Pirate Questions

[Maniac]

I can play pretty good with the Pirates, but not as brilliant as for example the University. I was hoping you could help me to solve that problem...

The thing is, because the Pirates have -1 Efficiency, it's practically impossible to go Planned. Now I was wondering what experienced Pirate players do with that fact. Do you just don't do any SE in the early game? Or do you go for Planned anyway, but counter the inefficiency penalty with going Democratic? If so, how do you deal with the -2 Support penalty? Losing that 10 free minerals is very big for a brand new base. Do you just let a sea colony pod be accompanied by a sea formers, so the new base already has some gear, or something else?
And how do you deal with building SPs? Trawlers aren't very handy for that - convoying isn't at all easy for the Pirates btw! How do you deal with the absence of crawlers? Just build some mining platforms more? If all 20 squares should be ocean, on how many would you build mining platforms and on how many tidal harnesses?
I all have some rude answers on those questions myself, but I have never focused myself on playing that faction, so I don't know if my answers are best. What are yours?

M@ni@c

[Blake]

The strategy really depends on whether pod-popping is on or not... if it is then you should send out atleast a couple of ships to pop pods - this should give you a hefty income. Then just buy any facilities you want (rec commons would be the main one)

Once the early pod income has dried up switch to FM and start raking in the cash. (until then keep a neutral SE)

If you dont have pods then just try to make contact quickly and establish yourself as a middleman. Expansion will be slow and painfull without pods.
However a loan from Morgan can really boost your infrastructure construction...

I suggest founding your starting bases next to land, and building one transport then Land CP's. Build formers at the new land bases and plant forest, once your happy with the base expansion move onto sea terraforming and serious infrastructure development.
(Dont build any sea CP's until you have bases with a fairly decent mineral production, you certaintely dont want to be building them in a base with less than 8 production...)

I reccomend all core bases (near the HQ) focus entirely on energy, iow, kelp+tidal, or forest+borehole.

Then build a few 'frontier' sea bases near mineral specials and turn them into industrial powerhouses (all kelp+mining platform), you probably want to give them a Punishment Sphere and use them to support war efforts. Dividing your empire like this greatly improves efficency, all the bases near the HQ are producing energy, while the ones which would get hit bad by Inefficency are producing minerals. Not having any mining platforms in your core bases saves you the cost of subsea trunklines too.
Ofcourse even your core bases are hardly mineral poor, because you should have a bunch of coastal bases working forest & boreholes.

Once you get fusion power start a secondary wave of expansion, filling in the deep sea between your energy and mineral bases...

You dont really need any secret projects, just focus on aquiring the cash to rushbuy stuff. Altough it should be possible to get atleast a couple of the early game SP's - HGP and VW are obvious choices, WP/PEG are good backups...

To answer your SE question , keep a neutral SE in the early game, your strengths are as a pod-popper and tech/commlink-broker, neither are improved by early SE's. Then either switch to FM for a builder game, or Green for hybrid. Either way you'll want democracy - I suggest switching once your initial expansion phase is over.
And Children Creches are great, you'll be wanting them as soon as practical...

[Sikander]

Blake gives some good advice here. I haven't played the Pirates in a while, though I played them a lot when I started playing SMAX. A few things I think are important for the Pirates:

Select your initial base locations carefully. You have a lot of movement, and a gun ship to help you scout, so use them to find some nice specials to plant your bases on or near.

Your first build in each of your first two bases should be transports. Your gun ship should be scouting the whole time, locating (but not popping) pods, empty islands and continents for future expansion, and other factions to trade tech with. You start out with some nice tech to trade, and in the early game you are the most likely faction to run into others due to your movement rate and ability to visit different continents. Use this ability to become a tech broker, trade techs to get other techs. Every time you trade you gain one tech in relation to your opponents.

Use your transports initially to pop pods. Bring any alien artifacts you get back to base to further building early game SPs. IMO the best early game SP to get is The Human Genome Project, with the Virtual World and Planetary Transit System also being good ones. You should also go for the Planetary Energy Grid, as along the way you will get the kelp farm enhancer and you really need those free energy banks.

