Whcih special Unit is the best for spawn of great leader?

sekong · October 17, 2001, 17:58

You have to consider several things:
1) Avaliablity: Some requires advanced Tech, some requires special resourses, or even small wonders.

2) CIV attributes: Military CIV having higher chance of spawn GL

3) Defensive ability, also provide higher chance of survival. Imaging that it will be important when your unit become veteran or Elite, they will be the target of other civ.

4) Retreat ability. Faster unit can retreat from combat.

5) Offensive ability: the unit have to fight enough combats to be promoted to Elite.

Rege · October 17, 2001, 18:26

Does it take a UU to spawn a Great Leader? Why should the UU be better to get a GL?

SteveJH · October 17, 2001, 18:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Rege
Does it take a UU to spawn a Great Leader? Why should the UU be better to get a GL?

As far as I know, the unit makes no difference.

Rege · October 17, 2001, 18:30

So why's the poll:

-Which UU will spawn a Gl first?-

sekong · October 17, 2001, 18:30

Yes, not only UU can do it. But UU provide a higher chance of spawn it than general units.
When we comparing UU, one thing we should consider is its ability to spawn great leader(GL), because GL is obviously the most important feature in combat, and other aspect of CIV3, like building wonders, and building armies.

TechWins · October 17, 2001, 18:34

Quote:

But UU provide a higher chance of spawn it than general units.

Sorry but you are incorrect on this one.

The UU is the only unit that can spawn you a GA. I think this is what you are thinking of. A UU will not be more superior in earning a higher status than a regular unit.

Quote:

So why's the poll

This person is just simply wrong, that's all.

sekong · October 17, 2001, 18:34

At the beginning, I want to vote on units, but then I feel that special benefit of UU make it a generally better choice for spawning. Say, if you want to vote for spearman, then obviously Greek hoplite is better than normal spearmen..

Quote:

Originally posted by Rege
So why's the poll:

-Which UU will spawn a Gl first?-

Rege · October 17, 2001, 18:35

Are U sure about that, cos I really like the German ( Militaristic and Scientific) but if that is true, only later in the game I'll get more chances to spawn a GL ( with the panzer) which would be a GREAT disadvantge to the Germans...

sekong · October 17, 2001, 18:37

As a military CIV, German very likely will get GL before Panzer. But with general units, like swordman, or knight.

Quote:

Originally posted by Rege
Are U sure about that, cos I really like the German ( Militaristic and Scientific) but if that is true, only later in the game I'll get more chances to spawn a GL ( with the panzer) which would be a GREAT disadvantge to the Germans...

Pembleton · October 17, 2001, 18:38

I think it would be a unit with the following attributes:

1) Ability to retreat. Units with more movement get to do this. This way you can survive more battles and thus continue to increase its level.
2) Militaristic Civ.

TechWins · October 17, 2001, 18:40

A UU DOESN'T HAVE ANY SPECIAL ADVANTAGES IN BECOMING A GL OVER A REGULAR UNIT!!!

sekong · October 17, 2001, 18:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Pembleton
I think it would be a unit with the following attributes:

1) Ability to retreat. Units with more movement get to do this. This way you can survive more battles and thus continue to increase its level.
2) Militaristic Civ.

Good point of retreat. I was thinking:
3) Good defense.
4) Good offense. Therefore I chose Rome Legion.
ALso i think Legion is best for forming an army.

Pembleton · October 17, 2001, 18:45

Quote:

Originally posted by sekong
ALso i think Legion is best for forming an army.

I'm still rather unclear about armies, but I thought a GL was a prerequisite to building armies until you research Nationalism. The small wonder that also allows them (Miltary Academy?) also requires a GL first.

sekong · October 17, 2001, 18:46

I disagree.
As Pembleton and me pointed out:
The special units are either have more offense, or defense, or retreating ability than general units. Therefore they may fight and survive more wars, therefore more chance to spawn GL.

Quote:

Originally posted by TechWins
A UU DOESN'T HAVE ANY SPECIAL ADVANTAGES IN BECOMING A GL OVER A REGULAR UNIT!!!

sekong · October 17, 2001, 18:50

Each time elite unit win a combat, there is a chance for spawn of GL.
After GL, you can build Hero Epic (small wonder) and
use GL to form an army.
After you army win the 1st battle, you can build War Academy (Small wonder) which allow Army building without GL.

Quote:

Originally posted by Pembleton

I'm still rather unclear about armies, but I thought a GL was a prerequisite to building armies until you research Nationalism. The small wonder that also allows them (Miltary Academy?) also requires a GL first.

