October 26, 2001, 07:53
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#1
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King
Local Time: 18:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: the contradiction is filled with holes...
Posts: 1,398
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Why do tanks need rubber (strategic resource)?
This one specific thing just keeps puzzling me, because I'm not a tank specialist.
Why is rubber required for building tanks? Is there a logical reason for this? 
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I'm not a complete idiot: some parts are still missing.
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October 26, 2001, 07:59
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#2
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Administrator
Local Time: 17:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Delft, The Netherlands
Posts: 11,635
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if you watch the movie Saving Private Ryan you know why rubber is that important.
Every tank has 'tires' (I don't know how to name it in english)
and if you 'destroy' these 'tires' (like in SPR) the tank is useless.
no rubber, no tanks.
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Formerly known as "CyberShy"
Carpe Diem tamen Memento Mori
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October 26, 2001, 08:09
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#3
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Chieftain
Local Time: 15:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 32
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do you mean the tanks tracks?
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October 26, 2001, 08:14
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#4
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King
Local Time: 17:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: appendix of Europe
Posts: 1,634
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um kinda. well i guess they do not really need rubber but what would have been something extra that they would require so as to make them less readily availiable.
rubber was a strategic resource in WW2. i know germans had to switch to strategic variant.
try thinking about tanks as you do about mech divisions. they have not only tanks in them but many support vehicles. and they all need rubber.
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joseph 1944: LaRusso if you can remember past yesterday I never post a responce to one of your statement. I read most of your post with amusement however.
You are so anti-america that having a conversation with you would be poinless. You may or maynot feel you are an enemy of the United States, I don't care either way. However if I still worked for the Goverment I would turn over your e-mail address to my bosses and what ever happen, happens.
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October 26, 2001, 08:21
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#5
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Warlord
Local Time: 16:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: of the cold north
Posts: 162
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IIRC tank tracks aren't made of rubber they are metal plates, that's why they don't drive on normal roads it would ruin the surface of the road.
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October 26, 2001, 08:26
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#6
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Emperor
Local Time: 08:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Henderson, NV USA
Posts: 4,168
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bogie wheels
A tank's tread rolls on what are usually called "bogie wheels" -- you know, all those 8+ wheels on each side of the tank. The wheels would be on the ground if the 'track' (aka tank 'tread') was not there.
The wheels may be made of metal, but where they make contact with the track is lined with rubber. Sort of a permanent 'tire' on each wheel, I would guess 2 or 3 inches thick.
During World War II, Japan quickly conquered the vast majority of rubber producing areas in the whole world. Fortunately, "synthetic rubber" was invented by the Allies before stockpiles ran out. 
I suppose the invention of synthetic substances isn't covered too well in Civ3. 
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JB
I play BtS (3.19) -- Noble or Prince, Rome, marathon speed, huge hemispheres (2 of them), aggressive AI, no tech brokering. I enjoy the Hephmod Beyond mod. For all non-civ computer uses, including internet, I use a Mac.
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October 26, 2001, 08:27
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#7
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Chieftain
Local Time: 15:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 32
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Well thats what i thought too. I don't actually care if tank needs rubber or not as civilization is not a simulation. It's just a game balance thing to make game more fun.
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October 26, 2001, 08:35
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#8
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Prince
Local Time: 16:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: of pop
Posts: 735
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The fact that units need resources is going to make the whole experience so much more interesting...
And as LaRusso stated, there are support vehicles. Each unit in Civ represents a battallion/division IRL.
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To be one with the Universe is to be very lonely - John Doe - Datalinks
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October 26, 2001, 08:36
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#9
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Emperor
Local Time: 17:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 3,801
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Quote:
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Originally posted by LaRusso
rubber was a strategic resource in WW2. i know germans had to switch to strategic variant. try thinking about tanks as you do about mech divisions. they have not only tanks in them but many support vehicles. and they all need rubber.
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Hopefully you don't mind, LaRusso, but I'll have to
add that the rubber problem was a significant
problem also for Luftwaffe, and not only Wehrmacht.
But anyway, you're right large that Panzergruppe's need
large supply convoys (and also air protection).
That was one of the reasons for the setback in
Stalingrad.
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"Kids, don't listen to uncle Solver unless you want your parents to spank you." - Solver
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October 26, 2001, 10:22
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#10
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Prince
Local Time: 10:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 507
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Has anyone here ever worked on a car? Apparently not.
If you want to know why a tank needs rubber, then pop open the hood on any car you find and you'll notice a few rubber things in there such as...
