CivIII AI - First Glance...MUCH BETTER

David Floyd · October 30, 2001, 17:21

The title says it all...the AI seems much better...

I started a trial game on Prince, just to get the feel for it - and the fooking Aztecs started overrunning me and capturing my workers and stuff with their mass produced fast infantry...I couldn't believe it!!!

The old hunker down, passive defense, building strategies won't work, I think, at least they haven't yet for me...gotta be more aggressive, build mountain fortress chains, defend borders...it's weird, but GOOD weird.

The diplomat · October 30, 2001, 18:17

I am glad to hear that! We need more opinions from true civers who have actually played the game.

David Floyd · October 30, 2001, 18:37

Quick update:

Started a new game as the Germans (gotta love Militarism/Scientific).

CUTTHROAT competition for space on the continent...I think every Civ is concentrated on one uber-continent, and fortunately I am on the edge...only the Japanese are farther away from the center...even still it is getting hard to find space. BUT 2 Horse resources AND an IRON resource popped up within 2-3 squares from my cities!!!!!

I'm securing my borders, gonna play perfectionist in this game I think...no more than 12-15 cities, probably, for me in the end...no wars as of yet, though...

Zanzin · October 30, 2001, 18:46

Sounds cool

I'll be happy if the AI knows how to kick arse with navy-land-air units in the modern, as if waging a true "huge" war.

David Floyd · October 30, 2001, 19:05

I'll be happy if I GET to the modern age instead of getting crushed by the Japanese and French...the Japanese almost declared war on me a second ago...

I wonder....can you fortify a unit on a special resource square to deny it to another player until you are ready for it? As in, if you locate the majority of the iron squares, can you just dump a warrior on each one to monopolize the iron on your continent? Hmmmm.....

At least I have swordsmen now...that'll be something...and 3 regular spearmen in each city plus reserve archers, chariots, and swordsmen should be enough to deter/fight off the Japanese...they also have two small cities that I cut off and surrounded early in the game...I could probably nab those and force a peace if necessary...

OK, back to the game

Simpleton · October 30, 2001, 19:31

How about the "feel" of the game. Does it have that Civ feel? Does it seem like the type of game that you have to play one more turn ala Civ and Civ2?

Please say yes.

marcuspeddle · October 30, 2001, 19:48

This doesn't sound hopeful for players like myself who like peaceful building. Someone else said somewhere that the AI expands like crazy. I suppose that's not so bad as long as they don't go declaring war for no reason.

David Floyd · October 30, 2001, 19:50

Yes it does...right at the moment, I'm still trying to figure it out...I mean I'm around 300 AD and can't even get Monarchy yet, so for me advancing is kinda slow - by now I'm usually mostly finished researching on much higher levels...it'll be even more fun when I get all the concepts down...like I said this is my experimental game...I just fought an experimental war with the Japanese, right next to me...they have learned to concentrate their units against one target at a time, as a human would do...I played the war about 5-10 turns, then reloaded...I wasn't ready to fight I just wanted to sneak an early peak at the warmaking AI of the computer...I'm very impressed so far.

ixnay · October 30, 2001, 19:53

I went to war with the Germans, and the next thing I know, they have enlisted the help of the Aztecs and French! Now I'm being overrun by swordsmen and jaguar warriors and getting thouroughly stomped.

David Floyd · October 30, 2001, 19:55

Anatolia...

No, the AI hardly ever declares war...they might demand some stuff, but they aren't war-crazy...even amongst themselves...you DO have to expand like a mad man if you want to get anywhere...early on I was in a land race with the Japanese...they had like 10 cities by the time I had 5...I stabilized my borders, stuff like that, isolated some of their far off cities with my own...but it's still very touch and go with regards to expansion and city space.

ixnay...

Yes those Jaguar warriors are tough as hell, because they get to retreat - you can't kill the bastards half the time.

Comrade Tribune · October 30, 2001, 20:14

Yes, all that does sound very good; play on and tell us more.

David Floyd · October 30, 2001, 21:21

NEW DISCOVERY!!!