I almost always go on to land with my next bases, using the transports to haul colony pods to islands near my existing bases or any empty continents that I happen to turn up. This land empire is used as my industrial heartland and supports my sea bases whenever it can by building units and crawlers and colony pods for pod booming. If my world doesn't have much in the way of shallows areas I may only build land bases from this point forward, though I like to build on the shore when possible to take advantage of the Pirate's +1 mineral in shallows squares.

The Pirate's industrial weakness is somewhat overstated. Indeed in the first turn the Pirates are likely to have more mineral production than any other faction due to the inherent recycling tanks in every sea colony and the automatic 1 mineral in every shallow square. A large sea base will produce decent minerals just with the 1 mineral per shallow square alone. The problem lies in the ealry game where minerals are critical and the Pirate's inability to easily get more than one mineral per square or to grow quickly really can cause a crunch, especially when building expensive sea units. This is why I like to locate my first two bases near some land, and why I also like to expand on the land early in the game. Once the initial mineral crunch is overcome the Pirates can use population to get minerals and energy to rush buy the many facilities that their energy focus depends upon.

As stated above, the Pirates really tend to rely upon an energy strategy more than most factions I have played. To be sure you can find an empty landmass large enough to basically play them as you would any other faction, but sometimes this is just not feasible or desirable. Given that the Pirates require a Golden Age just to pop boom (and have to run planned while doing so) means that a heavy emphasis on specialists isn't likely to work out in the early to middle stages of the game. Fortunately the sea provides plenty of energy and nutrients to make the energy focus viable, enough so that even with the low efficiency and extreme difficulty pop booming the Pirates are quite capable of running away with the game.

The key IMO to dominance is population. Every pirate at sea can produce 9 FOP by the early midgame, and with a minimum of terraforming. The 4 nuts produced can also support a specialist for every worked square, so that (with Librarians) each square can produce 12 FOP, the same as a borehole. There are three ways to produce the requisite population.

1) Just wait for it. With every sea worker producing 4 food your growth rate isn't all that bad, even if you do nothing to really help it.

2) Pod Booming. Build a lot of small bases on land and the Planetary Transit System and a few crawlers per base. Then just keep cranking out colony pods, load them on transports and get them out to your prosperous sea and coastal bases (don't forget to hit the 'B' key) where they can really crank out the FOP. A good place for these colony pod producing bases would be in the interior of a landmass that you have taken over, where they will be defended from attack by your shore bases and have plenty of rocky squares to place their crawlers on.

3) Golden Age Pop Boom. This is a great way to really grow your population. Unfortunately it isn't really easy, though with some preparation it is possible. Every base you wish to grow should have a children's crech (actually a great thing for the Pirates to build early anyway) and a lot of happiness enhancing facilities (Tree Farms, Rec Commons, and Hospitals). This is why I suggested getting the Human Genome Project and the Virtual World early on, as they really pay for themselves here, especially the HGP. Once your base facilities are in place set your SE to Demo / Planned / (whatever though either Wealth or Knowledge helps), and set your psych to whatever it takes to get at least half of the population of your bases turned into talents. You want a lot of workers here, because your new population is going to end up as specialists in most cases to keep the GA going. Be sure to visit each booming base every turn in order to keep it booming. If it falls out of it's GA it takes another turn to get it pop booming again. Properly done a GA pop boom can put you into the lead for good.

Among the many advantages of the Pirates is their ability to kick butt as a momentum faction. Think about it. They start with ships and rovers, can run any SE choices and are likely to be able to trade for some handy tech very early in the game. Early on their base areas are almost certainly secure which means they can concentrate their efforts on offense.

