Utopia

[Zopperoni]

Some more change-ideas from Mehul for the next age:

We were doing some brainstorming on ways to deal with warblocking, alliances, and the "quality of war". Here is one idea that we got that may have some potential. The details haven't been worked out, and it may be full of loopholes and thus scrapped. Please give us your thoughts & feedback on positives, negatives, and possible loopholes.

The core of the problem right now seems to be that War is simply a declared state and doesn't necessarily reflect kingdoms being at war with each other. Instead, we're looking at making war action-based.

Three basic relation options:

* Peace
* Unfriendly
* War

Peace would provide some type of bonuses similar to the current setup. Defensive bonus with additional protection for mutual peace.

Unfriendly would replace the current War status. You could declare 2 or 3 other kingdoms to be Unfriendly, and 5 or 6 kingdoms could declare you as Unfriendly. Unfriendly status simply gives a small offensive bonus (attack strength and/or attack gains), as well as a very small penalty to gains from attacking other kingdoms. The more kingdoms you declare as Unfriendly, the larger the penalty would be, but it would be minor regardless (maybe 4 or 5% for each kingdom you declare on).

War would be a mutual state. Kingdoms could no longer declare war on each other. Instead, War occurs when Unfriendly kingdoms each commit 3 or 4 successful attacks on each other. This would be an indication that both kingdoms are interested in the fight. Each kingdom could only have one war active at any given time, so wars would be one-on-one activities. War bonuses would include higher attack gains and strength, lower gains from attacking other kingdoms, as well as added protections from outside interference (lower gains from attacks by random kingdoms, more difficult magic/thievery from outside kingdoms, etc).

Here's a partial list of planned changes... Keep in mind that these are mostly minor tweaks and such.

* All aid sent & received during the first week or two of gameplay will affect trade balances.

* Aid may be taxed based on tax rates including the current shipment rather than the current setup.

* Self-Spells cast by Elves on other players will be effected by size differentials (as are all offensive spells). That is, a player casting a self-spell on a player of different size will probably get lesser results.

* The multiple-attack protection system (gangbang protection) will probably be redesigned to be more fluid and "smarter" than it currently is, as well as account for magic and thievery operations.

* Players will not be able to defect / delete accounts while their forces are out on attacks.

* We're looking at some redesigns and/or tweaks to the current war/peace system.

[War4ever]

interesting sutff..i am not sure how much of it will come to fruition this age though.... i want the race changes....the other stuff is irrevelvant at this point

[Zopperoni]

More news:

On the Relations System:

FOUR BASIC RELATIONS STATES:

NO RELATIONS
Basic status with all kingdoms in the world. No benefits or drawbacks involved.

PEACE
* Can be declared on 1 other kingdom; 2 additional kingdoms can declare peace on your kingdom.

* Provides declaring kingdom a 10% Defense bonus from attacks by the target kingdom. However, declaring kingdom also receives -20% Gains on any attacks against target kingdom.

* Peace may also reduce the effectiveness of thievery/magic between the involved kingdoms

* A Mutual Peace occurs if both kingdoms declare Peace with each other. This prevents all attacks, magic, and thievery between these kingdoms.

* A standard Peace Declaration lasts a minimum of 36 hours.

HOSTILE

* Each kingdom can declare up to 2 other kingdoms Hostile. 5 additional kingdoms can declare yours Hostile.

* Hostile relations provide all benefits/drawbacks to both kingdoms unless specified.

* Kingdoms get +10% Gains, +5% Offensive Strength on all attacks

* Multi-Attack protection is made less effective

* Attack times will be reduced (amount unknown as of yet). This may be a flat-drop, percentage drop, or negation of Island Distance penalties.

* Raze & Massacre attacks are more effective

* Declaring Kingdom gets -5% gains on all no-relations kingdoms

* Declared-on Kingdom gets -2% gains on all no-relations kingdoms

* Hostile declaration lasts a minimum of 36 hours

WAR

* Initially requires Hostile Relations; War cannot be Declared.

