Well, I bought the game and here is my view on it

[Leonidas]

As most of you know I wasn't happy with the early release date of Civ3 nor with the items that were left out of it.

With that said, I saw that EB had some copies for sale, so I decided to try the game for myself (EB does have a 10 day return policy, so I had nothing to lose).

I have played for one hour so far, and here is my opinion (to date). I will continue my game and report back.

1) First my system: PII-350, 128 MB RAM, 16 MB Voodoo 3 2000 Video card, SoundBalster Live!, 19" monitor. Very basic system.

2) Install: It installed flawlessly in 7 minutes with the full 700 MB.

3) In the preference screen I turned off enemy animations (although they still animate in combat).

4) Initial impressions:

* beautiful 235 page manual - it will be a joy to read.

* it runs smoothly even on my system - but you can tell there's a lot going on behind the scenes.

* the music is pleasant, and the artwork is very nice. It has a very clean look about the interface. Even the chirping birds are OK

* Most things can looked at by right-mouse clicking.

* it's easy to navigate. The animations look very nice - especially during combat and when they assume the "fortified" position.

* saving my game took 3-4 seconds and took up 1.18 MB of space.

My only gripe so far is: I wish I could zoom in closer to have a look at those military units and cities, especially during combat. Firaxis PLEASE - if not in the next patch - then at least when the GOLD edition comes out - please include either a zoom function (to move in closer) or an 800x600 resolution. I want to feel closer to my civilization.

Currently, I am playing Germany at Regeant level, with 8 civs on a random map. The barbarians (in white) consistently make their appearance without being too much of a hassle.

It definitely has that one more turn feel. Oh, Sid you have done it again - you sucked me in. . .

With all that said, I will continue playing and let you know what I find out. The people who worked on this game, obviously put a lot of work into it. Shame on you Infogrames for forcing this game before everything was put into it. . .

To everyone - you have nothing to worry about - the civ tradition lives on. . . now where are those patches?

[Roland Ehnström]

I think you can zoom with the "Z" button, but I am not sure as I don't have the game myself yet.

Barbarians in white?!?

Peace!
-- Roland

[Stromprophet]

I have some questions real quick.

OK, they confirmed 12 scenarios with shipment, along time ago. I mean months ago. So Sid you lied to us??

Where the crap are they?

Second issue, why the hell won't my sound work? I can't play this game with no sound, it's too weird. My sound is working fine, I'm playing MP3's yet this game does not want to work with any sound?

Hmmmmmmmmmm. Need some help if anyone can help.

[me_irate]

I dont have the game yet but as for the sound problem let me give you a few sugestions. The first thing to do is this, On your taskbar at the bottom of your windows screen (far bottom right of screen to the oposite side of the"start button" you see that speaker magaphone looking thing, double click it. make sure the check box on your wave file thing is not checked and the volume is at least half. It is possible you have a different sound controler, i dont know your pc but do a simular check on it. Next check all of the menus in the game. In call2power2 i had problems with the 2 different sound control locations. One in a prefences during game play the other in the main menu. Whenever i started game without cd it allways turned the menu one off. So check all the in game locations possible. I know this probley didn't help much, but maybe someone with the game can help better. But those are the "dumb", "simple" things i always find that gives me probs.

[Stromprophet]

Yet again, I'm dissapointed, My sound is still not working. *This is pissing me off, because it works fine with my other games.

I go to play the Germans, my fav people, Panzar tanks, only an increased movement rate! Over a normal tank? Comeon, this is stupid, they should have a much higher attack than a normal tank and move faster.

Sid, look at a history book. Dear lord.

[Stromprophet]

Gwad, this is weird. The map building is kind of messed up, there are like no resources, and there are no huts anywhere in the game. Man. What is up.

[Simpleton]

Originally posted by Stromprophet

I go to play the Germans, my fav people, Panzar tanks, only an increased movement rate! Over a normal tank? Comeon, this is stupid, they should have a much higher attack than a normal tank and move faster.

