No FREE MP = CANCEL your orders / DON'T buy Civ3 - Page 5

Shiva · October 11, 2001, 16:47

Quote:

Originally posted by Ozymandous

Without knowing all the facts? Facts are gathered from the posts people make when they say "Civ3 will be the best game ever", "I don't care what may be missing I have pre-ordered Civ3 simply because Sid made it", etc.

These are the people I call lemmings, the people who blindly trust a brand name regardless of finding out the facts of the case.

Everyone is a lemming and/or sheep at one point or another, that's how life is.

You miss the point. If they buy something then they have crossed whatever threshold of information and fact they needed.
Just because it doesnt match your own does not make any less valid. It most certainly doesnt warrant calling them sheep. Just because someone trusts Firaxis doesnt make it blind trust. I trust them. They havnt done anything to really torque me off. When they do I'll add them to EA and Sierra. Its still a matter of thresholds of the people. I dont call people who love games from Sierra "sheep".

Quote:

Originally posted by Ozymandous

Regarding the "doom sayer" comment, show me where once I said the game was going to suck as a statement of fact. You won't find one place where I said that. My general feelings are as follows (for the X number of times!):

The doomsayer comment wasnt aimed at you. Looking back it I should have made that clear or just replied to AH. Sorry about that. That was general opinion on people like Yin and spamcanman (AH since he was the first to toss the sheep in this thread) and others like them that seem to be found in every board. But the point again was that "sheep" comments are baseless and tossed anytime they meet resistance and are always painting with the broad brush.

Shiva · October 11, 2001, 16:51

Quote:

Originally posted by bogi
I thought CTP1 and CTP2 were great games. Its just that hardcore civers couldnt accept it because sids name wasnt on it.

Ummm I couldnt accept it because it sucked for me. I also hate cheese on my hamburger, doesnt make me a hardcore hamburger lover.

Shiva · October 11, 2001, 16:55

Quote:

Originally posted by SmartFart

Sure you don't. I also hate games where I have to use my imaginations,intelligence,math,foreign languages,social interactions,my ability to learn,when I have to make new friends all over the globe and such a boring and idiotic concept in total.

SF

And because he doesnt care about MP you equate that with the rest of your silly statement?

Some people really make you wonder.

Ozymandous · October 11, 2001, 16:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Pembleton

(Regarding Blizzard)
Really? Which game was this? I didn't know they did this. I have bought all of their games except for Diablo 1, and I hardly ever played Starcraft, so I didn't get the expansion for that one.

Diablo 2. Original game, June-July 2000, Expansion pack July 2001, Gold pack September-October 2001 (with original Diablo1 included).

Diablo 2 = $50
Expansion pack = $40

Gold pack = $50

Ozymandous · October 11, 2001, 17:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Shiva

You miss the point. If they buy something then they have crossed whatever threshold of information and fact they needed.
Just because it doesnt match your own does not make any less valid. It most certainly doesnt warrant calling them sheep. Just because someone trusts Firaxis doesnt make it blind trust. I trust them. They havnt done anything to really torque me off. When they do I'll add them to EA and Sierra. Its still a matter of thresholds of the people. I dont call people who love games from Sierra "sheep".

Heh, call me pessimistic and I'll agree with you. Seems that too many games are released half-complete and full of bugs. Ranting helps pass the time until patches come out anyway...

Quote:

The doomsayer comment wasnt aimed at you. Looking back it I should have made that clear or just replied to AH. Sorry about that. That was general opinion on people like Yin and spamcanman (AH since he was the first to toss the sheep in this thread) and others like them that seem to be found in every board. But the point again was that "sheep" comments are baseless and tossed anytime they meet resistance and are always painting with the broad brush.

Heh, that sheep thing really stuck with you, eh? Even if, as you said to me, it wasn't aimed at those who don't buy the game as soon as it hits the stores?

Aww, come on, you know I was just kidding right? Right? Anywho this debate has been fun, bvut it's 5 o'clock and time to go. At least I got to warlord status from this thread..

*whistles as he walks out the door*

No hard feelings.

Oh, and buy the way, I have been a sheep and buying a game just becuase of who makes it only to have it turn into a coaster many times myself. I just don't like to see others have to deal with that, maybe all the pessimistic talk will spur some non-fanatic thoughts either way (doubt it, but fun to do).