TechWins · October 17, 2001, 18:51

Quote:

The special units are either have more offense, or defense, or retreating ability than general units. Therefore they may fight and survive more wars, therefore more chance to spawn GL.

Well, that is fairly obvious.

sekong · October 17, 2001, 18:54

Mars · October 17, 2001, 19:09

It will most likely be the earliest one cause they have the most time to become a GL

sekong · October 17, 2001, 19:17

Jaguar Warrior? Maybe.
But I remember at least 5 civ having the tech of bronze from beginng. That's about 1/3 of chance.

Skanky Burns · October 17, 2001, 20:56

1: Great Leaders may spawned when an elite unit wins combat.
2: Great Leaders are only spawned when it was a difficult win.

So to maximize your chance to spawn a GL, you need to cover both points 1 and 2. IMHO the retreat ability will allow your units to participate in many battles, and even if they are losing, they can retreat. If not, they win

Therefore they are more likely to gain rank, to become elite.

Secondly, attacking or defending with a 1.1.2 unit is definately considered a difficult combat. If you win with this unit, i believe you would be more likely to spawn a GL.

So i think the Jaguar Warrior will be the earliest to spawn GLs.

sekong · October 17, 2001, 21:12

But remeber Jaguar is only worthy a fight at the beginning of the game, when civs are still far from each other, When your Jaguar reach other civ, they may already have spearman, or can build a army of spearman soon. Even you can win and spawn a GL, remember that GL HAVE to come back to one of your
city to be any use at all. That could be a long journey for the Jaguar hero to move back to capital. :=)
So it's depends on the size of map.

Quote:

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
1: Great Leaders may spawned when an elite unit wins combat.
2: Great Leaders are only spawned when it was a difficult win.

So to maximize your chance to spawn a GL, you need to cover both points 1 and 2. IMHO the retreat ability will allow your units to participate in many battles, and even if they are losing, they can retreat. If not, they win

Therefore they are more likely to gain rank, to become elite.

Secondly, attacking or defending with a 1.1.2 unit is definately considered a difficult combat. If you win with this unit, i believe you would be more likely to spawn a GL.

So i think the Jaguar Warrior will be the earliest to spawn GLs.

Faboba · October 17, 2001, 21:28

Uh.... where in the name of god is the Impi.

If it's a case of 'which unique unit will spawn a GL the earliest' it's gonna be the Impi or the Jaguar warrior as both afaik are based on the warrior unit and are consequently available at the begining of the game.

The Aztec and Zulu civs will pump out a lot of these most likely ( and according to one of the only accounts of someone who's played the game that I've read the Zulus sure as hell do ) and as soon as any of them win a combat a golden age is triggered.

And golden age means more production which means, yes that's right, MORE Jaguar/Impi warriors!

Which means they are, of all the unique units, assuming the civilization is in a situation allowing it to engage in combat, the unique unit most likely to spawn the first great leader in the game.

Skanky Burns · October 17, 2001, 21:34

If you've spawned a great leader, then chances are that the units you trained to elite status have already captured an enemy city (or more). So even if the two empires are far apart, the GL will only need to travel to a near city to be used.

Obviously, the map size and shape will determine if this strategy will work. Its pointless building hordes of Jaguar Warriors if you then have to wait until you have boats to go on the offensive, but generally, i believe that the JWs will have the best chance at being the first to spawn a GL.

Spearmen arent much of a problem if you have a horde of JWs, though. You can attack with one, bring the spearmans health down a bit before retreating, attack with another, and another, until the spearman is dead, with NO JW losses. Good ol' retreatin

sekong · October 17, 2001, 21:36

Sorry, Impi is not on the list simply because we don't have its stat yet.

Quote:

Originally posted by Faboba
Uh.... where in the name of god is the Impi.

If it's a case of 'which unique unit will spawn a GL the earliest' it's gonna be the Impi or the Jaguar warrior as both afaik are based on the warrior unit and are consequently available at the begining of the game.

The Aztec and Zulu civs will pump out a lot of these most likely ( and according to one of the only accounts of someone who's played the game that I've read the Zulus sure as hell do ) and as soon as any of them win a combat a golden age is triggered.

And golden age means more production which means, yes that's right, MORE Jaguar/Impi warriors!

Which means they are, of all the unique units, assuming the civilization is in a situation allowing it to engage in combat, the unique unit most likely to spawn the first great leader in the game.