Game Speed

[dennis580]

I sure don't think it's easy to install computer parts. Like I said it's difficult enough for to me install a fan in my computer. I'm sure thiers lots of people who don't know how to install computer parts.

Anyway one time I try to start a work from home business with Herbalife which is a health and nutrition company. I had no success at all and ended up losing almost $2,000 which really killed me financially.

It's hard as hell for me to find ways to make money.

[Faboba]

$22s an hour!!!!

For **** sake!

I work myself half to death in a job thats only £2.50 ( $4 ish ) an hour.

It's going to take me....... a damn long time to save up for the new computer I'm planning.

I would KILL for £10 an hour. Name your target and I'll do you up a billings sheet.........

[The Templar]

Originally posted by VetteroX
Im AMAZED that some people are upset about a 300mhz req... jeez if you cant play a game that requires 300mhz and you like games... GET A NEW COMPUTER! you can get a 1ghz or better without monitor for like 600, with for 800 or less. Thats nothing. Im still only in college, I made $22/hour at my summer job, and had to buy my own food and cloths, and I still have like $4000 from that job and more from some wise investments. Im going to get a new computer this winter, and im looking to spend at least $2200. (love a powerful machine) If your still living with your parents, and you have sub 400 mhz, its really time for them to at least help you buy a new comp, if your out of school and working and cant afford 600 - 800 for a new computer, which is something useful and fun... then theres a serious problem, time to find a higher paying job.

Well goody-goo for you Mr. Fatcat McMoneybags!

You know, if people like you didn't go out and buy new machines all the time (to make up for some other inadequacies maybe?) then programmers would be forced to program down to machines that people keep around for 5 years or more. Gee, no more Microsnot bloatware? Might also be nice for the environment to have less lead leaching out of solder and into landfills. Might also be nice for the poor and dispropotionately minority to not get hosed for buying a $2000 pentium I back in '96 only to not be able to use the damn thing anymore but not have the money to afford a new computer.

My recommendation to the rest of you, if you must buy a new computer, is buy one about two generations behind and never buy a system from a Gateway or Dell. I just got a new celeron 700 w/ 256megs and a 20G HD for $200 bucks. The catch? No monitor and no operating system. But guess what? I hooked up my 17" gateway monitor and installed windows from the disk that came with my old gateway. Sure my new computer will go out of date a little quicker that Mr. McMoneybags's will, but then I'll update (at least one generation behind) for another $200. ANd you know what? If we all stick to slower machines longer, software companies who want to sell as much product as possible will tell the programmers to find some other way to deal with their penis issues and program down so that they can sell product to slower machines. But hey, if you want to buy Moore another Rolls, go ahead and buy that fast machine now for $2000. I'll pick it up in a year or two for $200. Sucker.

[The Templar]

Originally posted by VetteroX
hehehe I would join the Republicans club here, but they got a new head this year.... he wants people to make posters and come to speeches and hand out flyers and do some work... F*** that....

Figures. The one redeeming quality about many conservatives is that at least they have a solid work ethic. Guess you missed that lesson at indoctrination day

I would like to thank Firaxis actually for keeping the requirements so relatively low. Bravo!

[fluxcapacitor]

c/o CygnusZ :

Phuck You!!!
1) This forum isn't really the place to go political
2) And if you do go political, please, we've all heard plenty of your Left-Wing, Socialist BULLSHlT!!!

[The Templar]

Originally posted by fluxcapacitor
c/o CygnusZ :

Phuck You!!!

How very eloquent. May I quote you on that or was it an offer?

1) This forum isn't really the place to go political
2) And if you do go political, please, we've all heard plenty of your Left-Wing, Socialist BULLSHlT!!!

The personal is political. And funny how right after you whine about my display of politics, you proceed to display your own (I hardly think 'left-wing, socialist BULLSH*T!!!' is a value neutral description). Furthermore, who said I was a socialist? I said people should vote with their wallets and change the state of the market (reducing computer related expenses, saving the evironment, not trampling those without the money to invest in personal infrastructure thereby creating a disenfranchised class) - all of which would be in their rational self-interest. Nowhere did I mention government regulation, which would have been socialist.

Moreover, its not ok for me to discourage overconsumption but it is ok for Mr. McMoneybags to chastise someone for not keeping up with the Joneses by buing evermore expensive equipment? I guess what you meant to say was that this forum was only for your politics.

Perhaps, my young pup, you should think more carefully before hitting the send button (writing an outline might help you here). Then you can make sure your arguments aren't so hypocritical.

[healinbear]

There is an excellent book that speaks to some of these issues. It is called "The Overspent American, Why we want what we don't need". I'm not saying that everything the author (Juliet B. Schor) has to say is correct but she does bring up some good points. The one that I think applies nicely here is how we now no longer just have to keep up with the Jones that live down the street we now must also keep up with Monica and Chandler from Friends in Manhattan, and Dr Greene in Chicago from ER. And even folks posting on Apolyton from Goodness knows where. The times they are a'changin'. And it's tough to feel as good as someone else when you can't afford the same things that they so "easily" seem to afford with a modicum of effort.