Steve Clark · October 11, 2001, 17:08

CtG: It couldn't be that way because yin is still pissed that all of the work the "he" did on the List didn't turn Civ3 into a "revolutionary" game and thus, he missed his chance at it becoming Sid Meier's and Yin26's Civilization III.

SmartFart · October 11, 2001, 17:11

Quote:

Originally posted by Shiva

And because he doesnt care about MP you equate that with the rest of your silly statement?

Some people really make you wonder.

You're his lawyer or Firaxis employee? Or both?

And because I don't like SP you equate that with your idiotic remarks?

What's your point anyway?

Steve Clark · October 11, 2001, 17:15

Ozy: In my case, at least, it's not about blind loyalty. I couldn't less about that. Simply put, I love Civ2 so maybe I'll love Civ3 as well. Unlike yin, whose past efforts made him believe that Firaxis owes him a revolutionary game, I really don't care if I get Civ3 or not. Sure I would love to play it but if not, there are games to play and things to do.

But even with that attitude, that shouldn't stop anyone from offering suggestions, fixes, ideas, etc. For example, I hope they implement my idea of randomizing civ attributes. If they do, fine, if not, that's fine too. Just know that we are fans, no more or less important than any other customers from the company's perspective.

Juggernaut · October 11, 2001, 17:16

If one wants to socialize, one goes to the pub. Civ is all about locking oneself in.

squid · October 11, 2001, 17:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Osweld
I'll buy it just to tick yin off.

Here here!

(I just play SP anyway. I like to play games over several days and when I want to. Multiplayer civ sort of fits insomniacs or school kids, but not me)

Shiva · October 11, 2001, 17:31

Quote:

Originally posted by SmartFart

What's your point anyway?

The point is your statement you made based on him not likeing caring about MP you makeout that he doesnt like those things also is stupid. Really comes off sounding childish.

Shiva · October 11, 2001, 17:35

Quote:

Originally posted by Ozymandous

Heh, that sheep thing really stuck with you, eh? Even if, as you said to me, it wasn't aimed at those who don't buy the game as soon as it hits the stores?

Naaa its just one of the terms I see tossed around too much and it just rubs me the wrong way.

Colonel Kraken · October 11, 2001, 17:49

Quote:

Originally posted by Jingo
for all you people who say "im not buying civ3 without mp", i know your lying.

you know your obsessed. if you're on apolyton debating this fact, you have to love civ.

you dont just hear about a game and spend 3 months or more talking about it and researching it only to not buy it.

firaxis got you good, now bend over and pay.

Wow, UberKrux, you're as bad as Provost H. . . . candid and make no bones about it.

The funny thing is, you're probably right. I started a thread quite a while ago "You'll Buy It, And You Know It" because I was sick of all the whining about the game, when I knew those who were whining about it were going to be the first ones to buy the game. But I have to say, that was all before the MP issue. You're probably still right, though.

As for me and my house, however, I'm waiting for Hotseat.

Takeshi · October 11, 2001, 18:32

For those of you trying to make sense of this thread:

-It started as an attack on Firaxis' misleading advertising of Multiplayer.

-Due to a combination of sensationalism, misdirection and misinterpretation, many have thought this was an attack on the actual game itself instead of the advertising of the game.

-Once the first shot was fired... well, the mud just flies.

And to those who claim that the game can't be resisted, I have never bought Civ, but picked up Civnet. I never bought CivII, but picked up the gold edition. I intend to repeat the same course of action for CivIII. So yes, it can be done.

cassembler · October 11, 2001, 18:59

It tickles me so...
So many people's lives wrecked, tattered, ruined because of no MP... for a video game...

sob

poor multiplayers...

cassembler · October 11, 2001, 19:04

Yeah that last one will probably come out mean, but hey, Yin does have some kinda point. One would think, though, that he is in as much fault as Firaxis for assuming that MP existed. Assumptions are the root of all evil, give or take, kinda, somewhat.

yin26 · October 11, 2001, 19:12

I made no assumptions about anything. Firaxis hyped their wild and sexy multiplayer, and it was one of the things that made me think Civ3 would be brining something really new to the table.

If that MP is taking a long time to make...then make an official announcement.

If that MP is going to be given out free or in an X-pack...then make an official announcement.