I think a lot of things, including Panzer tanks, may not be modeled completely accurately in the interest of gameplay and play balance. I think this is a necessary evil with "historical" simulations.
By the way, if they come out with a patch that allows unit editing (which I'm told the will) you will be able to change the Panzer tank's stats to what you feel they should be. In fact, you may already be able to do that with the editor but since I don't have the game I can't be sure. Check it out!

[Rakki]

Historically speaking German panzers weren't that much better armed than their opponents - the "golden era" of the German blitzkrieg was when their innovative use of communications and combined arms allowed them to tear through the enemy lines and wreak havoc.

Later on, when German tanks developed a reputation for firepower (the mighty 88mm on the Tigers, and the 75mm on the Panther) the trade off was mobility - which wasn't that much of a problem since Germany was on the defensive anyway and good armour / deadly fiirepower was much more important.


So the Panzers having better mobility is ... rationalizable

[Faboba]

Originally posted by Leonidas


1) First my system: PII-350, 128 MB RAM, 16 MB Voodoo 3 2000 Video card, SoundBalster Live!, 19" monitor. Very basic system.

* it runs smoothly even on my system

Lenoidas - You've just made my day. My system is the exact same specs except my processor is a 1.4 Athlon.

[Leonidas]

Review Part II

I've been playing for about 5 hours now.

Impressions:

* there have been no crashes and the game continues to run smoothly. There is a slight jerkiness, but no real problem. I even turned on the animations for all units and it didn't slow my system down. I have a wheel mouse and you can even scroll the game screen with it. . .

* Be forewarned: the AI WILL attack you with a vengeance. It is very, very, very aggressive. Did I mention that the AI is aggressive? It's the turn-based game's equivalent of Command and Conquer's tank rush. I kid you not. The barbarians and British swarmed me. At one point, a single town of mine was attacked by no less than 8 horsemen. That poor pikeman - he earned his gruel that day, I can tell you. Although, he was probably slapping himself silly from not having any time off. Darned if I'll pay union wages. . .

However, by 390 AD, the AI basically handed my butt to me on a platter. . . it took over most of my major cities. My jaw dropped. . . I can't remember the last time that happend to me in a game of Civ2.

* When a worker is on a square you can't tell what he can do to improve the terrain. It would have been useful to be able to right click on the worker and then have a panel appear that highlighted the functions the worker could perform on that particular terrain. As it stands now you either have to guess or search through the civpedia for the info. Even so, after an hour or so, you kinda know what he can or can't do on the terrain.

* Rush building will cost you big time, and not just in cash. Rushing a job means over-working your labourers, and that means some of them will die. So if you try to rush build an improvement, then that city may lose a citizen.

* Diplomacy - so far I find it kinda under-whelming. I have only contacted two other civs - so it's still early early in the game - but there was no real interchange - they just kept demanding stuff - and the British went to war on the slightest provocation. What me? I'm sooooo peace-loving. . . The portraits are kinda small - I liked the full-screen figures in Civ2 better. But again - it's still early in the game.

Overall - I found the essential Civ experince is there in the core game. Everything else revolves around that essential core. However, there is very little "extra" included in the game - like wonder movies, real voices, dramatic opening movie, and even the diplomacy is kinda matter-of-fact.

For comparison, I would direct you to the game Shogun: Total War - Warlord Edition. Now THAT is a game. It definitely has the WOW factor.

I didn't find Civ3 had that WOW factor, probably because everything is a bit under-whelming, and kinda stripped to the core game.

I remember seeing the opening movie to SMAC for the first time and it drew me right into the game. There is nothing like that in this version of Civ3.

Also, there are NO included scenarios, and you cannot design any scenarios with the current editor, even though the game says you can. Another casualty to a rushed release.

Well, I'm starting over on a new game and I will continue reporting on my experiences right here in this thread. . .

