion pack. Wouldn't be the first time I got burned like that.

Frankly, every game now includes MP support, and IMO the decision not to include MP will make the game only appeal to a small hardcore segment and the game, no matter how good the SP is, will fizzle out rather quickly.

[Steve Clark]

yin, why do you keep wasting your time here? Do you constantly feel the need to get your ego stroked??? I thought you were much more intelligent than someone who comes across whining publically because he didn't get all of his toys for Christmas.

My advice? Go play one of the many hundreds of other games, particularly the ones with MP. You do know about some of them, don't you?

Because of your immature rant, I went out and pre-ordered a SECOND copy of Civ3 LE.

I try to ignore any pre-release hype. To say that you (and others) were sold on the game because of the MP promise proves that you are shallow and gullible. I don't care about MP but I know others do. So don't buy it then, no big deal. And if some reason Civ3 can't support building scenarios, no big deal, I'll go buy and play something else.

So there.

[drake]

Yeah, what neuronix said

I'll look for civ 3 in the bargain bin

"but if I go cold, I won't get sold,
I get put in the back in the discount rack
Like another can of beans"

Kudos to whoever can identify where that line came from.

[Colonel Kraken]

Originally posted by Neuronix
. . . then I will go buy Civ3 in May 2002 when it is $20 sitting in the EB bargain bin because the game is more or less long forgotten because of the lack of MP support.

Umm, doubtful.

Frankly, every game now includes MP support, and IMO the decision not to include MP will make the game only appeal to a small hardcore segment and the game, no matter how good the SP is, will fizzle out rather quickly.

But you may have a point. If they're looking to target a new audience, they better take one serious hard look at the fact that MP is an assumed component of games nowadays.

Simply amazing, Firaxis.

[Jason Beaudoin]

YIN! WHY DO YOU HATE FIRAXIS SO MUCH? WHAT DID THEY DO TO YOU?

EXPLAIN!

[drake]

How about used him?

[Th0mas]

Originally posted by Ozymandous


What theories........

*snip*

....Heh, and I'll be playing the Gold version og Railroad Tycoon 2, Jagged Alliance 2, Age of Kings & Conquerors, finishing Icewind Dale, finishing Baldurs Gate 2, and maybe even Stronghold. I have plenty to do, and plenty of games to play. I guess that's why my game playing experience doesn't hinge on this one game (so I can wait) as others seem to do.

I refer you to mjs0's posts, as he explains it better than myself: apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=525463#post525463

however.....

I am glad that you have time to play all those games and I wish I had that luxury - unfortunately with two young children and a demanding wife - having my own time is rare and therefore by implication very precious. I have chosen to play CIV III in that time above all other contenders.

[HalfLotus]

I'll be happy with SP til MP comes out. Then I'll go buy MP. I'm happy to pay for good products, which I believe Civ3 will be.
Yin can do what he wants, and so can the rest of you. If you thinks it's worth it, buy it. If not, dont.

[Steve Clark]

Originally posted by drake
Yin, give it up man. These people just don't enjoy the idea of competition. The prospect of losing doesnt appeal to these people. They like the "win everytime" comfort that comes with SP games. Can't convince them otherwise, so just let it go......

drake, ever played a minor nation in one of the WW2 scenarios?

[Max Webster]

Go Yin Go

[August Borms]

Originally posted by drake
Yin, give it up man. These people just don't enjoy the idea of competition. The prospect of losing doesnt appeal to these people. They like the "win everytime" comfort that comes with SP games. Can't convince them otherwise, so just let it go......

TROLL!!!

You play Civ to win? How childish
More mature gamers like me prefer to roleplay which is virtually impossible online, because MP is ruled by 12year old kids.
I'll just stick to playing Civ3 SP and cheat to give the AI strategically important cities and lots of units. Will I ever lose in SP? No. Will I ever win? No, I'll just stop playing when I get bored with it.

Have fun playing Civ 2, AC, or CTP MP

[Max Webster]

I will

[LaRusso]

cmon, this has already been elaborated...
yin = sid

he is just teasing you people, or building his position for a clash with suits....

[Jahi]

i'm gonna buy it no matter what. the only MP i'm really looking for is PBEM anyway

[drake]

More mature gamers like me prefer to roleplay which is virtually impossible online, because MP is ruled by 12year old kids.

I may be a troll, but you're an ignorant dumbass. This isn't at all true.