* War occurs when each involved kingdom commits a certain number of total hostile activities. This may include attacks, magic, and thievery, although the specifics have not been determined. Larger attacks also may count more than smaller attacks.

* +15% Gains, +10% Offensive Bonus on attacks

* -40% Gains, -40% Magic/Thievery Effectiveness on and by all kingdoms outside of warring kingdoms

* +75% Exploration Costs and Paradise Spell not available during War

* Multi-Attack Protection far less effective

* No Island Distance Penalties

* Raze/Massacre Attacks more effective than under Hostile relations

* Possible lower combat losses by both parties

* War cancels all other Hostile / Peace relations. In addition, no other declarations can be made on or by warring kingdoms for the duration of the war.

* Minimum War Time is 36 Hours

ENDING WAR - Ending war will likely be a diplomatic process with multiple options:

SURRENDER

- This option is available to either party after the minimum 36 hour duration

- Surrender will create a forced 48 Hour Mutual Peace agreement between the two kingdoms, eliminating any and all hostile actions

- Each province in the Surrendering Kingdom loses 5% of its honor (distributed evenly to winning kingdom)

- It's possible the Surrendering Kingdom will get a 24-hour protection from Hostile Declarations as well

- In this scenario, both a Winner and Loser are declared in the war

MUTUAL PEACE

* This involves a Peace Declaration by both kingdoms

* Creates a forced 24-hour Mutual Peace

* Each kingdom is credited with a "HOLD" in the war (no winner or loser)

WITHDRAWAL

* This option is available only after 48 hours of war

* Available only to "winning" side of the war - exact specifications still to be determined, but the idea is to give a clear winner an "out-clause" should the other kingdom not take action (for example, if they don't have a monarch). Possible limitations include (for example) being only available to kingdoms who have gained 10% more land than they lost.

* 1% Honor Loss to the withdrawing kingdom

* "Withdrawal" is credited towards withdrawing kingdom; "Hold" credited for opponent.

HONOR

The Honor process would be simplified under the new set up. You'd gain base amounts of Honor for NO-RELATIONS attacks. You'd gain something like +100% Honor for HOSTILE attacks and +200% honor from WAR attacks (numbers are just examples).

MAGIC / THIEVERY

Operations and Spells would be classified as available at ALL times, HOSTILE only, or WAR & HOSTILE only. All but a few operations would be available under the HOSTILE setting, but most would be most effective in WAR, least effective with NO-RELATIONS. For example, an Amnesia cast in HOSTILE would do less damage than an Amnesia cast during WAR. Specifics still need to be worked out.

OTHER DETAILS

* Kingdom History would include total wars won, lost, held, and withdrawn. Kingdoms could be ranked by War Wins and such

* All relations would be shown on Kingdom Screens for all players to see

* Current active Bonuses & Penalties would be shown on the relations screen to help make things clear

Here's a list of likely changes in the coming round. This is NOT a complete list, but still a work-in-progress:

AID:
* Trade Tax calculated including current shipment of goods
* First 10 days of gameplay involves no 50% NW Tax Limitations
* Trade balance change for recipient is based on goods received rather than goods shipped

MAGIC
* Distance penalty effects have been increased
* Size differentials on self-spells cast on others by elves reduces likelihood of success (to help prevent 200 acre provinces from effectively casting spells on 2000 acre provinces at a fraction of the cost)
* A number of spells are being re-worked to be more powerful, but in a less-permanant sort of way. For example, Nightmares may eliminate far more troops, but instead of killing them, it would simply force them into retraining. This gives Mages more short-term power but less long-term power.

THIEVERY
* Distance penalty effects have been increased

ATTACKS:
* The Multi-Attack/Gangbang Protection system has been redesigned to account for attacks, thievery, and magic. In addition, it will weigh the damage of different attacks differently and is much more fluid than the previous system. It may have to be adjusted a bit in-game, but it promises to be far more "realistic" than the current system.