Because Monarchy comes so much later in Civ3, and is obviously very important, the computer AIs will try to give you ANYTHING for Monarchy. Don't do it! Do...not...do....it...no...matter...what!

I can't emphasize this enough!

If you are first to Monarchy, don't trade it away for one, two, three or more advances...let everyone else languish in Despotism, while you are gaining significant leads in technology as a Monarchy (oh, and you KNOW that if you give it away even ONCE, everyone else will get it somehow).

Back to Civ3...

Comrade Tribune · October 30, 2001, 21:41

Or sell Monarchy to three others in the same turn.

If all of them give you lots of stuff it will make your day, I mean, millenium.

David Floyd · October 30, 2001, 22:02

Except that they mostly have the same stuff...I'd say research it on your own and leave them in Despotism, while you're on your way to Republic or Democracy.

joey703 · October 30, 2001, 22:16

Quote:

Originally posted by David Floyd
The title says it all...the AI seems much better...

I started a trial game on Prince, just to get the feel for it - and the fooking Aztecs started overrunning me and capturing my workers and stuff with their mass produced fast infantry...I couldn't believe it!!!

The old hunker down, passive defense, building strategies won't work, I think, at least they haven't yet for me...gotta be more aggressive, build mountain fortress chains, defend borders...it's weird, but GOOD weird.

I dunno to what extent the AI has been improved, but I know that they expand like crazy. Plus the Americans are right next to me and they expand even more(you can tell from my game that the expansionist trait makes the AI expand like mad). Anyways they just declared war on me, and I dunno whats gonna happen. Btw, I'm playing on prince.

David Floyd · October 30, 2001, 22:26

joey, I think everyone's playing on Prince to start with, this should give us a good basis for discussion.

Watch out! They will mass their units before attacking, not throw them in piecemeal. They'll overwhelm you a city at a time if you aren't careful.

dainbramaged13 · October 30, 2001, 22:30

hey, im playing on chieftan just to see how easy it would be, and althouygh ive only played about an hour and a half, im still about even with the AIs militarily. of course,, im advancing more culturally, but they all have mopre cities than me, and i usually considermyself on an expansionist!

props to Soren and co!

marcuspeddle · October 30, 2001, 22:31

Quote:

Originally posted by David Floyd
Anatolia...

No, the AI hardly ever declares war...they might demand some stuff, but they aren't war-crazy...even amongst themselves...you DO have to expand like a mad man if you want to get anywhere...early on I was in a land race with the Japanese...they had like 10 cities by the time I had 5...I stabilized my borders, stuff like that, isolated some of their far off cities with my own...but it's still very touch and go with regards to expansion and city space.

Well, that sounds okay. I guess I'll have to expand until I run out of space and then work on diplomacy, building up my cities, and so on.

Akillias · October 30, 2001, 22:33

one advice: trade money for city and then try to conquer a civilization with culture and military units

Sarxis · October 30, 2001, 23:43

Quote:

Originally posted by Anatolia
This doesn't sound hopeful for players like myself who like peaceful building. Someone else said somewhere that the AI expands like crazy. I suppose that's not so bad as long as they don't go declaring war for no reason.

Yes, the AI does seem to like occupying every nook and cranny. But as long as you expand quicker and leave no holes for the AI to fill, there doesn't seem to be a problem.

I have been playing a game on Monarch, and all I have to say is that the AI is putting up some decent competition. I have the second highest score, with everyone following me coming up real close. The leader (England btw, not Briton) is quite a bit in the lead (by about 100 points). Its been peaceful, and ever since my anceint era war that I instigated (I am Babylon, had to use my Bowman), I have been able to play a builder's game.

The AI definately is wiser when it comes to battle tactics too. Had several cases where the AI counter attacked perferctly, destroying my units in the field, and reclaiming his lost cities.

Sarxis · October 31, 2001, 00:55

Quote:

Originally posted by David Floyd
No, the AI hardly ever declares war...they might demand some stuff, but they aren't war-crazy

OH YEAH??!!

The English are ahead of me in points (like I was just saying), and I have this nice little, juicy Iron providing town near their borders.

They just pounced me there with some friggin' knights, and took my town, without the slightest provocation from me!!