The best thing about the Pirates in my book is that they are hard to knock out of the game, and extremely flexible. A lot depends on what sort of hand you are dealt at the start of the game (by the terrain), but whatever happens you are quite capable of adapting your style of play to meet the situation on it's own terms and thrive. The Pirates are Jacks of All Trades, and masters at taking what life deals them and making it work for them.

[Drago Sinio]

I agree with the good advice above.

When I play the pirates , I focus on first building a boat and a former in each base, and then the childrens creche, network node, and rec commons. Once you have the Childrens creche, the -1 efficiency is no longer a factor since that is overcome by the facility. Of course you want a network node, and you will need the rec commons too.

What I do is use the boats to scout the area and locate pods, but not pop them as one of the posters above suggested. When I have built about 6-12 bases depending on world size and have a boat and former for each one, I set them all to build the Childrens creche. THEN you can pop the pods, making sure the closest base to that pod is building a facility. That way any auto build pods you pop will finish one of your chreches or net nodes for you. And you can use the energy credits for selective rush builds. I rush build in the bases that dont have pods near them, in hopes that an auto build will complete the ones I dont rush.

After that I like to concentrate on getting as many SP's as I can of the type that benefit each base.

And then the next step after you get as many early SP's as you can grab, is to concentrate on further expansion, using your fleet of boats and formers to protect and develop your new colonies.

This should give you a very strong start, and put you in a position to carry out whatever sort of strategy you like for the rest of the game.

[vitamin j]

Good advice! I think the pirates are a pretty cool faction. Some of my best SP games have been with them. When first starting, I always try to move adjacent to some land before founding a base. A small to medium group of islands (an archipelago!) is best, just enough for some forest and eventually some boreholes. (I don't like to be next to a big continent generally, 'cause inevitably someone shows up and those squares you were just working are now greyed out! Of course, if you're a momentum-style player, go for it.) It's worth it to look around first, and really plan out where your bases are gonna go.
Ocean shelf mineral bonuses are key if you want the early projects, and you can be surprised at how many are sometimes within a nice 8-10 square diameter! If you spend 10 turns looking, and find one, you'll quickly make up the lost mins, and then some, in the next 10 turns. I think people also overlook the free marine detatchment ability. You can end up with a large, support-free navy in a short amount of time, which is great for running free market. I usually turn pods off, so pod-popping is not an issue. The growth penalty I hardly even notice. As Sikander mentioned, the Pirates have plenty of nutrients available. I'm usually as big as I want to be before I'm ready to pop-boom. As for pod-booming, well, some people need to do that sort of thing... I think the Pirates are over-powered, but nowhere near the University. Anyone can have a brilliant game with them!

[Maniac]

Thanks for the great advice all! Some remarks though.

I suggest founding your starting bases next to land, and building one transport then Land CP's.

Ah yes indeed! I use that tactic often as well.

Then build a few 'frontier' sea bases near mineral specials and turn them into industrial powerhouses (all kelp+mining platform),

Isn’t that slightly impossible? You’ll reach the ecological damage limit very quick. Even faster than the other factions because you have fewer forest tiles to lower the eco-damage.

Use your transports initially to pop pods.

Is that really good? Their movement rate is smaller than that of normal gun foils. Also, when they encounter an IoD after popping a pod (which seems to happen quite a lot to me when exploring with non-military vessels – perhaps just a wrong feeling?), their only choice is run or die. Gun foils can at least harness some energy out of it. Also, since I prefer coastal (is)land bases, my transports are usually constantly busy transporting stuff. Where do you find the time??

Among the many advantages of the Pirates is their ability to kick butt as a momentum faction.

Don’t tell me about it!

When I play the pirates , I focus on first building a boat and a former in each base,

Don’t you forget the land infantry for policing? By the time a new base has build a boat (transport/military?) and (sea?) former, he has already grown to size 2 and rioting. And rushbuying sea units is much too costly. You would better spend the money on facilities.

And then the next step after you get as many early SP's as you can grab, is to concentrate on further expansion, using your fleet of boats and formers to protect and develop your new colonies.

