Recon Air Missions

Jason Beaudoin · October 21, 2001, 07:56

According to Firaxis, recon missions investigates a selected square.

Isn't that a little limited? I mean, the aircraft will fly over many squares to get to the target, wouldn't it reveal more? Besides, this thing is supposed to be in the air, so, wouldn't it have a huge line of sight?

Crouchback · October 21, 2001, 08:17

Even at 200 miles squared per tile that is a little on the mean side. I hope spy planes are still in, they should be invaluable under this new air system for pre-bombing target recon and damage assessment. With air superiority over the target as well, air power in Civ 3 could rock.

Now all they need to add is close ground support, and we'll be set for modern warfare.

David

Jason Beaudoin · October 21, 2001, 08:22

You're right... air combat will rock in CIV 3 (I hope)!

How would you simulate close air support in CIV 3? I mean, how could have Firaxis accomplish that?

Ralf · October 21, 2001, 08:25

The recon-mission must also update the latest terrain-improvements and uncover black and dimmed out squares 3-4 tiles wide, along the way. Also, I hope that one can setup an automatic reckon-path from node to node. If not, above recon-option becomes rather useless.

Mars · October 21, 2001, 12:41

After like the industrial Age i almost always have discovered the whole map anyways so recon in of it self is kind of useless in my opinion. Just go and bomb the city is what i say.

Faboba · October 21, 2001, 12:48

I assume it, like near everything else, will be adjustable in the editor so, no worries guys

Alfonsus72 · October 21, 2001, 13:01

Even if you have a map of the entire world, fog of war exists.
I hope that you have an option to make a fow line visible or something so, that way you could plan your recon misions with the information of what squares your units/cities can see and what they can´t.

Another interesting question is what happens when you attemp an air recon and your target square falls into the defense range of an enemy air unit in "air superiority" mode?. Probably you have a chance of being undetected (specially stealth units).

And what about the Radar instalations that workers could build in SMAC? will they be present in Civ3?. Hope so, but can´t be so optimist after the aparent remove of the airbases.

Lorizael · October 21, 2001, 13:13

I don't remember, were there vision ranges in Civ II? If not, think about this guys. People can see farther when on top of mountains in Civ III, so I'm sure that planes will see farther, too.

Faboba · October 21, 2001, 13:30

Actually they've done something I don't feel is particularly great and slightly greyed all the squares covered by the fog of war.

I hope I can turn this off, I like my colours to be vibrant so I can full appreciate the beauty and effort Firaxis have put itno these graphics, not darker shadows of them.

Also it's just my opinion, but I don't think you'd be sending a recon mission to either your or an ally controlled region or anywhere near your units, I know I wouldn't f I sent one at all, so it's a reasonably moot point.

Faboba · October 21, 2001, 13:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Lorizael
I don't remember, were there vision ranges in Civ II? If not, think about this guys. People can see farther when on top of mountains in Civ III, so I'm sure that planes will see farther, too.

Oui mais ils voient avec moins de détail.

albiedamned · October 21, 2001, 14:15

Quote:

Originally posted by Jason Beaudoin
According to Firaxis, recon missions investigates a selected square.

Isn't that a little limited? I mean, the aircraft will fly over many squares to get to the target, wouldn't it reveal more? Besides, this thing is supposed to be in the air, so, wouldn't it have a huge line of sight?

True the plane would fly over other squares to get to the square being reconnoitered. However I suspect the best way to think of it is that the plane will take pictures over the target area, thus developing more detailed information. Kind of like U2 spy plane flights over Cuba during the missle crisis. (Did you see Thirteen Days?)

I think this function is probably similar to the "Investigate City" option for Civ2, except that you can use it for any square. It makes sense that they've expanded this option from just city squares to any square, since warfare in Civ3 will focus on protecting territory (resources, trade routes, colonies etc.) as well as cities. In Civ2, it was all about cities. This new concept of defending your territory, not just your cities, is one of the things I'm looking forward to the most.

SerapisIV · October 21, 2001, 15:06

I'm going under the assumption that revealing one square actually means that it reveals the fog over 9 squares. Come on a lowly 4,000 BC warrior can clear 9 tiles of fog, but an advanced aircraft flying recon only sees 1? Something doesn't jive there. But, it's such a nit-picking point, I doubt we'll get clarification till Oct 31.

Sabre2th · October 21, 2001, 15:11

Quote:

Originally posted by Faboba
Actually they've done something I don't feel is particularly great and slightly greyed all the squares covered by the fog of war.

I hope I can turn this off, I like my colours to be vibrant so I can full appreciate the beauty and effort Firaxis have put itno these graphics, not darker shadows of them.