[Simpleton]

Originally posted by Leonidas
Review Part II


However, by 390 AD, the AI basically handed my butt to me on a platter. . . it took over most of my major cities. My jaw dropped. . . I can't remember the last time that happend to me in a game of Civ2.

What level did you play this game on?

[Leonidas]

Hi - I'm playing on Regeant level which is the third highest difficulty level. At this level - supposedly you and the AI are on equal terms.

If you like aggressive AI and want a battle on your hands, then you have found it in Civ3.

Now that I know better, I'll be better prepared. "Captain of the guard! Prepare my mount. . ."

[Grunthex]

Originally posted by Leonidas

* When a worker is on a square you can't tell what he can do to improve the terrain. It would have been useful to be able to right click on the worker and then have a panel appear that highlighted the functions the worker could perform on that particular terrain. As it stands now you either have to guess or search through the civpedia for the info. Even so, after an hour or so, you kinda know what he can or can't do on the terrain.

Look at the little buttons at the bottom when it's your worker's turn. The only ones that show up are the ones he can perform.

[BeBro]

I´m really glad that the game itself is very good. Now since they have obviously done a great job on the gameplay, they need to do the same with mp support and better scn editing options...

[Zanzin]

Thanks for the info. Civ3 sounds like a pretty solid gamming experience.

Do you think they could have done more with it, given a few extra months?

[Leonidas]

Review part III

Well, I started another game at Regent level, playing as the Germans with 8 other civs on a normal Pangean map.

Observations:

* the manual fails to explain many key items (do I suspect the need to buy a strategy guide?) such as quelling resisters, terrain movement allowances, etc

* I found a bug - I wanted to upgrade my spearman to a swordsman but I repeatedly received the message that I had no spearmen to upgrade!

* What happened to the "new sophisticated diplomacy"? In my second game, I played 4, 690 years and have yet to be able to establish a single alliance, even though I bribe the buggers like crazy. Yet, they will go to war with me at the least provocation.

By the year 609 AD, almost all the civs were at war with me, and they attack me with ridiculous regularity. It's starting to feel more like a turn-based RTS game. But it gets boringggg real fast.

The other civs grow at an exponential rate and never seem to suffer any ill effects, while my civ is hit by every calamity, disease, rioting, and attacks from other civs. I like a challenge - but geessh... where's the play balance?

Like I mentioned before, it seems as though they stripped away a lot of the subtle features of the game like spies, caravans, real diplomacy, in favour of an all-out rush-battle type game. I am sure there are many who might prefer this "real time" style of playing - but it gets old real fast.

I was hoping to engage in some sophistcated diplomacy - forget it - it doesn't happen. The AI has been programmed to be very aggressive and it never lets up. And it looks like the AI civs are cheating like crazy...

Could this "hyper aggressiveness" be a cover for the lack of a decent AI to begin with? It's the same syle of aggressiveness that you find in games like Red Alert and other RTS games.

Anyway, I stopped this game as well - just boring - make unit - fight - make unit - fight. . . well, you get the idea.

Two games have basically ended the same way: the AI just gangs up on you. Other ways to win? Forget about it - if you aren't militarily strong - the AI will eat you alive. . .

Because of this - I see no difference between Civ 3 and Civ 2. I had far more diplomatic involvment in Civ2.

At this stage, Civ3 reminds me of a miniature (because of the resolution) version of Age of Empires, but without any of the charm of the AoE series of games.

It's getting hard for me to want to play another game. . .

The bugs need to fixed and this game needs to be properly playtested by dozens of people to tweak the AI and diplomacy properly. Civ3 has a great deal of potential. There is a lot to like about it, and I WANTED to like it. In a way I still do. Once all of the kinks are worked out of it, it wil be an awesome game. . .

Civ3 will be a an awesome game when it's released as the "Gold Edition" with all the patches, fixes, MP, etc. By then, there will be a plethora of scenarios as well.