And as for the other (various) troll comments lobbed at me: I don't think Firaxis 'owes' me a damn thing except basic, common courtesy. At this point, how can I possibly make a decision to buy the game when an important element of it will be missing and I have no idea if they'll charge me AGAIN later just to get it?

And, yes, I feel that the time that I AND MANY OTHERS here spent toward giving Firaxis ideas (which now seem in magazine articles to have been invented at Firaxis) should have told Firaxis at the very least:

Hey, let's at least keep the fans informed so they know what's up.

tniem · October 11, 2001, 19:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Steve Clark
Ozy: In my case, at least, it's not about blind loyalty. I couldn't less about that. Simply put, I love Civ2 so maybe I'll love Civ3 as well. Unlike yin, whose past efforts made him believe that Firaxis owes him a revolutionary game, I really don't care if I get Civ3 or not. Sure I would love to play it but if not, there are games to play and things to do.

Well Steve, I guess than you wouldn't agree that Firaxis has one of the best deals around. They are simply updating a game that has been around for ten years. Few new game concepts. And of course some art changes. Hopefully the AI is better, but essentially the exact same game that I have been playing for a decade. I will buy this game but not until the price goes down.

Yin put a lot into this game and I can't understand how you cannot at least acknowledge that he has a right to be pissed off by it all. He expected a company to treat us all with some respect. By making some upgrades to the genre and to actually tell us some degree of truths. They did neither. I for one am pissed off about it. This thread did not convince me to keep my money but a long thoughtful process of realizing that Civ 3 was doomed by the bottom lines of Infogrames. Hopefully by saving myself a few dollars I get Infogrames to at least reconsider on MOO3. Hopefully that game will save the TBS genre, because Civ 3 is just a rehash of what has already been released.

yin26 · October 11, 2001, 19:14

And as for why I brought this up again (as if I have to justify myself, which I don't): Soren just mentioned it in an interview in the clearest terms we've seen yet...besides the leaked e-mail, of course.

yin26 · October 11, 2001, 19:17

tniem: Thanks. I know I am a pain at times.

And do I think my thread with change people's minds? No, not really. But when newcomers visit here, I hope they at least know about the rumors of the hints of the leaks of the ...

Shiva · October 11, 2001, 20:32

Quote:

Originally posted by tniem

Well Steve, I guess than you wouldn't agree that Firaxis has one of the best deals around. They are simply updating a game that has been around for ten years. Few new game concepts. And of course some art changes. Hopefully the AI is better, but essentially the exact same game that I have been playing for a decade.

You can say that about simcity, Railroad tycoon, Quake, Airwarrior,warcraft, and so on and so on. Its the way of the market. Why did Civ 2 do so well? Because it was evolutionary not revolutionary. There isnt a need to start from scratch or adding so much that you lose the foundation of the game. If someone here feels slighted or their feelings got hurt thats life.

They have to make choices that are driven by money. Im sure they would have loved to add a bunch of other stuff too but because of time and cash they couldnt. Thats the way it goes it happens all the time with games. Just because a fan puts in a bunch of suggestions the company owes him? Maybe having your name in the manual or something but it doesnt mean they will do something to effect the bottom line. They have a job to do, they are the ones who decide what is done, and they are the ones who are on the firing line when the game sinks or swims. Not some fans with brused egos and no idea whats going on behind the doors. Right to be pissed off indeed

yin26 · October 11, 2001, 20:44

Quote:

Just because a fan puts in a bunch of suggestions the company owes him?

It's not the any one person that really matters. It's the overall attitude that can, does and IS hurting your coveted 'bottom line.'

Shiva · October 11, 2001, 20:50

Quote:

Originally posted by yin26

It's not the any one person that really matters. It's the overall attitude that can, does and IS hurting your coveted 'bottom line.'

Yes im sure the vast public is paying attention to the soapopera that goes on here

yin26 · October 11, 2001, 20:53

Yeah, and I'm sure the vast public is gonna pleased as all hell when MP -- a basic feature -- is missing despite any official statements from the company.

yin26 · October 11, 2001, 20:54

And it's actually your problem not to realize that shitty PR hurts the bottom line.

Shiva · October 11, 2001, 20:58

Quote:

Originally posted by yin26
And it's actually your problem not to realize that shitty PR hurts the bottom line.

You really dont understan that most of the people who are going to buy this game never have or will vist here do you? You really dont understand that most people will have any idea that MP was going to be in it to start. Its a small small world you live in.