JADED CIVERS THREAD; super kewl/radical newbies keep out.

[TCO]

Ming,

Compare your experience in terms of civ1 -> Civ2 vs civ2 -> civ3.

[ravagon]

Originally posted by GP
Ming,

Compare your experience in terms of civ1 -> Civ2 vs civ2 -> civ3.

Um. I will second that Ming. As I'm sure you've already seen, a number of posts in various threads have suggested wanting reactions from some of the more respected (w.r.t your civving skills no doubt. I don't think your moderatorship is always so, er, how would you put it ... appreciated by everybody ) members.
Care to post opinions, even if they're only first impressions as yet?

[Zylka]

Originally posted by Zanzin
I think Zykla better go back to playing Civ2.

I think nap and cookies sounds good...

[Zylka]

P.S.

I am Stockwell Day.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Zylka
P.S.

I am Stockwell Day.

That would be *SO* fitting.

[Zylka]

Originally posted by Asher


That would be *SO* fitting.

I see the liberal PR department has successfully drilled into your nogin as well?

Stock is nowhere near as bad as me

[Asher]

Zylka, I live in Alberta.
Don't you say that L word around me.

Edit: I see you're from Calgary also.
You stud you.

[TCO]

Ming???

[ravagon]

Originally posted by GP
Ming???

*Bump*

What he said...

[Zylka]

Don't worry guys, you've already won the argument. You're going to love the game. It's got a swell map of Europe and some really neat/funny animations of cavemen playing circus games

Plus, for an extra 25$ you get a tin box and an unfocsed printout of the tech tree! This low upgrade cost alone proves that selling out was not an issue.

Enjoy.

[Jason]

This is perhaps the most momentous crime by the betrayers of Civ yet, the fuzzy tech chart? The incredibly redundant chart, since pretty much everyone uses the bloody in-game chart to queue their research anyway?

Which isn't to say it isn't sloppy workmanship, but the entire idea of the cookie-tin version is just sad anyway. I'll take my $54 cdn version thanks.

If you want to critisize the game, wouldn't it be sensible to return to the 2 points that are actually legitimate, the multiplayer and the (lack of) scenerio editor? Because the rest of this garbage is pitiful. "The oceans are too pale," "my registration mail-in card was torn" "my limited edition CD had the wrong signatures on it," lol.

[Zylka]

Agreed. Perhaps if we ignore the embarassing shortcomings one at a time, they won't add up.

They won't add up...
They won't add up...
They won't add up...

[Zylka]

Originally posted by Asher
Zylka, I live in Alberta.
Don't you say that L word around me.

Edit: I see you're from Calgary also.
You stud you.

Why would you figure I'm in Calgary?

[techumseh]

Calgary, eh? How are things in the City of Cows?

ps. Will you take Ralph back? Please?

[Ballz1998]

Originally posted by Zylka
Like I said, I don't expect any of you morons to understand. The only ones who will agree with me and know what I'm talking about are the legends who know number 2 inside out.

Man.. what exactly did you want? Civ 2 with borders and improved AI? Personally I would have been happier with just that, but instead they gave me a game with borders, improved AI, graphics, increased diplomacy options... like OMG i love the diplomacy, how I can extort money per turn for treaties!!! And as for having to develope culture which basically amounts to "status" in the game... thats good stuff man!!! If your civ has no culture the other ones are going to invade and divide your land up just like real civilizations have done for centuries. The game is great and I'm sorry if its not what you wanted... perhaps someone can now get the code for Civ 2 and add borders, tweak the AI ect???

[Pods]

This Zyklown is a troll, let's not give him our time and leave him to rot in his antiCiv3 for all time.

For the record, I'm a Mac user who won't get to play Civ3 until next year, but from what I can see of the complaints, it seems they are either not gameplay issues (no MP, which is I understand a grevious issue for some, but it's not about how well the game works, is it?) or not relevant (someone else stated the same incredulity I feel about that ocean colour remark). Also it seems alot of people may not have got the hang of the new systems yet. It *is* a different game from Civ2, after all.

Anyway, this thread is so sad, let's just leave it to die out and Zyklus to bemoan forever his 'lost' Civ3... really ought to invest that emotion somewhere else Zyklus.

And one other point - all the naysayers seem to think that Firaxis owes the Civ gamers something, seem to think it is Firaxis' duty to make a game that appeals to their rarified Civ sensibilities, which are as exclusivist and, well, weird, as any other fringe minority group's thinking. They made this game not for your benefit, but to make money, and in order to do so they made a game that would be as much fun to as many users as possible. If they'd sold only to the hardcore Civ2 vanguard, Civ3 *would* suck and no one but Zyklus and his civenlightened (good word, btw) friends would buy it.