Whether you like it or not, it serves a rather important function and I doubt it can be turned off.

ixnay · October 21, 2001, 15:13

IIRC, you could turn off the fog of war in SMAC, so I don't see why you wouldn't be able to do the same in civ3.

Sabre2th · October 21, 2001, 15:14

Quote:

Originally posted by ixnay37
IIRC, you could turn off the fog of war in SMAC, so I don't see why you wouldn't be able to do the same in civ3.

I haven't played SMAC in quite a while, I'll just take your word for it.

I don't like playing without FOW. After playing CtP (*shudder*), it was hard for me to go back to civ2. FOW makes it very obvious what you can see and not see. I would rather focus on my empire.

Sarxis · October 21, 2001, 20:26

Quote:

Originally posted by Sabre2th

Whether you like it or not, it serves a rather important function and I doubt it can be turned off.

In SMAC, this could be turned on and off. I usually would leave it the LOS fog off if I was in a state of peace, but during wartime, I had it on.

I too like the pretty colors

Lorizael · October 22, 2001, 20:54

Quote:

Originally posted by Faboba

Oui mais ils voient avec moins de détail.

I'm sorry... I don't speak... not English... I'm ignorant...

What did you say???

korn469 · October 22, 2001, 21:20

Oui mais ils voient avec moins de détail=Yes but they see with less detail

Lorizael · October 22, 2001, 21:29

Quote:

Originally posted by korn469
Oui mais ils voient avec moins de détail=Yes but they see with less detail

How do we know they see with less detail?

And until the advent of modern day satelites (which are in the game, yeah!) you can't see good detail from high so that's okay.

Falconius · October 22, 2001, 21:44

Quote:

Originally posted by Faboba
Oui mais ils voient avec moins de détail.

This I understand perfectly.

Quote:

Originally posted by Faboba
Also it's just my opinion, but I don't think you'd be sending a recon mission to either your or an ally controlled region or anywhere near your units, I know I wouldn't f I sent one at all, so it's a reasonably moot point.

This, on the other hand, needs a translation.

Mars · October 22, 2001, 22:01

I'm with you falconius, what the heck are you trying to say there

Lorizael · October 22, 2001, 22:07

Sometims your thoughts just don't look the same when you put them down on paper... (or computer screen)

Sarxis · October 22, 2001, 22:54

Quote:

Originally posted by Lorizael
Sometims your thoughts just don't look the same when you put them down on paper... (or computer screen)

heh.. You know, I was thinking of things- you know

Sometimes they just come out, but that's something else.

Grumbold · October 23, 2001, 09:30

If I understand it correctly, the airplane will have a view radius like any other unit, but it will only examine in detail one selected square. So like Albie suggested, for that one square you will actually get to see the condition and composition of the full enemy stack. Very useful for knowing when to stop bombarding and launch the ground assault

Jason Beaudoin · October 23, 2001, 10:14

Well, then, in that case, I am completely satisfied by the recon mission option and I will probably use it often.

Wow, what a great game this is going to be.

Thanks for the clarification Grumbold

HalfLotus · October 23, 2001, 10:57

I like that fog of war is visible. In civ2 I would always forget that I hadn't "looked at" that size 2 city with phalanxes near it lately, and when I come up on it again, it's a size 10 with musketeers, yikes! With fow I know exactly the squares for which I have current intel.

LarryLard · October 23, 2001, 11:50

What would be ideal of course would be for terrain covered by the FOW to look the same as the rest (ie not shaded), but for the FOW to still exist (ie you cannot see units if you have no units to see them with

)

Which is a system that seems strangely familiar... now which highly successful 1996 game had that system... let me think...

Lorizael · October 23, 2001, 16:57

Quote:

Originally posted by HalfLotus
I like that fog of war is visible. In civ2 I would always forget that I hadn't "looked at" that size 2 city with phalanxes near it lately, and when I come up on it again, it's a size 10 with musketeers, yikes! With fow I know exactly the squares for which I have current intel.

Yah that happened to me all the time, lol. I like the shaded fog, shows that you don't really know what's there, it's sort of far off and shrouded in legend type of thing.

Mars · October 23, 2001, 17:26

Quote:

Originally posted by Grumbold
If I understand it correctly, the airplane will have a view radius like any other unit, but it will only examine in detail one selected square. So like Albie suggested, for that one square you will actually get to see the condition and composition of the full enemy stack. Very useful for knowing when to stop bombarding and launch the ground assault

Wow, maybe i will use it then, so its kind of like investigate city, where you "investigate army". That could be useful in knowing whether you or your enemy will be the victor