Blake also mentioned working in two expansion waves. How many bases do you usually build in the first wave, and how many approximately in the second one? When playing with a land faction, my objective is always 20 bases and then switch into high builder gear. Most of the time there is no second expansion wave, and I absolutely don’t find any time to build a protective ring of sea bases as Velocyrix advices (in the time I need to do all Velocyrix suggests, I can transcend a couple of times – how do you all pull it off???). But what about the Pirates? 20 bases in the first wave and then just see. Or rather 12 or so in the first wave and then wait for Fusion to do the rest?

I think people also overlook the free marine detatchment ability. You can end up with a large, support-free navy in a short amount of time, which is great for running free market.

In every Pirate game I played I noticed that captured units simply disappear after a number of turns. Is this common experience or a bug of me alone? This can be very annoying. I once lost more than half of my fleet (not exaggerating) on the same turn, and Marr was just launching a major offensive on two of my sea bases! I had to give up one base to the AI!!!

I think the Pirates are over-powered, but nowhere near the University. Anyone can have a brilliant game with them!

Also without any drone-quelling SP, such as the VW or HGP?

By the way, I’ve got another question. How do you deal with pods in fungus? Do you just take the risk of loosing your ship (remember: you loose all 4 MP’s when getting an IoD out of a fungus pod), or do you pop
in groups of two?

M@ni@c

[Drago Sinio]

Pods in Fungus: Pop with an Iod, or wait until you have the SP that allows fungus movement. Forget the name. Xenoempathy something?

Expansion: In the early game you dont have enough bases to cause rioting at size 2, if you stop building bases at the number just below the efficency warning. This varies with world size and SE choices. THere is a formula to figure the exact number of bases in Vel's Guide. Then once you have built rec commons, VW, HG , and so forth, you can continue your expansion without drones giving you fits.

[vitamin j]

I think, M@ni@c, you mean Transcend difficulty, right? If you don't have or can't use a police unit, your second citizen at each base is a drone - thus drone riots.
I don't usually expand in waves. Each new base will make one or two colony pods asap, depending on the circumstances, right through the beauracracy warning(s). The new drone won't necessarily be in the new base, and you usually will have some drone control facilities somewhere to compensate.
I hear you about eco-damage. I don't usually bother with mining platforms ever. In the early game, Sven can get all the minerals he needs from shelf and forest squares, and the occassional mine.
Plus those mineral bonuses... I do try to set up some mega-mineral bases eventually, for controlled fungal blooms, prototype development, and support (w/punishment spheres for free market). Still, I don't find mining platforms/subsea trunklines the best way to do it.
Maybe it's silly, but I don't found too many land bases as Sven. Maybe a third of my total bases end up on land. Sea colony pods are expensive pre-fusion, but they move fast, don't need any transports, and come w/pressure domes. All in all, a good buy. Later, I will sometimes raise that little island I'm next to, making a land base out of a sea base. I hate it when another treatied or pacted faction comes along and plops a colony pod down on "your" territory! Not quite yours if you don't have a land base on it!
I wouldn't ever pop a sea pod without a transport! There goes your chance of getting an alien artifact - the holy grail of pod popping. That's why I play with pods off. (Plus, you can see more resource bonuses - useful for base planning.) For a pod in sea fungus, wait for cruisers, and always pop with your first move. Unless like Drago mentioned, you've got an IOD or the Xenoempathy Dome. (One of my favorite projects, by the way!)
I've had captured ships disappear on me as well, or change into another unit! Probe subverted units are not immune either. Don't know what to tell you about that. Doesn't happen to me very often.

[Blake]

The reason for the post-fusion expansion wave is to claim the deep sea around your empire, and prevent some cheeky AI doing the same.
Once you have adv.eco.eng you can terraform the deep sea, another reason to colonise it.