And one last thing - that nasty swipe about the Maritimes was so lame and disgusting and I am sure unfounded, that it was just ridiculous. Go crawl up a moose's ass and shut up!

This obscure thread has been the recieving ground for the rant that all the lamers have induced.



S.

[Setsuna]

Don't let the truckling idiots get you down, Zylka. I think this thread was just unfortunate to attract all of the can-do-no-wrong crowd.

As you probably have seen in other threads, not everyone thinks like these complacent peeps. The argument for change will slowly gain momentum until the obsequious crowd is mowed down.

Hang in there!

[Cougz]

This is for all the people unhappy with civ3, including the ones who haven't even bought it, and also for everyone who is enjoying the game...

A few years ago some doctors conducted a psychological experiment. They found two boys, one was always happy and cheery , the other was always unhappy, moping around .

They put the happy boy in a room filled with nothing but horse manure and locked the door.

They put the unhappy boy in a room filled with toys and games and candy and birthday cake, you name it, if it was fun, it was in there, and locked the door.

They left them like that for four hours.

Then they went to check on the unhappy boy. He was sitting in the middle of the room crying his little eyes out, surrounded by all this fun. One doctor knelt down and ask him what was wrong. He replied "With all these toys and games and food around, I don't know what to do first."

Amazed, the doctors went to the other room and opened the door. The happy boy was jumping around the room, scooping up manure and chucking it at the walls, laughing all the way. The doctors stopped him and asked what on earth he was doing. "With all this horse manure there most be a pony around here somewhere!!" He laughed.

There seems to be two types of people on this board, those who keep finding the bad, and those who know that nothing is perfect and want to have fun anyway.

And while civ3 is far better than horse manure, I just found a pony!!! I'm gonna make me some horsemen!!!

[Jason]

The argument for change will slowly gain momentum until the obsequious crowd is mowed down

Do you need someone to sing the internationale while you march?

Why do people have to stage a hunger strike because their Civ3 cockring wasn't included in the LE? Get some sense of proportion.

[Sarcastro]

Originally posted by ProfessorPhobos
(On a related note: I tried quoting what he said, but it only gives me the <<<>>> in my post. What happened to what he said?)

The "quote" tag only grabs words with some actual value. For instance, ad-hominem arguments don't get quoted. Unfounded assertions and refusals to make any concrete points are also left out. It's a UBB-streamlining thing.

[Ballz1998]

what all the gamers want. Your wrong you don't know, thats impossible. A good gaming company is one that listens to the gamers (like firaxis does) but also knows that consumers don't know jack about what they REALLY want as a group. Take everquest for example... best MMORPG out there, soon to be eclipsed by Dark Age of Camelot, but still was Revolutionary. All you hear about it is how buggy it is, blah blah blah... but if its such a crappy game why do those people spend 50+ hours a week playing it.

For those who have read "programming is hard, givem some credit" posts before, you can go ahead and stop reading now :-).

It's easier to make generalized complaints instead of saying... "ok hey this camping is really a bad issue, why don't you try for random spawn locations and random item drops" (just an example). Instead we get Camping sux, fix it... Civ's AI sucks fix it, the graphis suck fix it, diplomacy sux fix it.

Blah.. . . whatever, gamers as a whole don't know what they want, and the majority don't know what is possible and what is not. The perfect game that I see being described on the boards is impossibly complex... to the point that instead of playing the game you might as well try to start your own country in real life.

Have any of you ever programmed a maze solver in C++? I have and let me tell you, learning how to right code is one thing, but making it do what you want it to efficiently is another. Im sure a good amount of people around here have dabbled in some basic programming. I dropped my comp sci major because I decided that sitting in front of a computer 8 hours a day beating my brain out to find one wrong command or one misplaced function call for the rest of my life wasnt my cup of tea.

Programming is HARD WORK, VERY HARD WORK. And tho being hard is no excuse for bad programming, people should realize that sometimes people don't see a problem in the code until just before release, then its just to late to fix in some cases. So they get hammered by gamers saying... I can't believe blah blah blah.

Civ3 is going to be around a long time... they didn't mess up. They had a time frame to work in and simply had to focus on what THEY felt was the core of the game. Give firaxis some constructive input and maybe they will fix whatever problems you see in the game before the "patch window" closes. . .

