No FREE MP = CANCEL your orders / DON'T buy Civ3

[Father Beast]

Originally posted by drake


"but if I go cold, I won't get sold,
I get put in the back in the discount rack
Like another can of beans"

Kudos to whoever can identify where that line came from.

wups, can't I dentify that, but your sig is from the classic Blue Oyster Cult song "Godzilla"

[Jason Beaudoin]

One point that Yin's correct about is that Firaxis did say that this game would be multiplayer, and they did start taking pre-orders before they anounced that it would be in there. So, in a way, those customers that were buying this game for the multiplayer portion of it are getting screwed royally.

So, I you actually do have a point Yin, even though you're usually incredibly biased in your opinions.

For what it's worth, MP is not that important to me, and I'm going to buy the game anyway.

[Shiva]

Originally posted by Ozymandous



Oh, regarding the lemming/sheep comment, well, what do you call folks who blindly take whatever they are given with no questions asked? Even if it has less than promised, even if it is of low quality? What do you call that? I'd call it someone who is a "follower" hence the lemming and/or sheep comment.

I dont know if I would call people who buy something a name if I didnt know why they bought it. But I do know I would call a person who would lable such people in one broad catigory without knowing the facts ignorant.

It is funny how on most of the game boards you'll find doomsayers ready to save everyone from themselves and when their told to get lost because some people can think for themselves they call everyone sheep or lemmings.

I havnt pre ordered the game. I'll buy the game when I decide I have enough information to. So will most of the other people. Some will buy it just for the reasons you state but to paint everyone with the same brush is ignorance at best and stupidity at the worst.

You see some of us dont need doomsayers because following them is just as bad as following a company.

[Father Beast]

Gosh, I go away for a few hours and this thread explodes.

Personally, I don't care about MP, and won't pay for it if/when it comes out. some of you do.

In fact, a lot of you say that civ is pretty much without challenge except for multiplayer. Those of you who say that, hold your money until it comes.

But to suggest that I hold my money back as some abstract form of punishment is absurd. First, I doubt my dollars make that much difference. second, if my dollars did make such a difference, then I would be hurting Civ a lot more than the company. The bigwigs would declare that civ just isn't interesting to people anymore, and ignore the idiocy that led to it.

Case in point: Diablo II. I was ( and still am) a regular addict of Diablo. Natch, I was VERY interested in the release of D2. but they implemented the lousy save system from MP games (which I about never played), and failed to make a decent single player game. It's all about the save system. I can't stand it, and uninstalled the demo I spent 9 hours downloading.

NOW, do most of you care that I don't like the save system, and refuse to buy it unless they fix it? No.

Do all of us SP players care that you MPers are ticked about no MP in civ3? well, it bugs us from a certain point of view, but really no.

sorry if we won't support your Ire. It looks like I got most of what I wanted. you guys wait.

[Steve Clark]

Come on, yin, we've gone round and round on this before, hence the smily thingies. In fact, much of what I wrote was a copy and paste from an earlier response to you. You say the same things and I reply saying the same things.

But seriously, you do come on with the same attitude (just like I do concerning the irrelevance of default stuff in the game ). We heard you the first time. But the real question is...

How many folks pre-ordered assuming that MP would be in the game? (With no official announcement, you know what happens when folks ass-u-me?)

If some did, let them cancel as you said. But I would argue that just learning the mechanics and nuances of the game in SP would help in MP, if/when it gets here. In that case, I wouldn't advice folks to not buy the game.

[Ralf]

Originally posted by yin26
Hey: I've already dedicated more hours to Civ3 than many of you ever will. If I feel like b!itching now, you'd better get used to it. Don't like it? Too damn bad.

This attidude of yours reminds me somewhat of Robert de Niro's role-character Gil Renard, in the movie "The Fan".

The movie is about a dedicated baseball-fan (Robert de Niro) that transformed his whole life around baseball and his favourite player (Wesley Snipes). After a while Robert de Niro's character feels that he have invested so much time and energy into this, that he now have earned the right to demand.

For some twisted reason he feels that his favourite player now owes him something. Despite the fact that nobody demanded anything from him, or twisted his arm in the first place.

---------------------------------------------

Yin26 - ask yourself: What is most valuable for the Civ-3 game?

If they release a complete SP-game by october-30, that means by the time the expected expansion-pack (bundled with complete MP) is released, the previously released SP-game have had 6+ whole months of public playing, scrutiny & feedback on several hundredthousands of different hardvare/software-configurations, with countless of contrastingly different playingstyles.
There is simply no way one can compare that with 6+ months of continued in-house 10+ staff-member play-testing.