Btw, the games I play are all about role playing. There are quite a few circles that use civ as a platform for role playing.

And how may I ask do you f*cking role play with the AI?! Role playing requires dialogue and interaction. And unless you have a friendly little sock you put on your hand and talk to while you play civ, there is no dialogue or interaction.

Winning is childish?
So I suppose any sort of competition is childish, because no one plays to lose, they play to win......I can just see it, Micheal Jordan or other athletes not playing hard or "quitting" because winning is "childish" .

drake, ever played a minor nation in one of the WW2 scenarios?

Nope sure havent.....I like building civs from the ground up and dealing with each aspect of the game......scenarios really aren't my thing........I'm sure it is a challenge, but its not the stock civ game that I'm talking about......

[Mannamagnus]

Riddle: Who's the elusive leader of the jihad against Firaxis?

[Mannamagnus]

Answer: Osama Yin Laden.

[LaRusso]

ummm, isaac brook?

[vonManstein]

Baaaa

I'm buying Civ 3.

And yes, I'm a sheep. A sheep that doesn't play MP.

[August Borms]

Originally posted by drake

I may be a troll, but you're an ignorant dumbass. This isn't at all true.


Btw, the games I play are all about role playing. There are quite a few circles that use civ as a platform for role playing.

And how may I ask do you f*cking role play with the AI?! Role playing requires dialogue and interaction. And unless you have a friendly little sock you put on your hand and talk to while you play civ, there is no dialogue or interaction.

If you're braindead, yes then you may need outside dialogue and interaction, real roleplayers use their creativity and imagination to create the perfect rp'ing experience

Quake 3 Arena can also be used "as a platform for roleplaying" according to some people

Winning is childish?
So I suppose any sort of competition is childish, because no one plays to lose, they play to win......I can just see it, Micheal Jordan or other athletes not playing hard or "quitting" because winning is "childish" .

Athletes their career is based on winning. Civ is just a game, not a competition. Unless you consider Civ your career

Teacher: "Jimmy, what do you want to do when you grow up?"
Jimmy: "I want to play and win Civ3 mp!!1"

Unemployment Office: "So... mr Jim, what kind of job would you prefer?"
Jim: "I want to play and win Civ3 mp!!1"

[Pembleton]

Everyone has a right to complain and should do so.

But the posts here, most especially the original one sound like we were being oppressed by the government by having our civil liberties violated or freedom of speech taken away. If you people protested with this much passion about more important causes such as global human rights or something, the world might be a little better off.

It's a game people! Get a life! I know this may sound offensive or insulting, but this is not my intention.

I've been disappointed many times by games. The latest is the huge debacle of Pool of Radiance in which they released a game that could not be installed on some computers and even had the possibility of deleting important windows files during uninstall. I posted for a while in the POR forums for a while before that game was released but did I stick around and constantly complain? No. I have deleted that forum from my favorites and will never return.

You people could do all us sheep a favor by leaving for a while and come back when MP is released. I want to hear some constructive criticism rather than whining about that MP is not being released.

And Yin26! You aren't getting the game until May even if it did have MP! Go do something else! Why are you still here? And, I repeat, I don't mean to be insulting, I just don't understand why you people must continue to say the same thing over and over and over and over and over. Do something productive that will make you happy! As much as you complain, the game's gold. There is no MP. Sorry. Move on.

We've heard the same exact thing before and don't need it to be repeated again and again and again and again. Good Lord.



Now I know you people will continue to complain and this post will do no good to stop them from happening. But I just had to voice my opinion.

[drake]

If you're braindead, yes then you may need outside dialogue and interaction, real roleplayers use their creativity and imagination to create the perfect rp'ing experience

Bet you feel the same way about your love life too. Why find a real partner when I can dream up one?

Civ is just a game, but so is baseball, or football. Just because people pay to see it does not mean it isn't still just a game.

I play civ for recreation. I don't play because I want to be the best in the world or be the "king of civ". But i sure as hell play to win. Everyone does. No one starts a game thinking "I am going to shoot for the #3 best civ this game". Do you assut?

Your argument is weak and your "facts" about the MP community are laughably in-accurate.

[Adm.Naismith]

Originally posted by Colonel Kraken
That Firaxis purported to include MP in Civ 3 and maintained that position (through silence) up until now is troubling at best. I, for one, cannot understand why they could not at least include Hotseat and PBEM with the initial release as these a relatively easy modifications to implement. If it had been concluded many months ago that MP would NOT be included with the initial release, why did Firaxis not jump on the tiger and grab it by the ears and announce their intentions. As Yin has pointed out before, they could have submited an official announcement stating: this is why we did it and this is what we're going to do to make it up to you.