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Oh wow. Zylka's a prime source of amusement on the On-Topic forums too. I really must stop by more often.

[Green Giant]

I am not that angry with firaxis anymore. They implemented some design desisions that are awesome, and some that are not so great. The corruption thing is a little annoying, but weren't people complaining about how easy Civ 2 was with ICS? The missing features are still an annoyance but it was no surprise that MP was gone so whats the big deal? Despite the numerous problems you have to admit SP can be very addictive at times. There is no way I am going to get my money back so I might as well try to make the best of what I have.

[TCO]

Mingie???

[Setsuna]

Ballz, I'm not mad at Firaxis (I reserve my anger for Infogrames.) If Firaxis was given all the time they needed, like Blizzard for example, we would still be waiting for the game.

No, I'm merely annoyed with the "THIZ G4M3 R0X0RS AS 1S!!!!1 D0/\/t C|-|ang3 a th1ng!!!!1" crowd.

[Sirotnikov]

Maybe Zylka over reacted, maybe not. I don't have Civ III yet.

Still, I do understand his disliking of the mindless "wow this is soo cool since it animates" crowds. Some people thin AoK is the same as Civ.

I saw a nice story about how one's sister likes Britney's crappy music. Just because she likes it, doesn't make it any better or sophisticated, and in no way can you say it's better than say Bethoven.

Civ is the Bethonven of strategy games. People are worried that Civ III is not close enough to the stadards and feels "cheaper". Red Alert 2 was perhaps among the best selling games of last year, but it's also among the crappiest games of all times.

The feeling some oldies get is that Firaxis (or more likely Infogrames) looked greedily at the idiots crowd who like things that are shiney, and made decisions to make Civ III shinier at the cost of being deeper.

Still, it's closer to Civ, since if they had wanted to sell, they merely had to do a 3D RTS or something. But from what I read, some parts, especially the completely idiotic unique units, make the game feel cheapened.

It feels like those were added just so that the game box could read "16 unique historic civilizations".

Well this makes us, true civvers, who want to make our civ unique by gameplay choises rather than by selecting a "race" even before the game started, feek bad and sold out.


What I completely don't get is the zealous need of many people to come out, and eagerly respond while jumping up and down - "oooh, ooh, I like the game! It's colorfull and sparkly! And you're a snob too! But I like the game, therefore it's ok!". These followed by gazillions of "me too"ers.

Sure, Zylka behaved in a way which is a bit similar, but still, more restrained. This need to "convert" is unbelievable.

[Sinapus]

So far, I'm having fun. My only gripes are more of the "I can't use the same strategies I used in Civ2" so far. You know, like stockpiling food caravans all over the place to build wonders incredibly fast.

So most of my trouble with the game appears to be having to relearn some new strategies... and finding the right resources. I *would* like to be able to save the map of a current game and open it up in the editor so I could look at how it distributes resources. The last few games I've played seem to keep putting me in a place with absolutely no iron nearby. That and even at Warlord level the other civs seem to run rings around me.

[Zylka]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

Civ is the Bethonven of strategy games. People are worried that Civ III is not close enough to the stadards and feels "cheaper". Red Alert 2 was perhaps among the best selling games of last year, but it's also among the crappiest games of all times.

The feeling some oldies get is that Firaxis (or more likely Infogrames) looked greedily at the idiots crowd who like things that are shiney, and made decisions to make Civ III shinier at the cost of being deeper.

What I completely don't get is the zealous need of many people to come out, and eagerly respond while jumping up and down - "oooh, ooh, I like the game! It's colorfull and sparkly! And you're a snob too! But I like the game, therefore it's ok!". These followed by gazillions of "me too"ers.

Sure, Zylka behaved in a way which is a bit similar, but still, more restrained. This need to "convert" is unbelievable.

The above example is of a genius, creating the most logical post in this thread, to date.

Civ trying to immitate the likes of red alerts' success? Of course not, just think of all the super cool special units each civ gets!!!

[Zylka]

...and yes Sinapus, I'll admit that they fixed a few logistic flaws of number 2 as well.

But honestly... instead of getting a world map of Europe, we get a 3-D (!!! !!!) animation of a caveman warrior playing a carnival game. Multiply that concept by a thousand, get my drift?

[Zylka]

Originally posted by Bugs ****ing Bunny
Oh wow. Zylka's a prime source of amusement on the On-Topic forums too. I really must stop by more often.

Did the social services joke hit a little close to home?