Then they finally release the MP-bundled extension-pack, they also had an additional 6+ months of developing-time invested in bug-squashing, extension-pack features + the multiplayer part.

IF Firaxis really feel secure & confident with a october-30 SP-release (and only Firaxis staff-members knows if SP feels "rushed"; "uncompleted" or not - not you, nor anybody else), then having that 6+ months worth of public playing, scrutiny & feedback is a godsend for the SP-part, and for the expected expansion-pack + multiplayer part as well. If above is true, then Firaxis choosen release-strategy, really IS the best possible one available.

[splangy]

Hmmmm should I

A: Buy a game Ill love (yes, im positive)
or
B: Listen to some loser on a abstract site who has no life, and is trying to force me to follow his veiws.

hmmm this sure is a tuff one

Yin=Loser with NO life

[faded glory]

[Pembleton]

Originally posted by faded glory

[Shiva]

Originally posted by Pembleton

[MarkG]

this thread would be much better if

some people didnt shout,

some other people didnt attack other people but instead "attack" their arguments,

and some other other people use more than a smiley to express themselves

[drake]

Splangy, please. Little kiddies like you, who will have to rely on mommy and daddy to buy games for them really can't say much.

And trust me, this "abstract site" wouldn't mind seeing you and your little prepubscent ass leave

13 year old with a big mouth everyone. Don't get too excited.

Mark, you know personal insult contests are more popular than rational debate. No different here than the ot. Right boss?

[Pembleton]

Originally posted by MarkG
this thread would be much better if

and some other other people use more than a smiley to express themselves

I thought the smileys put some much needed humor into a pretty heated debate.

There are some debates that I think should remain serious, like those on current events or political situations.

But it disturbs me when people just become *way* too serious about a game! Yes, be serious to an extent, but you just have to reflect and laugh when you really see how unimportant this is in the big picture of your life.

If you disagree, well I feel sorry that Civ is that important of an issue in your life, and hope that other things will someday become more important, like your family, your health, or whatever.

[Shiva]

Originally posted by MarkG

and some other other people use more than a smiley to express themselves

Sorry, I was just being a sheep

[Ozymandous]

Originally posted by Utrecht

Finally, relax - there are things to get mad about - especially when there are bombs being dropped in the world and there are things not to - Civ3.

No need to get mad about bombs dropping in some part of the world, if folks didn't try to force their beliefs down other people's throats things would never get to that stage (take that as you will).

Finally, as one of the more vocal people standing on the side of "don't promise what you can't deliver and if you can't deliver at least notify ASAP" I can say that I am relaxed. This forum is something to do while I am bored at work.

All issues aside I hope Firaxis didn't do what Blizzard did: release an xpack finishing the game for almost the same price as the full game and then release the gold edition 2 months later for the cost of the original game. That's my biggest fear and something I hope doesn't happen to this great series.

[drake]

I can say that I am relaxed. This forum is something to do while I am bored at work.

Sounds familiar

[Christantine The Great]

As soon as I saw the ALL CAPS parts of this thread I knew it would be a bloody battleground.

Maybe if the thread was named in a calm way (Like "CivIII: No MP. Should you bother?") and spoken in a civil tone but since it wasn't:

I'm getting it. I'm not even going to consider what was written in this thread. I'm so sorry and I'll let you sheer my wool if you'd like.

Four legs GOOD, two legs BAD.

[Pembleton]

Originally posted by Ozymandous
All issues aside I hope Firaxis didn't do what Blizzard did: release an xpack finishing the game for almost the same price as the full game and then release the gold edition 2 months later for the cost of the original game. That's my biggest fear and something I hope doesn't happen to this great series.

Really? Which game was this? I didn't know they did this. I have bought all of their games except for Diablo 1, and I hardly ever played Starcraft, so I didn't get the expansion for that one.

[Christantine The Great]

(Psss! I've seen the most insults from the non-CivIII side... Baaaa!)

[Pembleton]

Originally posted by Christantine The Great
I'm getting it. I'm not even going to consider what was written in this thread. I'm so sorry and I'll let you sheer my wool if you'd like.

You are defnitely *not* missing anything.

[drake]

No you didnt miss anything

But the mp "camp" could always use another mudslinger and I know you've been a pretty avid pbem player.

What part of Mass you from?