[knott]

I have a relative in Estonia, she gets 2$/hour and working nights...

[Dodgedemon]

Frankly, I couldn't care less what the "Jones down the street" have.

But I've gotta agree with all my fellow college students. Getting a job in a college town that pays more than minimum wage is hard. And finding the time to work more than say 15-20 hrs. a week is even worse.

The bottom line: If you go to school full time, you're gonna be one poor SOB. Unless mummsy and daddums are footing the bill of course.

[VetteroX]

A coulpe things. Templar, Ive heard left wing babble like your for way too long now, I don't even listen anymore. Why should programmers program down for cheap skates like you? They should program for people who care about great effects in games and buy decent machines to be able to play these high end games/programs.

Secondly, I remeber there have been numerous arguments about "Americas bad, Americas good" well, heres another Good for America, people can get high paying jobs if they look around, theres more oppertunity, not like europe where you get the equiv of $4 or $2.

And whats wrong with having money if you earn it? I was working at the jobs I described, I interviewed for them, and I got em. If you people can't, thats because you messed up, not my fualt. And if europe doesnt offer good jobs, do what millions of others of your people did, move to America.

And to that other guy (I dont know how to quate) I do work when it benafits me, otherwise, there is no point.

[VetteroX]

Dodge, here and example of what a friend of mine here at college is doing to make money: Building computers for other students. He buys the parts cheap, (good parts, just finds em for lowest price possible) builds the computer, and charges a fee. Its not hard. You people can't do it? nobodys fualt but your own.

[Dodgedemon]

Now, now, now... Lets not go getting our panties in a wad here.

I'm not saying you can't get a decent job, just saying it's damn hard what with thousands of other students fighting tooth and nail for it.

As for me, I quit a $6.85/hr. job as a security guard to go work on a farm for my old school's Ag. Dept. for $5.50/hr. I'm not looking ta get rich, just enjoy life. Got nothing against all you future millionaires out there, just not my style.

[KoalaBear33]

Regarding the requirements, they should be fine. Civ isn't exactly a processor-heavy game so I can't see it being slow.

Well I don't think people should be comparing wages across continents, let alone countries. Not only do you have to look at wages, but you have to look at other things like taxes and benefits. Many European countries are more of a socialist so people there get better benefits, while getting lower wages.

I don't think anyone here is going to convince VetteroX. He is just too right-wing to consider other people. If he loses his job then he'll realize what we are all talking about...

KoalaBear33

[Dodgedemon]

I forgot this thread was about game speed. Oops...

[CygnusZ]

Originally posted by dennis580
Hell all the waiter jobs I know are mininum wage jobs. I have no clue where I could even get a job being a beelman or doorman and make $8 to $12 dollarers a hour plus tips.

The legal standards for Waiter's are that:
==============================================
If a Waiter is paid on a wage scale (which they normally are), he is entitled to recieve tips for his service. Employer's may dock 40% of the waiter's wage's as "tip credit". Being a waiter typically pays more than other minimum wage despite this hit to income.
==============================================

Now, that said, if you were to attempt to be a waiter, you would have to attempt to get a job at the most "high class" restaurant that provides the greatest rate of "turnover". There actually are a few golden jobs where you can make a real killing doing this. However, I wouldn't reccomend it as a permenant profession.

[CygnusZ]

Originally posted by fluxcapacitor
c/o CygnusZ :

Phuck You!!!
1) This forum isn't really the place to go political
2) And if you do go political, please, we've all heard plenty of your Left-Wing, Socialist BULLSHlT!!!

Isn't that a Catch-22?

[The Templar]

Originally posted by VetteroX
A coulpe things. Templar, Ive heard left wing babble like your for way too long now, I don't even listen anymore. Why should programmers program down for cheap skates like you?

I originally wrote:

ANd you know what? If we all stick to slower machines longer, software companies who want to sell as much product as possible will tell the programmers to find some other way to deal with their penis issues and program down so that they can sell product to slower machines.

That's why software makers should program down. If the vast majority of users put themselves on a five year cycle of machine replacement, if software makers want to sell more product, then they'll have to meet the specs the majority of people have. How much more capitalistic can you get? I offer a market based solution to the phenomena of planned obscelecence and I'm a socialist? Typical Republican - only favors the free market when the free market favors the rich. Against welfare for the poor, but in favor of corporate welfare.

