"Of Celts and Iberians" available for download

A bit later than originally planned, but "Of Celts and Iberians -- Conquest of the Silver Country" is finally available for download. Check it out at the Spanish Civilization Site

Send flames, constructive criticisms and, best of all, saved games to [e-mail]spanish@apolyton.net[/e-mail]


My deep gratitude to Rob Roy, Cam Hills and Stefan Härtel for sharing their wisdom with me.

[Prometeus]

I've just finished to keep an eye over the new units' section.

This is my hint: the look of Roman Republican legions ( and some of iberian units ) was a little different from your images. I was making a Mediterranean Rome scenario, but i got bored of it: so i left it unfinished. I still have the images on a CD somewhere in my room. If you want to see them, just keep on whistling ( oviously you must read this "italianized" english: call me -> send me an e-mail ): i'll send my images to you.

I also made a Civ2 scenario about Celts ( six tribes !!! Terrible !!! ) and Romans: i called it Britain. It's on the same CD.
Maybe I'll find something useful there - DISCLAIMER it's written in Italian language, so you may not be able to understand it; just ask i'll send you some stuff.
Best regards
Prometeus

[Prometeus]

Ooops, sorry !!!

My e-mail is fratelli.goddi@tiscalinet.it

quote: First: the wrong helmet shape ( it's the IMPERIAL helmet you used in your scenario

Forgive if I am wrong, but are you sure that Roman soldiers wore a Republican helmet at the time of the Iberian conquest? That would shock me. On a comical note, I do not see much difference between the helmets of the Romans in my scenario and those drawn by Uderzo for the adventures of Asterix

Moreover, the Roman icon is adapted from the one in the original Civ. One needs easy identifiable symbols.

quote: Second: the PILUM shape ( the pointed spear was attached to a longer iron bar

Prometeus, a longer spear would not fit into the unit slot. There are in addition, aestethical considerations.

quote: Third: the iberian shields were usually made of metals, ROUNDED, SMALL SHAPED ( another "celticized" design ) and PAINTED ( using always TWO COLORS

Please take a look again at some of the Iberian unit icons, please

quote: Fourth: you missed the Roman veteran unit, the "triarius"; it was phalanx-like, carrying a very long spear and a big shield.

You're correct. I have also missed many other Roman units. The way you describe the "triarius", wouldn't it fit into the generic "pillum" cathegory?


Fifth (mine): I am surprised you have not made any comment regarding the length of the sternum and its relation with the iberian falcata.


Thanks so much for your comments, I really appreciate them.

J.B.

[BeBro]

Hey Prometeus, I´m interested in your unit bmps, especially the Cathargian Infantery pic. Please, can you send these pics (zipped) to me? They would help me a lot, if I start to make an update of my Rome scn.

JB, I like the units from your scn, despite the fact that the Roman spears aren´t long enough...

[Stefan Härtel]

The helmets were different from area to area. For example, a Gallic helmet had better protection for the whole head than, for example, a Roman one.
And Prometheus is right, the republican helmets differed dramatically from the imperial ones. The republican helmets were smaller and thinner(not to mention a lot shorter in the back).
The ones in the Asterix comics are precisely the republican ones, while the ones that can be found on the later Roman reliefs (I wish I had a famous example handy-take the Romans in "Gladiator" or any other movie that takes place after "Ben Hur" and "Spartacus") are, of course imperial.
But in the graphics, its a matter of two or three pixels, so that takes no influence.

But has anyone noticed the hard work Jesús put into this scenario making it one of the best (if not THE best) recent scenarios???
I wish that "Darius 2.2" would become as good...

------------------
Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong!

Our survival is based on continouus changing.
-Mao Tse-Tung
God might have created us as equals, but democracy and science pretty
much screwed that whole idea..
-Onepaul


Visit my Homepage at: http://members.xoom.com/SHaertel/Index.html

[Prometeus]

( referred to sternum lenght )
Another historical hint:
as i told before, Polibius is a good historical font. Numantia's war affair, the siege and the final taking of this Celtiberic town were described by him because he was a Emilianus close friend, so he listened - IN HIS VERY FIRST PERSON, i apologyze for this "italianization" - all of the stories about the Scipio family' Spanish campaigns.
The point is : one of the most important Cartagena' ( or Nova Carthago, as you prefer ) surrending terms, was the tribute of 300'000 IBERIAN SWORDS in order to satisfy the weapon needs of the whole Roman army. I can tell you nothing about the tribute' sword shape or kind, sorry ... i can describe very well the metallurgy process of making swords in ancient Spain instead.