Ladies and Gentlemen, you can see the point is not if you'll play MP or not. The point is if Firaxis was promising a main game feature or not while shops already accepted Pre-Order.

Sure, products can be under change, but you can accept this for minor point of the game (some units, some change on interface, etc.).

OTOH, are the shops who offer pre-order and are customers ready to sign for them well before they know the game enough.

I simply miss the needs for a preorder of a game, if you haven't others benefits (e.g. lower price or some free add-on).

In a fair market pre-ordering customers should at least deserve a free upgrade to promised feature (i.e. MP), still if others customers would have a choice to buy a game SP as-is (but knowing what they are paying for) and pay an MP expansion later.

Yin, you use too much bold and large fonts in your initial post, IMHO. You also spent too much effort for people who don't want to listen to yours (and others) advices.

This is a crusade who can't rescue any soul, Yin. Let them alone with their unlimited faith and enjoy others pleasure

[freemen]

I only trust 2 or 3 game compagny. One is Strategy First, who release Sudden Strike, Westwood, even if the late game they release wasnt the product i want it, and Sid Meier. I know with those compagny I can get quality game, that respond that what i need in a game. I dont give **** that other people said about MP. I always think that civilisation is a SP games and I havent played to MP civilisation. Some games are Mp like command and conquer or any RTS game. But an Turn-Base game who go MP, and u have to wait 10 min to play your turn is call a game. If u dont want to buy the game unless he has MP, then good, it will have more to the people who want the game and give **** about if MP is it or not in the package

[Taliseian]

I don't post on the boards very often. Usually, what I want to say has already been said (as I will freely admit at the start that this is the case here).

When I bought my first computer, the guy who sold it to me new threw in a copy of any game that I wanted to play. The game that I got was Civilization.

I was hooked.

No doubt about it.

My wife (now ex) was pissed at how much time I would spend playing Civ.

When Civ II came out, I was the first at my local EB to pre-order and pick up the game...waiting at the store for it to open that day to get it (I had taken the day off just for Civ II).

I was the same way when Alpha Centauri came out.

Thru all those games, not once did I have the slightest desire to play against another human.

I've done many hot seat games of Warlords II (now that was a fun hot seater), and several PBEM games of Advanced Civ (by Avalon Hill). I could possibly be interested in doing someting like that for Civ II or SMAC, but the one thing that kills it for me everytime is my own personal play style.

I'm guilty of taking forever on turns. I know I'd piss off everyone in the game because I micromanage. Or, I'd be pissed off if I didn't have enough time to play.

If an adequate PBEM mode for Civ III were made available, I would be interested, but it is not a hot selling point for me.

But hot seat or MP?? No way.

Yin, if this is your cause, I wish you the best. If this is something that drives you everyday....just like I was driven when Civ came out, and when Civ II came out, and when SMAC came out I hope you get what you want.

You'll find no support from me, tho.



Taliseian

[yin26]

Yin - I wish I had the strength of will to cancel my order, but I don't so I won't but I support anyone who decides not to buy the game because of this.

Hey, totally understood...and thanks for the support anyway.

I WILL wait, Yin. You can count me as one of the few to take your challenge and use my power as a consumer.

Right on! And to some of the other great support posts here: Thanks for your clear view of the situation!

Ladies and Gentlemen, you can see the point is not if you'll play MP or not. The point is if Firaxis was promising a main game feature or not while shops already accepted Pre-Order.

AB-SO-FRIGGEN-LUTELY! (...just for that, I'll reduce my font size...)

Like I made absolutely clear despite the large fonts and colors some people ignored (Hello, Steve?), I am not against MP being delayed, etc. But I am TOTALLY against MP being hyped up as part of the game, being leaked out as NOT in the game in an unprofessional e-mail, and then again only being totally unprofessionally confirmed as NOT in by some gaming magazine interview.

Pathetic.

You guys who buy this game DESERVE any crap Firaxis decides to shove down your throats. So why do I hang around? To watch you come to realize you should have spent your money when the advertised game was actually available.

But hey...if you guys don't mind paying once to be beta testers and once AGAIN for the complete product, feel free. I'll thank you for your hard work later.