BUILDINGS:
* Thieves' Dens no longer offer the Stealth benefit. Instead, they will offer +1% Thievery Effectiveness
* Dungeon Prisoners will count as 1/5 of a worker when calculating Utilization, giving users an alternative method of improving utilization ratings.

PERSONALITIES:
* Rogue will offer +1% Stealth each hour

MISCELLANEOUS:
* New Provinces will show as "Unclaimed" until a player's first login
* Players cannot Defect/Delete their account while their army is away
* We're leaning towards implementing a new relations system as described in the Relations System post.

[Zopperoni]

The changes look nice, I think I'm good going Faery/Shepherd.

[War4ever]

these changes do look interesting.....be interesting to see if they hold up throughout the round.any time they mention midgame tweaking i cringe alittle...

Faeries are going to rock next round......

as for me.... i am going elf/mystic next round i believe..still have to wait for the final race tweaks...

[Chowlett]

I figure Elven Rogue for me - I don't think I have the time to play Faery successfully, looks like it needs too much micromanagement.

[War4ever]

I am involved in a double war..... anyways i am not at risk but my KING is in some trouble...anyways....we could end a war with one kd and focus on the larger one that declared war on us.

The Queen is Marions Magic 48:10 shes not too tough but we can't repell two kds firepower..especially when one is much larger than us....

the age nears completion, please if anyone can help

thievery, magic, attacks...what ever... they have a dwarf and an undead in there as well around 1100 acres each...again not too much of a threat.....

thanks in advance and happy hunting

[Zopperoni]

Declare Peace to them, that will give you defensive bonuses

[Eli]

Mystic Elf, despite everything. Though I may try Avian.

[War4ever]

Originally posted by Zopperoni
Declare Peace to them, that will give you defensive bonuses

gr........... Zopper

[Zopperoni]

Originally posted by War4ever
gr........... Zopper

[War4ever]

zopper where have you been lately..... must be busy........ good on you..life waits for no one

[Zopperoni]

Originally posted by War4ever
zopper where have you been lately..... must be busy........ good on you..life waits for no one

Sorry, our time-zones aren't really best friends but you can always leave a msg on ICQ or on my Forums

[War4ever]

can you send me a link to your forums via icq.....

[Zopperoni]

Originally posted by War4ever
can you send me a link to your forums via icq.....

it's in my sig, but here you go:

http://zopper.netfirms.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi

[War4ever]

hehe... i am blind as a bat..... thanks again,

[Zopperoni]

Well, the idea of "no major changes" has been officially thrown out the window. More possible changes listed below:


BUILDINGS:

* Mills will be upped to 4% / 80% Max
* Barracks: 2.5% / 50% Max
* Forts: 2.5% / 50% Max (Battle Losses)
* Hospitals: 5% / 80% Max
* Watchtowers: 5% / 50% Max; plus, 5%/50% Max of identifying opposing thieves when operations fail
* Schools: 1.5% / 60% Max
* Universities: 4% / 80% Max
* Libraries: 1.5 Points / Day
* Dungeons: Prisoners no longer naturally die (they still die of Plague, though)
* Homes: Require $10 / Day in Maintenance

* The Home theory is that other buildings pay for their operations through profits generated by whatever business. Homes, do not, and therefore require maintenance.

MAGIC:

* Anonymity will be available to Humans, Halflings, and Faeries
* Patriotism will also lower the effects of Propaganda
* Droughts will also slow the draft process and cancel any Storm spells
* Storms will also lower attack strength slightly (3%) and cancel any Drought spells
* Haste has been renamed to "Builders' Boon"
* Meteor Showers are weaker and more difficult to cast
* Greed also increases draft expenses
* Nightmares do more damage, but instead of killing troops, it simply forces them into retraining for 12 hours.
* Amnesia does more damage, but much of it is temporary. Most of the lost science is simply placed into re-learning, while a small portion is lost permanently.
* New Spell, LandLust, simply steals enemy land. Spell will be war-only, relatively weak and difficult to cast, but count towards combat gains/losses in wars.