Hoses
Gaskets
Belts
Seals
You still need rubber to have a decent engine and without an engine a tank would have a very hard time moving across the street much less the thousands of miles they might have to move to attack or defend some area.
The reasons listed are also more than likely why you need rubber for mass transit as well.
I guess some people thought tanks moved by magic?
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October 26, 2001, 10:26
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#11
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Prince
Local Time: 10:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 478
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In practical terms, Firaxis made it so that tanks would require rubber because tanks are a powerful unit in the game, and they wanted to make it hard to make.
Anyone agree?
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Of the Holy Roman Empire, this was once said:
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October 26, 2001, 10:50
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#12
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Prince
Local Time: 15:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Scotland
Posts: 389
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I agree (FWIW).
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October 26, 2001, 10:51
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#13
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Prince
Local Time: 17:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Hysteria Arctica
Posts: 556
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Jason Beaudoin
In practical terms, Firaxis made it so that tanks would require rubber because tanks are a powerful unit in the game, and they wanted to make it hard to make.
Anyone agree?
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I agree. "Rubber" could be replaced with "The Strategical Resource Needed To Build Wheeled Industrious and Modern Units" and it would make no difference. 
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Wiio's First Law: Communication usually fails, except by accident.
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October 26, 2001, 11:01
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#14
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Warlord
Local Time: 17:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Salzburg, Austria
Posts: 158
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To Jason Beaudoin: You are right. As the resources oil and rubber appears very late in the game, it can turn the complete game. IMO is it good for gameplay. 
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October 26, 2001, 11:08
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#15
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King
Local Time: 09:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,555
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That, my friends, is an example of how Civ3 can avoid the "inevitable winner" syndrome. 
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October 26, 2001, 14:03
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#16
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King
Local Time: 11:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The 3rd best place to live in the USA.
Posts: 2,744
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But I like the inevitable winner syndrome!
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With such viral bias, you're opinion is thus rendered useless. -Shrapnel12, on my "bias" against the SS.
And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worth while, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction: "I served in the United States Navy!"
"Well, the truth is, Brian, we can't solve global warming because I ****ing changed light bulbs in my house. It's because of something collective." --Barack Obama
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October 26, 2001, 14:07
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#17
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Deity
Local Time: 08:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Baron of Sealand residing in SF, CA
Posts: 12,344
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Rubber=Tanks
Actually, I have to agree with rubber being required for tanks - mainly because you would need rubber not for the tracks per se, but for the various gaskets/seals required for the engine and actual workings of the tank itself.
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____________________________
"One day if I do go to heaven, I'm going to do what every San Franciscan does who goes to heaven - I'll look around and say, 'It ain't bad, but it ain't San Francisco.'" - Herb Caen, 1996
"If God, as they say, is homophobic, I wouldn't worship that God." - Archbishop Desmond Tutu
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October 26, 2001, 16:21
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#18
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Warlord
Local Time: 15:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Chasin' Shadows in the Rain
Posts: 121
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You might need rubber for 'protection'
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"Don't know exactly where I am"
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October 26, 2001, 16:27
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#19
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Warlord
Local Time: 10:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Washington DC, USA
Posts: 134
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Quote:
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Originally posted by down th' pub
You might need rubber for 'protection'
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John 6:68
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October 26, 2001, 16:39
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#20
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Emperor
Local Time: 11:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Detached
Posts: 6,995
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Re: bogie wheels
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Jaybe
Fortunately, "synthetic rubber" was invented by the Allies before stockpiles ran out.
I suppose the invention of synthetic substances isn't covered too well in Civ3.
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Actually, synthetic parts (or something that sounds like that) is the prereq for Modern Tanks. Maybe that means it doesn't require rubber. We'll see anyway.
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October 26, 2001, 17:01
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#21
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King
Local Time: 15:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Scotland. I can't be more specific else they'll find me.
Posts: 2,277
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Actually it's 'synthetic fibres' (AFAIR) and as the 'Modern Tank' unit is really an American Abrams M1/M1A it's probably because of the synthetic compounds used to make the armour for the tank more than the rubber.
Is it the Abrams or another tank like the Leopard which uses depleted uranium as armour plating ( non radioactive natch )
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A witty quote proves nothing. - Voltaire
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October 26, 2001, 17:19
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#22
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Warlord
Local Time: 10:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Florida
Posts: 184
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Technically, you could make a tank without rubber. Specifially natural rubber is probably not the best material for a tank.
Chains could replace belts. Hoses could be made of metal. Gaskets could be made of plastic. Rubber is nice, but not a necessity.
However, like mentioned above, the tank needs a resource to depend on. I guess rubber got the role.