[ancient]

do we even no for sure theres no multiplayer?

theyd have to be crazy not to impliment it.. theyve obviously seen how po'd some of you are..

why would they ask us questions about how we wanted multiplayer to be like if they didnt want multiplayer in game?

i wouldnt want to pay for cus im not big on mp but i dont think its right to buy a game cause of lack of multiplayer?

who cares about mp much it probably wont even be done well.. tbs games arent good mp games..

free download wouldnt bother me, but if its a pay by month thing i wont do it..

i have such a headache...

[Ozymandous]

Originally posted by Shiva


I dont know if I would call people who buy something a name if I didnt know why they bought it. But I do know I would call a person who would lable such people in one broad catigory without knowing the facts ignorant.

It is funny how on most of the game boards you'll find doomsayers ready to save everyone from themselves and when their told to get lost because some people can think for themselves they call everyone sheep or lemmings.

I havnt pre ordered the game. I'll buy the game when I decide I have enough information to. So will most of the other people. Some will buy it just for the reasons you state but to paint everyone with the same brush is ignorance at best and stupidity at the worst.

You see some of us dont need doomsayers because following them is just as bad as following a company.

Without knowing all the facts? Facts are gathered from the posts people make when they say "Civ3 will be the best game ever", "I don't care what may be missing I have pre-ordered Civ3 simply because Sid made it", etc.

These are the people I call lemmings, the people who blindly trust a brand name regardless of finding out the facts of the case.

Everyone is a lemming and/or sheep at one point or another, that's how life is.

Regarding the "doom sayer" commnet, show me where once I said the game was going to suck as a statement of fact. You won't find one place where I said that. My general feelings are as follows (for the X number of times!):

1) I don't like the fact Firaxis promised MP and then wouldn't officially own up to the fact it wasn't in the game. I never expected the world from Civ3, heck, until 6 months ago I didn't even know it was being developed. I just want to be told when major items, that could affect my purchase decision, and what some based their purchase decision on, are removed from the game.
2) I hope Civ3 will be good, because I will probably get it, but I will wait to see from the reports (hopefully unbiased) people will post here once they play it.
3) I am tired of having to buy expansion packs or having to download multiple patches to fix game balance issues that should have never made it out the door. I am not talking about minor tweaks, I am talking about things that literally break the game one way or another.

Now then, with that out of the way I want to offer congratulations on your waiting to find out information on the game before rushing out and buying it. You claim that most people will wait and do the same, maybe so, but I'll still try to convince those who are blindly rushing in to at least buy the game somewhere they can take it back to if needed.

Oh, and it's good that people don't "follow" the pied pipers or the doom sayers because people should think on their own.

[Pembleton]

Originally posted by ancient
do we even no for sure theres no multiplayer?

Well there are some who still want to give their *interpretation* that MP may still be included which seems pretty desperate to me. But here is the quote and the link:

Link to Johnson interview

"GameSpin: Any multiplayer?

Johnson: No. We're working on multiplayer but we're not ready to make any announcements about how it will be implemented. "

[Ozymandous]

Originally posted by Father Beast

Case in point: Diablo II. I was ( and still am) a regular addict of Diablo. Natch, I was VERY interested in the release of D2. but they implemented the lousy save system from MP games (which I about never played), and failed to make a decent single player game. It's all about the save system. I can't stand it, and uninstalled the demo I spent 9 hours downloading.

Heh, glad you saved your money on D2. Better to have never played the game at all than to see the broken wreck it became after their supposed "improvement" of an expansion pack.

[Christantine The Great]

Originally posted by drake
No you didnt miss anything

But the mp "camp" could always use another mudslinger and I know you've been a pretty avid pbem player.

What part of Mass you from?

I've played a few SMAC PBEMs and, I believe, the first succession game for a while. I live near Boston (too paranoid to tell you the town).

[Inverse Icarus]

for all you people who say "im not buying civ3 without mp", i know your lying.

you know your obsessed. if you're on apolyton debating this fact, you have to love civ.

you dont just hear about a game and spend 3 months or more talking about it and researching it only to not buy it.

firaxis got you good, now bend over and pay.

[Earthling7]

I am not cancelling my Tin Can for some MP stuff that I may or may not use.

[bogi]

I thought CTP1 and CTP2 were great games. Its just that hardcore civers couldnt accept it because sids name wasnt on it.


BTW where is this "leaked Email?"

[SmartFart]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Sorry, don't give a damn about MP.

Sure you don't. I also hate games where I have to use my imaginations,intelligence,math,foreign languages,social interactions,my ability to learn,when I have to make new friends all over the globe and such a boring and idiotic concept in total.

SF