Furthermore, I gave some advice (buying down) that would help people buy more powerfu machines on the cheap. So the fact that most people, my self included, don't like the fact that when we buy a top of the line computer for $2000+ only to see it plummet in value 6 months later makes me a cheapskate? Well Mr. Fatcat, I suggest you read a good conservative author, like Ben Franklin maybe or even Aristotle, and learn about virtue of frugality - i.e. not wasting your money

They should program for people who care about great effects in games and buy decent machines to be able to play these high end games/programs.

Is this some sort of moral imperative on the part of software makers? You did use the word 'should' after all. I would think that a good Republican would say that the moral imperative governing the software makers would be to secure the highest return for the shareholder. And what if that means programming down (because people wise up and quit buying expensive new computers)? Would it still be morally binding for developers to program up for your enjoyment in that case?

Secondly, I remeber there have been numerous arguments about "Americas bad, Americas good" well, heres another Good for America, people can get high paying jobs if they look around, theres more oppertunity, not like europe where you get the equiv of $4 or $2.

I am an American thank you very much, and I happen to think America is very good. But there is always room for improvement. And its not the exact numeric figure that counts, its the purchasing power of the money.

And whats wrong with having money if you earn it? I was working at the jobs I described, I interviewed for them, and I got em. If you people can't, thats because you messed up, not my fualt. And if europe doesnt offer good jobs, do what millions of others of your people did, move to America.

There's nothing wrong with you spending money you earned. But there isn't anything right in profligate spending. Moreover, one can be socially aware when he or she spends.

And to that other guy (I dont know how to quate) I do work when it benafits me, otherwise, there is no point.

So I suppose you won't put any of your labor into community service? How very sad.

Well Vetterox, I can see that you have thoroughly immersed yourself in right wing ideology (minus work ethic). Too bad you can't put a descent argument together. You contradict yourself (how can I be a socialist when I recommend market solutions), assume facts not in evidence (that I am not an American), and can't even keep the moral tenants of your ideology straight (putting the good of your game experience above the good of the shareholder). But hey, who needs argument when you have ideology right? Come back when you have something intelligent to say.

[CygnusZ]

Originally posted by VetteroX
A coulpe things. Templar, Ive heard left wing babble like your for way too long now, I don't even listen anymore. Why should programmers program down for cheap skates like you? They should program for people who care about great effects in games and buy decent machines to be able to play these high end games/programs.

Secondly, I remeber there have been numerous arguments about "Americas bad, Americas good" well, heres another Good for America, people can get high paying jobs if they look around, theres more oppertunity, not like europe where you get the equiv of $4 or $2.

And whats wrong with having money if you earn it? I was working at the jobs I described, I interviewed for them, and I got em. If you people can't, thats because you messed up, not my fualt. And if europe doesnt offer good jobs, do what millions of others of your people did, move to America.

Wait a second, I thought the big lesson we were supposed to be learning from the conservative leadership of America was that "home" is something special? That people shouldn't be forced to leave their home because of circumstances? Isn't that what President Bush is attempting to illustrate every time he goes back to that heck-hole he calls a ranch?

Isn't that what the entire concept of a grass-roots political movement is about? The concept of smaller government and less federal participation? Fleeing one's home is not the ultimate solution to a problem, that it is important to organize on the local level and fight for equality despite living conditions.

And yet, here you are expousing that people should just pack up and leave because they're not getting enough money where they live? This is hardly what I consider the Republican line of thought.

And everyone, next time, don't take a little political joke so seriously.

[The Templar]

Disregard I meant to clik edit, not reply with quote.

[The Templar]

Whoops! Double post.

[Jarouik]

I suggest the moderators rename this thread to something like "Comparative analysis of income between various social classes; right-wing social ethics and ideologies in connection with computer industry" and move it to the Off-Topic as soon as possible... I fail to see any discussion regarding game speed here...

On the topic of game speed, however, I am hoping and counting on that you can turn off the most processor-intensive animations etc. in Civ 3 so that any computer meeting the specifications will run the game at an acceptable speed even late in the game with lots of units visible at the same time. I can scarcely afford to replace my 400 MHz AMD K6-2 with a new computer for the sake of a single game, since I am otherwise very happy with it for the time being.

[el freako]

VetteroX,

"heres another Good for America, people can get high paying jobs if they look around, theres more oppertunity, not like europe where you get the equiv of $4 or $2."

- a classic example of an American assuming that the reason they are richer than Europe is beacuse they have higher wages.

Average Wage in 1998 (converted into dollars using Purchasing Power Parities).

United States: $37,000
Germany: $28,000
France: $29,000
Britian: $27,000

Average Hours worked per year:

United States: 2,000
Germany: 1,600
France: 1,600
Britian: 1,700

Therefore average hourly pay:

United States: $19
Germany: $17
France: $18
Britian: $16

(Source: OECD)

As you can see the real reason that Europeans earn less is because they take more leisure time than Americans do.

I myself earn around £30 ($45) an hour but then I'm in my 30's with a wife and 3 children (wives and children act like an additional 90% tax rate ).