The PILUM kind is better referred to "hastati" ( the first line in Roman legion, remember? The Punic wars sequence was velites ( light skirmishers-explorers )-hastati-principes-triarii + alae sociorum, the chavalry, provided by Italic allies or "socii" ).

Sorry for iberian units - perhaps i failed to express myself - but the big shield one seems to me more like a chief picture. It's a bit too rich ... much more like a "parade" kind.
[This message has been edited by Prometeus (edited June 16, 2000).]

Ciao Prometeus

quote: the look of Roman Republican legions ( and some of iberian units ) was a little different from your images.

Mind to explain this a little bit? didn't get it, sorry.

quote: If you want to see them, just keep on whistling ( oviously you must read this "italianized" english: call me -> send me an e-mail ): i'll send my images to you.

Feel free to send anything you want to me. I'd like to see what an Italian had to say about the Roman Empire

quote: it's written in Italian language, so you may not be able to understand it

When was a problem for a Spaniard to understand Italian? (have you seen Gladiator?)

[Prometeus]

It seem to me i heard a whistle ...
ok, stop kidding !!!
First: the wrong helmet shape ( it's the IMPERIAL helmet you used in your scenario - for republican shapes, a great hint came from Polibius, the greek historician ).
Second: the PILUM shape ( the pointed spear was attached to a longer iron bar; this kind of spear, when it was hitting the enemy's shields, maked them useless by trepassing the surface - a few pilum hits, and even the most resistant shield became too heavy to wear, you understand ). It was created just in order to fight the ravaging Celtic hordes
( the most commen celtic shield was made of wood - i'm not so expert in english; i haven't an english dictionary under my right hand, so ... ok: pioppo-?, ontano-?, quercia-oak)
Third: the iberian shields were usually made of metals, ROUNDED, SMALL SHAPED ( another "celticized" design ) and PAINTED ( using always TWO COLORS and often - have you even seen the TV serial "Witches", the Doherty-Milano-Campbell weird stuff? - a kind of decoration called in Latin "trisceles" ).
Fourth: you missed the Roman veteran unit, the "triarius"; it was phalanx-like, carrying a very long spear and a big shield.

I have a picture of heavy Cathage's infantry, if you need some...
I'll send you the images. They are a bit bigger than Civ2 format, and still in BMP format, but i guess it makes no difference for you ...

[Prometeus]

In spite of what i said previously, it's a very well balanced scenario: nice shot, Sable !!! I wish my newcoming scenarios 'll be like this !!!! ( referring to the latest version, of course .. enough of bribing !!! )

P.S. I usually change a terrain into a new resource in order to perform another one more available in the scenario's area ( a fitting ex. TUNDRA for silver resource in MOUNTAIN Spanish peninsula ). i prefer silver because this mineral resource is often associated to other minerals, so this way i'm able to modify original TUNDRA resources ( ex. i can use them to perform lead or crystal gems ).

P.S. another hint - closely relating to my Britain scenario * i'm sending to you ( * a latest note: i was supposed to send - read below ).
In your ScoRead.txt file, you can add this note:
600 a.C. ( B.C. for english readers ) Gaelic Celtic tribes moved from Spain to Ireland.

My apologies
Stefan was true, at least in some ways: Uderzo'pictured helmet was the republican FINAL SHAPE, preluding to imperial Gladiator-style helmets. I have to apologyze, Stefan, but i made a little research so i have to add this brief note: their neck protection was much more shorter and lowered than imperial ones; anyway it begun more longer only after Caius Marius times, following his professional legionary reforms - so after the beginning of Spain conquest .

17/05/2000 - 05:00 AM Rome Main Time - To Sable - AAAARGGGHHHH, my Britain scenario!! Mannaggia !!! I find a corrupted file message: i lost ALL OF the files i have stored in , so there's only the very first untested version available now - without sounds - sorry ... i'll send you the first scenario i made about Roman Empire ( my fifth one, Oriente ). Check out Cardini's books if you want to be a "weaponry dragon" ( another italianization, sounds like " weaponry expert" )... what about Numidians?
Awww, it doesn't matter so much, "too much stuff turns quicly into bad stuff".

[This message has been edited by Prometeus (edited June 17, 2000).]