I now have TOT

Case · October 17, 2001, 22:48

For the princely sum of $A 7.50, I just bought the latest edition of PC User which has TOT on the cover CD. Now, what are some good scenarios/modpacks for it?

Grothgar · October 17, 2001, 23:21

Europe in flames. well thats what i remember the title to be. its a WWII scen played as the axis rather good i would say.
thats it as far as i know. but may i say
boo traitor

oh and why am i up at this time?

techumseh · October 17, 2001, 23:43

Go to the Cradle of Civilization site, here: http://coc.apolyton.net/
There's several excellent ones by Kestrel, and a number of historical ones, mostly conversions from FW. If you want to work on some partly finished scenarios, let me know. I have lots!

Case · October 18, 2001, 04:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Grothgar
may i say boo traitor

No you may not

Thanks for those recomendations guys.

Paul Hanson · October 18, 2001, 04:27

Congratulations, you have just wasted the princely sum of $A 7.50.

But seriously, the only reason I use my ToT disk is that I discovered that I could use it to run MGE with after I lost ym MGE disk.

lord of the mark · October 18, 2001, 17:25

Not sure i can help much,as i generally prefer historical scens, and my favorite TOT scens, SOG and Great Game, are both available non-TOT. Im not a big fan of WW2 scens, so i cant say much about Europe in flames.

I will say that the TOT sci-fi game is worth a spin, and a good example of fun that can be had with the multi-maps feature (more so than the extended original game) I never got into the fantasy game, but I may go back and play Midgard anyway (now that Im a scenario fan

), and then take a stab at some of the other fantasy/sci-fi scenarios.

It is unfortunate, but Civ3 seems to be killing off the budding TOT scenario community, AFAIK.

LOTM

Case · October 18, 2001, 21:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Paul Hanson
Congratulations, you have just wasted the princely sum of $A 7.50.

Yeah, I'm coming to that conclusion

I can now see why people are anxious about Civ 3...

Shadowstrike · October 18, 2001, 22:21

Technically, ToT's eiting abilities are quite nifty, and could turn out some pretty good scenarios... if anyone bothered.

Cam · October 19, 2001, 01:32

Case...

I got the same deal - there must be some pretty annoyed computer game retailers out there with a dozen copies of ToT that they'll never be able to move!

I am really surprised how people have not taken to ToT (particularly the scenario creation community) - but in light of the earlier question of scenarios, I do think that if you're prepared to persist through the first 15 minutes of Time Threat Paradox, it's quite a good game. I think there are some really terrific works done from within the community as well - as techumseh points out, William's 'Cradle of Civilization' site contains a really good spead of fine scenarios and tools.

The most frustrating thing I found with ToT is that it inhereted the absurd diplomatic model that came with MPG... OK - the tribe colours all look a bit the same too!

William Keenan · October 21, 2001, 11:12

Frankly, I don't get this whole anti-ToT thing. Other than the tribe colors, I've yet to hear of a real insurmountable problem with the engine itself. The total lack of recognition of the vast suite of new scenario design utilities also raises an eyebrow.

I suspect that the problem lies not with ToT but the "scenario designers" themselves. The real barrier of the ToT detractors is fear of an engine that is not fully understood and clearly mapped out for them. These "designers" lack the imagination to innovate themselves. Instead they rehash the designs of the true creators that came before them. Then, to add insult to ignorance, they openly proclaim the ToT engine to be beneath their consideration when, in fact, it is quite over their heads.

BeBro · October 21, 2001, 11:44

My problem with ToT is the relation of the amount of work you have to invest for a scn, and the relative small number of players for it.

For me it seems much better to change to civ3, if possible...

ravagon · October 22, 2001, 02:48

I think the major annoyance when it comes to ToT scenarios is that they suffer from all of the same creation problems as FW scenarios (unit slots/flags and tech tree quirks) as well as the added questions that come with the upgraded features.
Many of the recent FW/MGE scenarios seem to have been in development for many months at least, and this is without the added complexity of Sprites/Multiple maps/Transport Relationships/Flags, CSPL, etc.
Add this in to the relatively small number of people using ToT and henceforth even fewer who actively develop scenarios and I can see why it may seem to many to be not worth the trouble, in spite of the increased depth and the many innovative opportunities available.
I think it came out just a little too late after FW to really capture the market in the same way.

William Keenan · October 23, 2001, 14:19

Quote:

Originally posted by BeBro
My problem with ToT is the relation of the amount of work you have to invest for a scn ...

The thing that takes longer in ToT is the artwork - because there isn't much artwork around for ToT one must create it all new. You are the best artist in the EU. I would think you would embrace the challenge and the expanded 24-bit palette.

Quote:

Originally posted by BeBro
... and the relative small number of players for it.

Civ2 is my chosen leisure hobby and I take my leisure very seriously. If ToT cost $250 I would still buy it simply because I must have all the tools that are available.

Those unwilling to pay $10 are not very entrenched in the hobby and are likely to be here today and gone tomorrow. The opinions and prejudice of gaming drifters, IMHO, warrant little attention.

Quote:

Originally posted by BeBro
For me it seems much better to change to civ3, if possible...

Did Michelangelo wait for acrylic to be invented?

Angelo Scotto · October 23, 2001, 17:41

IMHO Tot is a great game:
It comes with 4 games, and one is exactly the original one (in case you're nostalgic).
You hate graphics?
Kestrel did a graphic modpack for Tot pasting in Tot the same graphics of classic Civ2 (i did the same with my MODManager but he was the first to do so).
I even converted Tim Smith HiRes pack to Tot!
I know, Civ3 is near and probably it will be great, but AFAIK ToT is the ONLY Civ game which allows 4 (FOUR) maps linked!
This allows scenarios which simply are not possible to realize with a normal Civ(1,2,3) game.
And even if multimaps are used to realize a unique world it has many advantages on a single gigamap.
For example, in the scenario i was realizing about 1492 i created 2 maps (guess what? Yeah, Old World and New World), to keep the game balanced i placed in a map Europe and in another one America, obviously, in the same map this is horrible (Europe large as America

) but thanks to different maps the effect was interesting.

Greetings,
Angelo

lord of the mark · October 28, 2001, 22:39

Started playing Kestrel's Mars scen - its a lot more fun than I expected. Great Terrain, units, good use of impassable, etc.

LOTM

techumseh · October 29, 2001, 01:06

Hang on to your ToT CD, even after Civ3 is released. I predict it will become a cult favourite. Its potential is still yet to be realized.

William Keenan · October 29, 2001, 10:12

Quote:

Originally posted by techumseh
Hang on to your ToT CD, even after Civ3 is released. I predict it will become a cult favourite. Its potential is still yet to be realized.

I concur.