This could be an important failure in Civ III???

Kramsib · October 11, 2001, 09:41

I know that Civ III has gone gold but I found these possible failures today when I was coming back from university.

I would be very pleased if you could give me some answers to these problems.

Let's go.

I haven't got Civ III so I will expone my statements with a picture made with the help of the Civ II Map Editor (r), and Paintbrush (r).

Please, look at the image that I have attached, there are two cases I want to explain to the community.

1) If we have a city very simmilar to the Spanish one in the picture, how can we take the source (silk) marked in pink?, As you can see to buid a road to connect with the source which is on an island is impossible. Even building a colony is useless because a road is needed.

Note: Although it seems that the city and the source are on the same continent, they aren't, the source is on an island, please excuse my little image.

A solution could be, "trade" by sea between the port in the city, and a "virtual" or "external" port in a colony which would be on the other island. If anyone have other ideas I would like to read them.

2) The Aztecs have a city, in the picture, wich is near sea but there is no sea adyacent square, so this city have two sea squares and it cannot build any port or any sea facility, even it cannot build naval units to defend itself better, in addition to this, it can trade with other cities only by road.

I am sure that you are fed up this kind of cities which the AI builds in the game, and when you conquer them you cannot change their placement because they are too big to do it.

My proposal is to be able to build "external ports" on the blue marked squares in the same way a colony or a farm can be built, in order to take advance of the sources from the sea by this kind of cities.

In addition to this, they must be joined by road (squares marked on green) with the ports because they are needed in order to transport materials within the port and the city.

What do you think about it?

Thank you for your attention.

Kramsib · October 11, 2001, 09:59

As everybody know, sea squares are quite unproductive and if you are not able to build a port or a platform to increase the number of food and shields by sea square is an important restriction to global production in the city.

That is the reason of my proposal of building that ports, fortress and platforms outdoors.

Thank you again.

PDT.

Please, tell me what do you think about this.

Grumbold · October 11, 2001, 11:13

The only solution to the 1 tile island is to build a city right on top of it. Once that city has a port improvement it can then connect to the continental cities.

I believe Civ III includes options to allow removeal of badly placed AI cities on capture. Your own cities should naturally be placed to take advantage of good port positions.

Dknight · October 11, 2001, 11:21

We haven't seen the new map on Civ III, maybe there ain't any one tile islands anymore

Nikolai · October 11, 2001, 11:25

My answer on the poll is no! I have blind trust in Firaxis!

Kramsib · October 11, 2001, 12:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Grumbold
The only solution to the 1 tile island is to build a city right on top of it. Once that city has a port improvement it can then connect to the continental cities.

I believe Civ III includes options to allow removeal of badly placed AI cities on capture. Your own cities should naturally be placed to take advantage of good port positions.

Ok, ok, I know you can build a city in that island, but imagine that the terrain is too bad or it is a difficult place to defend or any other problem that makes building a city there a bad decission. I know it would be a very strange situation but it would be a restriction to playability.

Now imagine that a conquered city is bad placed and you want to remove it, but it has a Wonder, OH NOOOOO

WHAT CAN WE DO?.

About islands in the new maps in Civ III, imagine the problem in a Scenario in the Pacific with on source in each island.

Thank you again.

Grumbold · October 11, 2001, 12:36

If the city has a wonder, keep the city. You don't have to have every city as a port, just one or two to get those resources ferried in. Anywhere a city would be a bad choice a colony is likely a worse one.

Very fertile/rich one-tile islands will be for you to decide whether they are worth a city or not. In scenarios you can always spam the designer if you hate the idea

Kramsib · October 11, 2001, 12:57

What I wanted to express was:

The problem of colonies is that, Sometimes building a city in an island where the terrain is bad, is not worthwhile, but if there is an important source that you need and do you want to use a colony to take that source, my question is,

Would it be possible to take an important source with a colony from an island that is not worthwhile building a city without a road within the colony and another of my cities?

Now, the second problem.

If a city have some sea squares but none of them adyacent, and it cannot build facilities to get more sources from those sea squares, that city's production would be fewer than the production of the same city with only one more sea square which was adjacent, so this is discrimination and really annoying.

Imagine the extreme case, an island of 9 squares forming a perfect square and the city is in the centre, so, no adjacent sea squares, there will be 12 squares without the possibility to improve. The most useless city in the world.