Too bad this game was released before its time. . .

I'll keep playing a variety of games and let you know what I think about it. . .

Peace

[Boracks]

Interesting.

I have a game on the go as India and went from low on the tech list to first by diplomatic dealing. I have also aquired a city by culture (from the chinese) and rejected another (from the japanese who have a large border with me).

The AI does seem somewhat agressive but not as bad as the Zulus used to be. I'm just about to get out of the ancient era so should be able to build elite units soon. We'll see what happens when my military power starts ramping up.

[Peterk]

Leonidas,

I'm at 1690AD on a game at Prince level (similar to your settings) and I have yet to have one Civ declare war on me. Yes, they're annoying and aggressive and make demands like crazy, but they haven't been overly entusiastic about fighting. I think maybe you just got unlucky on who your neighbors were or you underestimated your civs strength and insulted them somehow in negotiating (failing to pay a tribute).

p.

[Leonidas]

Peterk: I have thought about that. Things actually started off pretty quiet. But I knew the AI was pretty aggressive so I built up my forces and was the first Civ to get Swordsman.

Then, they all ganged up on me - even though I built only military units, they still out produced me.

For example, when one of my cities finally reached 5, the Persians had a city of 12!

Even the barbarians attack with 8 horsemen

I could have been unlucky both times. Maybe the other civs don't like the Germans. I can't imagine why. . .

I purposely played on a normal Pangea map so I could see how the other civs interacted diplomatically with me. It wouldn't be much fun sitting on an island developing your civ all alone...

But the diplomacy wasn't very impressive - it seemed very standard to me. I hope I'm wrong. Maybe some others could post the results of some interesting diplomacy they have had. . .

[Vault Dweller]

I didn't find the AI too agressive. I didn't get into a fight until 1560, but then it was a doozy (can you say world war?) Everybody was pulled in due to diplomacy. I found it rather well done, bribes, trade deals, embargoes, and pacts were flying all over the place, and it was more than just throwing units uselessly and well defended cities. They were bombarding, pillaging, taking your people as slaves, and cutting off supplies. I got my ass handed to me when the persians stuck frigates at the mouth of a pass and cut off my saltpeter supply (NO MORE GUNPOWDER) After beating me down a bit i pleaded to let me live and then he made me pay REPARATIONS (tech that i had and a sum of gold per turn) after that the hostilities died down and we went back to how it was before (though it took alot to get rid of those damn embargoes). So I didn't find the AI too agressive but they use good tactics in combat.

[Satis5d]

Originally posted by Leonidas
Review part III

It's getting hard for me to want to play another game. . .

Peace

Since you won't be needing your copy any longer, I suggest you dispose of it by sending it directly to me.

While I enjoy AoE as well, I'll gladly take my chances with CivIII.

[Leonidas]

Vault Dweller: hearing about your experience and the way you described your World War, makes me want to jump back into another game (but not as the Germans)

Satis5d: LOL - nice try

But it's for playtesting only

[Zoetstofzoetje]

Once all of the kinks are worked out of it, it wil be an awesome game. . .

Exactamundo..

My view:

I am playing the game on a Pentium 2-266, Geforce 2 MX, 128mb ram and it works like a charm. I have to wait half a second whenever I enter a city or enter the advisor screens, but that's just it. Oh yes and I'm playing it on regent level.

I've been playing the game for 30 hours now (yep, one more turn!) so I think I know what I'm talking about.

The AI is plain stupid.

Why, you may ask? (good question! )

-When AI captures one of my workers it sends it home in a random way, regardless of where my units are. Let's say he could have easily evaded my units by entering square 1, 2 or 3. He couldn't care less. Moreover, he could have protected the worker by keeping it stacked below the pikeman who just "liberated" it. Uhhuh.