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October 26, 2001, 18:39
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#23
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Emperor
Local Time: 11:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Detached
Posts: 6,995
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Faboba
Actually it's 'synthetic fibres' (AFAIR) and as the 'Modern Tank' unit is really an American Abrams M1/M1A it's probably because of the synthetic compounds used to make the armour for the tank more than the rubber.
Is it the Abrams or another tank like the Leopard which uses depleted uranium as armour plating ( non radioactive natch )
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Yah, Synthetic fibers. Umm, IIRC the United States doesn't use depleted uranium for armor, the stuff is too dense.
However, the Abrams can fire sabbot rounds -- armor piercing rounds that are made of depleted uranium.
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October 26, 2001, 19:06
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#24
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Prince
Local Time: 16:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Vienna, Austria
Posts: 988
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One thing I asked myself is: 'Why donīt they need iron?
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Now, if I ask myself: Who profits from a War against Iraq?, the answer is: Israel. -Prof. Rudolf Burger, Austrian Academy of Arts
Free Slobo, lock up George, learn from Kim-Jong-Il.
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October 26, 2001, 19:57
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#25
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Emperor
Local Time: 08:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Henderson, NV USA
Posts: 4,168
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Faboba
Actually it's 'synthetic fibres' (AFAIR) and as the 'Modern Tank' unit is really an American Abrams M1/M1A it's probably because of the synthetic compounds used to make the armour for the tank more than the rubber.
Is it the Abrams or another tank like the Leopard which uses depleted uranium as armour plating ( non radioactive natch )
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'Modern Tank' looks like an M1 Abrams but is just a Modern Tank.
It is NOT the armor plating that uses the depleted uranium. Depleted uranium (very dense material) is used in anti-armor ammunition. I don't remember for sure if it is used in tank rounds, but it is definitely used in the smaller caliber guns of modern armored infantry vehicles and the A-10 Warthog attack plane.
__________________
JB
I play BtS (3.19) -- Noble or Prince, Rome, marathon speed, huge hemispheres (2 of them), aggressive AI, no tech brokering. I enjoy the Hephmod Beyond mod. For all non-civ computer uses, including internet, I use a Mac.
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October 26, 2001, 20:49
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#26
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Local Time: 02:13
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Skanky Father
Posts: 16,530
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Patriqvium
I agree. "Rubber" could be replaced with "The Strategical Resource Needed To Build Wheeled Industrious and Modern Units" and it would make no difference.
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That would be more challenging to draw than rubber, though
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I'm building a wagon! On some other part of the internets, obviously (but not that other site).
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October 26, 2001, 22:00
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#27
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King
Local Time: 11:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Dumbass
Posts: 1,096
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ANd it woudln't help at all with the 'protection' element!
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And God said "let there be light." And there was dark. And God said "Damn, I hate it when that happens." - Admiral
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October 26, 2001, 22:08
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#28
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Chieftain
Local Time: 15:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Tau Ceti
Posts: 62
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Comrade Tribune
One thing I asked myself is: 'Why donīt they need iron?
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Because they use composites.
and do you know how mch it would be ridiculous to have tank production cease because your iron ore has been lost?
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October 26, 2001, 22:37
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#29
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Prince
Local Time: 09:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Omaha,Nebraska USA
Posts: 300
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Jaybe
'Modern Tank' looks like an M1 Abrams but is just a Modern Tank.
It is NOT the armor plating that uses the depleted uranium. Depleted uranium (very dense material) is used in anti-armor ammunition. I don't remember for sure if it is used in tank rounds, but it is definitely used in the smaller caliber guns of modern armored infantry vehicles and the A-10 Warthog attack plane.
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Yes it is used in tank rounds and yes it is used in the armor also.
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The eagle soars and flies in peace and casts its shadow wide Across the land, across the seas, across the far-flung skies. The foolish think the eagle weak, and easy to bring to heel. The eagle's wings are silken, but its claws are made of steel. So be warned, you would-be hunters, attack it and you die, For the eagle stands for freedom, and that will always fly.
Darkness makes the sunlight so bright that our eyes blur with tears. Challenges remind us that we are capable of great things. Misery sharpens the edges of our joy. Life is hard. It is supposed to be.
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October 26, 2001, 22:56
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#30
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Warlord
Local Time: 15:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 127
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Quote:
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Originally posted by CyberShy
if you watch the movie Saving Private Ryan you know why rubber is that important.
Every tank has 'tires' (I don't know how to name it in english)
and if you 'destroy' these 'tires' (like in SPR) the tank is useless.
no rubber, no tanks.
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They are called tires in English too
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