Having high mineral frontier bases is fun, you can either build treefarms at heaps of bases to increase your clean mineral limit )remember, they still give +50% econ, +50% pysch, better than an energy bank for only 50% more), or you can abuse the fact that locusts often target the wrong base, so you can found a base near enemy territory, it gets a pop, and half the time the locusts go harrass the AI instead. (And all you need is a couple of SAM-Arty, and AAA-trance troops to hold off the locusts...)

One strategy I've had fun with as pirates is bee-lining to Int.Int for non-lethal methods, this is particullary good when unity scattering is off, because it delays the need for rec commons. And you can always trade for all those builder techs.

[knowhow2]

2) Pod Booming. Build a lot of small bases on land and the Planetary Transit System and a few crawlers per base. Then just keep cranking out colony pods, load them on transports and get them out to your prosperous sea and coastal bases (don't forget to hit the 'B' key) where they can really crank out the FOP. A good place for these colony pod producing bases would be in the interior of a landmass that you have taken over, where they will be defended from attack by your shore bases and have plenty of rocky squares to place their crawlers on.

Just a nitpick- seabases can't be pod boomed by regular land colony pods and vice versa (landbases can't be pod boomed by seacolony pods.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by knowhow2

Just a nitpick- seabases can't be pod boomed by regular land colony pods and vice versa (landbases can't be pod boomed by seacolony pods.

Really? It just goes to show how much I tend to go to ground as the Pirates, and how little pod booming I do.

[knowhow2]

I have never tried colony pods with air chassis or tank chassis so I don't know how compatible they are for pod booming ( not that you would pod boom something THAT expensive that late )

[Maniac]

Good ideas again! Especially for pop popping.

Expansion: In the early game you dont have enough bases to cause rioting at size 2, if you stop building bases at the number just below the efficency warning. This varies with world size and SE choices. THere is a formula to figure the exact number of bases in Vel's Guide. Then once you have built rec commons, VW, HG , and so forth, you can continue your expansion without drones giving you fits.

Ah yes, I read that tactic of expanding in waves in Vel's guide. Perhaps it's good but I've never tested out. I'm more like vitamin j. Besides, the bureaucracy limit is too small for Pirates - they have -1 Efficiency.

[Sikander]

One interesting fact that is not perhaps well known is that all negative efficiencies act the same as 0 efficiency for bureaucracy drones. Of course positive efficiency ratings still allow more bases to be built before the bureacracy warning. This confused the hell out of me for a while. I would be running planned, and hit the bureacracy warning. No problem, I added democracy (for a net of 0 efficiency) and built a couple more colony pods and wham! The bureacracy warning came back at the same spot. When I switched to FM (net +2 effic.) the warning was gone.

[Googlie]

Any of you guys interetsed in a PBEM that pits Pirates against Pirates?

See:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=30192

(Doesn't have to be limited to 4 factions, I can always clone up to 3 more)

Googlie

[Maniac]

Really, Sikander???????? Then for me the biggest reason why I don't use Planned for the PKs but especially the Pirates is gone. After all, in the early game the Pirates get most out of their income out of pod energy. What do you think: would it be a reasonable tactic: Planned Piracy? Or am I just talking nonsense?

[vitamin j]

I don't think Planned is a bad choice for any faction in the early going. It helps the two factors you need the most - growth and industry. When you only have a handful of bases, efficiency's not such a big deal. If you're the Pirates, or the PKs, just make sure you keep your energy allocation at 50/50! Works OK for me.

[Sikander]

M@ni@c,

I don't use Planned much as the Pirates (with the exception of pop booms), mainly because my early bases tend to be farther apart than with other factions, and -3 efficiency is pretty severe. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but I tend to run mostly frontier settings for quite a while, though I like to use Democracy when I get it in order to rid myself of that -1 growth and eficiency. Also it comes in handy to have mostly frontier settings for a while in order to make diplomacy work for me. As a tech broker I can often get a lot of good trades in before my switch to more efficient SE settings starts to pi$$ the other factions off.

[Maniac]

Sikander,

So if I understand you right, unlike Blake, you do sometimes use Democratic early. Then how do you deal with the -2 Support?