-The AI doesn't care much about taking the higher grounds. He'll plant your troops right where you can easily attack them instead of planting them on the mountain right next to the city he is about to attack (or so he thinks ) Same point is valid for combat not involving attacks on a city (in the bush-bush)

-Do you want to get that naughty enemy unit away from that certain square? I have an excellent sharkbait strategy for you! Just put a worker next to it... He won't be able to resist it. Combined with the first point I made you can thus make him leave a certain spot, get your worker back (although it's probably not yours anyway ) and whoop his ass as you just made him move away from hills or a jungletile.

But wait, there's more! It's amazing Mike!

-Need some extra time to fortify that certain city? Let's say you have a warrior (1-1-1) inside your city, fortified. And there's this dastardly swordsman just waiting outside for the booty. Send out a worker and make him magically dissuade from making an obvious victory.

If you thought that was all, think again! You get these wonderful bugs for free with your order!

-A civ that wants to expand will place it on that one tile where your borders -just- don't reach it. It's -Very- irritating to have to kick their butts of my continent every 15 turns. Surprisingly enough, they name the city the same every time!

-If you're military superior to another civilization you can make war with it, take over 1 city, make it sign a peace treaty in which it gives you plenty of Euro's, a tech if he has one you don't have, his world map, 2 or 3 workers and if you really stepped on his toe even a small town. Then, let your units heal for a turn, put 'em in front of the next city, the civ will ask you to leave, you say you will in a instant, you "sneak"attack him, take over the city, sign a peace treaty, etc. etc. etc. Makes me kinda sad... It seems to me the only 'moods' a civ can be in vs. the player are furious, cautious and polite. The AI doesn't seem to remember that you're absolutely not trustworthy. Good for me err?

I haven't seen it happen yet, but if the AI would prefer to free a worker instead of taking over an empty city I think I would be capable of throwing a tomatoe into orbit in such a way that it would land on Sid's head, out of pure frustration. This is what happens when you have to rush a game. Forced labour makes citizens unhappy, just check the Civilopedia! :P

I'm getting the feeling the game cheats on regent as well. I can't prove it, but an enemial archer preferred to walk upwards towards my city which was empty for a turn, and when I filled it up again a turn later it resumed it's original deathwish course towards my pikeman. Thing is that civ was unable to see the city at all. Could have been something else though. Some random movement generator, just to make it look intelligent or something. :P

Oh and there's the advisor messages who seem to know what military size's other civ's have I have only just met. Spooky. Some of them seem to address me differently all the time. And there's the obvious bad english. don't quote me on this but I can recall something like "I don't know we should trust them".

What I see is an uncut diamond. Give or take a few months, the boys at Firaxis can make it shine.

Although I donnot believe in any kind of god, I will pray every night, for a hacker with angel wings, descending from the internet cloud, to hexedit the .exe so I can finally "Win friends and conquer people" as the civ3.com site is still advertising.

It shouldn't be that hard, right? I mean, pretty much all the MP code should be in there already, waiting to be unleashed. If they are going to patch it, the patch should be as small as possible and thus most of it is in it already, right?

One last question... what 'key' do I need to press to upgrade? Can't find it between any of the commands... And I can't locate the Top5 and such w/o the F keys either

-Zoetstofzoetje

[Leonidas]

Zoe:

To upgrade: Shift + "U" (but I couldn't get any of my units to upgrade - game kept telling me I didn't have any to upgrade).

The advisors are found by clicking on the third button in the top left-hand corner.

[dainbramaged13]

WTF leo.. i love the diplomacy! im only in the middle ages, and if you hvae a bunchof culture and a significant military, then you can have very 'advanced' diplomacy. I contact the other civs like once every other two turns. And im not even trading too much yet...!
i always request money, etc... right of passage.. the diplomacy is my favorite part!

[Dan Magaha FIRAXIS]

Originally posted by Leonidas
Zoe:

To upgrade: Shift + "U" (but I couldn't get any of my units to upgrade - game kept telling me I didn't have any to upgrade).