I want my Iron-Town back!!!

Very kewl actually, that the AI knew it needs those resources. And it didn't just send one silly knight after that town- it sent a few units that way.

connorkimbro · October 31, 2001, 01:06

my first game was actually not as chieftan, but as warlord (im using civ2 names, because i already forgot the civ3 names, silly me)

huge map 16 civs. it was kind of overwhelming at first. i had my ass handed to me on a plate.

i'll start a new game, and play further this time, to get a better idea of the whole game. but the AI does seem very impressive.

Moral Hazard · October 31, 2001, 03:22

I have tp agree the AI is quite impressive so far. As already mentioned the building AI takes cues from your actions which is nice.

The enemy military AI's been quite good so far.

Example I was playing the Americans in my first game on Prince (Regent actually) and my two buddies the Aztecs and the Iroquois were hanging out nearby. The Aztecs demanded an advance, didn't give it to them so they got pissed and declared war (actually it was their second, assenine request).

Anyways New York's well defended with a wall and several spear man; the AI launches several attacks against NY, before decided it would be best to skirt the city and hit me deeper. Not only did they concentrate on a weaker defended city(Philly), but they cut the roads in key places; so It was harder to bring troops up from the back. Funny thing is Philly fell 5 times and each time I got it back thanks to it's high culture rating(personally I think the only good thing about Philly is their cheesesteak, but one should never underestimate the power of good food

).

The important thing is that the AI seems to be using his troops like a bloody human. I'm impressed.

Moral Hazard · October 31, 2001, 03:24

Addendum:

Forgot to mention the bloody Aztecs got the Iroquois to go along in their little vendetta, so I was being attacked from both sides.

Travathian · October 31, 2001, 04:12

Keep in mind that there is no ZOC anymore (for the most part). This makes defense and enemy troop management much more difficult. The AI is definitely more aggressive as far as expansion. Acquisition of key resources should be top priority.

Whoever said that the computer will do anything for Monarchy is wrong, the computer will do anything for any gov't advance it doesn't have.

No more warmongering, unless you don't mind moving at a slow trawl with a huge army. The addition of dissedents means hanging around a conquered city with more than a couple units for defense until they are quelled. With double the computers culture, it was still taking more than a few turns to shut the $&%*@s up. On defense, this means if you lose a city, and you have a high culture, there's a chance you'll get the city back in a couple turns if you can take care of most of the defenders.

LaRusso · October 31, 2001, 05:09

people you have just put a huge

on my face. this sounds really really promising!
if the AI can at least emulate human behaviour, i'll be more than happy. we all know that sooner or later people will find the way to beat it silly but at least it will be some time before that happens!
i cannnot wait to play the game. my ups parcel is rerouted b/c i wrote the zip code incorrectly. my fault...

Adm.Naismith · October 31, 2001, 05:42

Anyone care to notice how AI managed the Golden Ages?

Does it seems to trigger ASAP with its Special Unit or it goes for the Wonders peaceful way?

How do you managed Golden, too (as a counter-acting to AI GA or following your own strategy?)

TIA

LaRusso · October 31, 2001, 05:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Adm.Naismith
Anyone care to notice how AI managed the Golden Ages?

Does it seems to trigger ASAP with its Special Unit or it goes for the Wonders peaceful way?

once you make your custom italian civ, it;s gotta be a peaceful trigger. on the other hand, i also have no choice with my custom serbian civ

The diplomat · October 31, 2001, 09:01

wow. I am more and more impressed with what players are saying about the AI. It looks like civ3 has a real AI. Thanks everybody for sharing this info with us.

(I should be getting my copy of civ3 tomorrow or the next day. I can't wait, the game looks so good.)

Sava · October 31, 2001, 09:31

Quote:

Originally posted by LaRusso

once you make your custom italian civ, it;s gotta be a peaceful trigger. on the other hand, i also have no choice with my custom serbian civ

Serbs rule!!

I'm gonna wet myself I am so excited about this game. I'll have it in three more hours..... AHHHAHAHAHAH ITS KILLING ME, THE SUSPENSE