[Zopperoni]

Me laffs @ the Home Theory

[Zopperoni]

I'm tempted to go Elf frankly...

[War4ever]

i am not sure how much i like the land grabbing spell.....i sense an age or loopholes and problems......

not sure what to pick yet..still no race changes announced

[Eli]

****. I was counting on no major changes.

Houses require 10$? Crap.

[Zopperoni]

Originally posted by Eli
****. I was counting on no major changes.

Houses require 10$? Crap.

Yeah, with Schools pushed up to 1.5%, I think a lot of people will max out Population Science and go 40% Schools...

[War4ever]

it will be a good age for mills too..... who needs homes.... pop science max, schools, and mills ....

elf mage seems like a good bet....halflings will rock too

[Eli]

I will still have to go with Homes. You just cant keep 60+DPA without them...

[Zopperoni]

Originally posted by Eli
I will still have to go with Homes. You just cant keep 60+DPA without them...

How so not?

Maxed out Pop-sci + 40% Schools is better than maxed out Pop-sci + 40% Homes.

And as a Faery I guess I can run 60+ dpa easily that way, I only need 10 Beastmasters per acre for 60.

And if the 3/90-Armories change is going through, Faeries will rule

[Ecthy]

Originally posted by Eli
I will still have to go with Homes. You just cant keep 60+DPA without them...

now that makes perfect sense you geek

[Zopperoni]

More changes!

This is an updated list of BUILDING changes (overriding all previous building change lists):

BUILDINGS

* Mills will be upped to 3% / 75% Max (building costs)
* Armouries: 2% / 70% Max
* Barracks: 0.5% / 20% Max to Offense Bonus
* Forts: 2.5% / 50% Max (Battle Gains)
* Hospitals: 5% / 80% Max (Combat Losses)
* Watchtowers: 4% / 60% Max (Both Training Costs & Catching Thieves); plus, 4%/60% Max of identifying opposing thieves when operations fail
* Schools: 1.5% / 60% Max
* Universities: 3% / 75% Max
* Libraries: 1.5 Points / Day
* Dungeons: Prisoners no longer naturally die (they still die of Plague, though); Prisoners work 1/5 of a single job for Utilization purposes
* Thieves' Den: No Longer has 1% Stealth Bonus, but now offers +1% Thievery Effectiveness (No Max)
* Homes: Require $10 / Day in Maintenance

MISCELLANEOUS ADDITIONAL CHANGES

* Land Lust will destroy but not capture land when cast in-kingdom
* Townwatch no longer reduces gains in combat
* Science points required to maintain level science will rise more quickly as a province grows

We are also looking at the General Personality and how to incorporate the Conquest Attack with the new relations system. One interesting possibility is to make Conquest available for Generals during HOSTILE relations, and having it available to ALL players during War. This ensures everyone, big or small, can participate to some extent in War. No decision has been made on this yet.

[Eli]

Originally posted by Zopperoni
Maxed out Pop-sci + 40% Schools is better than maxed out Pop-sci + 40% Homes.

Dont forget that schools employ more people than houses. And the effects it will have on your utilization.

[star mouse]

I must admit being in a top 50 Utopia kingdom is fun, even if it is on the WoU server.

[Eli]

* The AID change mentioned earlier regarding * Trade balance change for recipient is based on goods received rather than goods shipped has been scrapped.

* Anonymity will result in no honor gains from attacks made

* Science will get marginally cheaper as the game progresses ($1 / real day). Science now starts a bit more expensive.

* Generals will get the Conquest Attack during both WAR and HOSTILE, and will have a more powerful version than other players, who now will get the attack in WAR.

Final changes, including some minor race changes, will be posted later this evening. As of now, we plan no additional changes (outside of race changes) to those listed above and in the New Relations System post, but there could still be minor adjustments between now and tonight.