The advisors are found by clicking on the third button in the top left-hand corner.

All the advisors are also available via the function ("F1".. "F12") keys as well. In many cases you can pull up the advisors this way when you're in the middle of diplomacy or doing other things, too.


Dan

[Leonidas]

DB: What level, civ and map are you playing on? I was hoping to get farther in the game so I could sample the diplomacy - but the other civs have arranged it so I could not advance - way too aggressive.

I may have to play at a lower level and on a larger map so I have some time to get into the later years - but it sounds like a boring way to play.

How about more specifics?

[Boracks]

Well, I'm now building war elephants and seem to be getting more respect, diplomatically. But then there's England, whom I have no way of physically contacting, who have declared war on me and refuse to stop even though I haven't seen an English unit of any type in 15 turns.

Other than that, I'm still positive on the game.

[donarumo]

Hey Zoe, it seems to are basing your opinion of the AI based on one or two games. My experience with the AI was completely different. Not only did they seem to remember past battles and times when I tried to mess with them, they also were able to cut off my resources and attempt to gang up against me. The AI is great in my opinion, far more intelligent on a harder difficulty level than CivII.

Maybe you need to give the game a couple of tries on a more difficult level to really enjoy the challenge. Of course there will always be ways around what the AI is doing. This is a STRATEGY game and thus the point (in part) is to find a stratregy that will win. This does not mean the same strategy would work under different circumstances though.

[Leonidas]

Review Part IV

Well, I decided to try another game using different criteria. This time I'm playing as the British, on a huge, tropical island world, with 5 other civs on Warlord.

I wanted to experience Civ3's gameplay without the AI automatically jumping on me.

Observations:

* Currently I'm in the year 1250 AD. I started building on a very large tropical island with just a few barabarians. No other civs were present. This was fun, I must tell you. I started the game at 4:00 in the afternoon, and I pulled myself away at 3:00 am

* I loved exploring the island, clearing the jungles, building roads, improvements, discovering the techs, etc. It was like I was the only civ in the world, and I was building Utopia. Even the sounds of the birds were perfect for the setting.

* One thousand years past when I discovered the outside world had invaded my little world - the dreaded Persians had set up camp in the jungle at one corner of MY island. My immediate response was to gather my "MIGHTY ARMY" and drive the infidel from paradise. I almost did, but the mighty Persian King's words were laced with an ominous tone (plus he was way more advanced than I was). So I decided to win over this town through Culture, and immediately set up nearby cities and surrounded his borders with my troops. Ever so slowly my culture is advancing on this foreign interloper, and soon. . . it will all be mine. . .

* Ahem. . . *clears throat*

Yes, the game does draw you in. . . it is a Civ game and it should do that. But there are still many minor annoyances that could easily have been caught and fixed with proper beta testing. This is annoying because at the heart of this product IS A GREAT GAME. But it needs some major work, as you all know.

* For example: when cities go into disorder, the game will not pause at each one and let you fix them initially (like in Civ 2). Instead, you must wait until it is your time to actually move, and you can easily forget that a city is in disorder (especially if you have alot of cities). This is a big step backward from Civ 2 IMHO.

* There is no sequence for unit selection when the game moves from unit to unit - it can jump all over the place, meaning that you could wind up moving a unit you had no intention of moving. BTW - is there an "undo" button? I have been unable to find anything in the manual.

* Also, roads and borders can be very hard to distinquish in the jungle - you have to do a lot of squinting. . .

* I am having a pleasant experience playing this time. I want to get to the modern era and engage in more diplomacy with the other civs. This is actually fun, despite the very obvious things that are wrong.

* I won't rehash all the things that were left out of this game, or the things that could have been easily corrected in a wider beta testing. But the core game IS fun. That's why I shake my head as to the state in which this game was released: it could have been soooo much more. . .

Anyway, I will continue with this game and report back faithfully to you all. . .

Your servant