Now imagine that it has a Wonder that you need, so you cannot destroy it. Traslade it is absurd. "external ports"? why not?, or even, I have a better idea:

Allow building naval facilities in cities which has at least one sea square in their sourrounding area. (Not naval units, but at least the naval facilities).

Thank you very much.

Inverse Icarus · October 11, 2001, 16:51

you'll have to wait for airports.

Asesino_Virtual · October 11, 2001, 17:13

http://www.tothegame.com/boxshot.asp...t_uk_large.jpg

Sabre2th · October 11, 2001, 17:25

If these 'problems' are still in civ3, I will not lose sleep or even care too much. They are minor details that, IMO, don't deserve special attention.

Also - As Firaxis has said, the new map generator is quite a bit better than civ2's.

Juggernaut · October 11, 2001, 17:27

Not very likely.

Sarxis · October 11, 2001, 19:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Sabre2th
Also - As Firaxis has said, the new map generator is quite a bit better than civ2's.

This, compounded with the experience of developing/testing/playing the other 3 Sid CIV titles, should be enough to ensure...

too lazy

Kramsib, I wouldn't worry too much about this possible problem. Firaxis knows what its doing.

Sean · October 11, 2001, 22:57

This is far from a serious problem. Choosing the best locations for your cities is a crucial and challenging part of the game. Why should you get a resource from a different continent/city, without a port and a city on that continent?

SteveJH · October 11, 2001, 23:02

The new map generator is suppose to create nice continental maps now instead of a bunch of little useless islands anyway.

LaRusso · October 12, 2001, 03:15

who are 'they' who could be a failure?

Provost Harrison · October 12, 2001, 06:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Kramsib
I know that Civ III has gone gold but I found these possible failures today when I was coming back from university.

I would be very pleased if you could give me some answers to these problems.

Actually I will try and answer your questions from information I have soaked up from Firaxis and www.civ3.com
Please, look at the image that I have attached, there are two cases I want to explain to the community.

Quote:

1) If we have a city very simmilar to the Spanish one in the picture, how can we take the source (silk) marked in pink?, As you can see to buid a road to connect with the source which is on an island is impossible. Even building a colony is useless because a road is needed.

Note: Although it seems that the city and the source are on the same continent, they aren't, the source is on an island, please excuse my little image.

A solution could be, "trade" by sea between the port in the city, and a "virtual" or "external" port in a colony which would be on the other island. If anyone have other ideas I would like to read them.

An interesting query. Now it would be possible to connect the two by having a harbour in the city and a colony on this resource. But as this would be within the city radius, there would be no colony and thus would not be an option. So perhaps it may work that if this is on a separate island, it does not fall within your cultural influence, and would still be able to be worked by a colony connected to an appropriate harbour.

[quote]2) The Aztecs have a city, in the picture, wich is near sea but there is no sea adyacent square, so this city have two sea squares and it cannot build any port or any sea facility, even it cannot build naval units to defend itself better, in addition to this, it can trade with other cities only by road.

I am sure that you are fed up this kind of cities which the AI builds in the game, and when you conquer them you cannot change their placement because they are too big to do it.

My proposal is to be able to build "external ports" on the blue marked squares in the same way a colony or a farm can be built, in order to take advance of the sources from the sea by this kind of cities.

In addition to this, they must be joined by road (squares marked on green) with the ports because they are needed in order to transport materials within the port and the city.[quote]

Interesting. It may be possible to build canals into the cities which are relatively close to the coast or something, but who knows, this would be pure speculation. Who knows what happens with this problem.

Truth is, we will just have to wait for the game, or for Firaxis to reply. Interesting little scenarios...

Skanky Burns · October 12, 2001, 10:03

Quote:

The new map generator is suppose to create nice continental maps now instead of a bunch of little useless islands anyway.

I decided to test this theory, by looking thru all the maps i have from Civ 3...

Conclusion: The maps actually are better! There are virtually no pathetically small islands just a square off from the mainland. Almost all landmasses can have at least 2 fully-spaced cities (ie: no overlap), so i dont think this sort of situation is going to happen in Civ 3

Yay

Ozymandous · October 12, 2001, 10:22

Hmm, well...

Regarding that one square tile with resource. Either build a city there or deal with not having access to that resource until you can ferry a worker over there to build an airport.

Relatively simple solution.

Regarding the second city (inland), easy solution. Find a better place to build a second city that is accessable to the first city via road, but on a coastline and build a port in the second city so the second area can connect to your main empire for trade purposes..

Voila, problem solved and an additional city for you to get more money/science/units from.